KA Problem, Dilemma, Aargh!!!

[Wart]

Some may remember my thread posted at the beginning of this year (08) about my KA Pro 5 , Refresher:

I bought a KA Pro 5 (450 watt 5 qt lift bowl) in November of '07. When I first started it the mixer made a 'burr on gear' noise, around January~February it made tick-tick noises on occasion, then on occasion it would make the motor overheat varnish burn smell (actually smelled worse) and finally around March it started making high speed bearing whirr noises, and mayhaps a few more noises.

I called KA in March or April and had a replacement a day or two later.

NEW:

Around April or May ends my cooking season so this replacement has seen little use. I may have ran 30~40 pounds of flour through it as bread dough, all batches less than 40 ounces (54~57 ounce cap machine).

Two days ago I was doing a batch of bread and the machine started making a "cog stubbing/stoke' noise, I mean a serious BANG BANG BANG. I called KA and ran the machine , it made the noise but not as loud. More on this call follows.

Whats interesting is, I was whipping egg whites for a meringue and the noise came back with a vengeance. Basically running under no load conditions and shes a banging away. WOW!

To be fair, this machine started clanking on a larger batch of dough, I usually do 20~22 ounces water and 34~38 ounces flour, this time I used 25 ounces water and 45~48 ounces flour. The dough was still wet. 48 ounces is the machines capacity assuming 4 ounces per cup, but flour weighs 4.5~4.75 ounces per cup. This mixer grenaded the first time I operated the machine near it's designed and specified capacity. {grit teeth}


Heres the Dilemma, and I hope I get it out so it makes sense:

Two machines in less than a year and the second going bad pulling light duty. I can see continuing to break machines. Pretty much I'm looking at free machines for life?

In talking to KA Customer Service the subject was brought up of upgrading to a Pro 600 (575 watt 6 quart lift bowl) for $80. Should I? The $80 isn't a big deal, my fears are:

1) The 5 quart is just about too big for small stuff like 2~3 egg white meringues, the 6 quart may be too big for small jobs (I know about the 3 Qt bowl). This is the least of it.

2) IF I stick with a 5 quart machine I see replacing the mixer once a year for ... who knows how long? And:

2a) If I stay with the 5 quart I may get a 'good' one that may actually last ... all of a year and a day (out of warranty). So much for a life time mixer, leading to:

3) I'm afraid of getting a decent Pro 600 that lasts .... a year and a day. I have read reviews where the 600 does not seem that much better than what I've experienced with the Pro 5.

4) The 600 has a bigger bowl so it may be less stressed (but the thought of 'less stressed making it last a day over warranty' keeps rearing it's ugly head).

And I'm spinning in circles here.

If I stayed with cakes and cookies and such I bet breaking machines wouldn't be a problem, BUT I mostly use this mixer for bread doughs, 2 batches a week, two full size loaves per batch. And I'm not using bread flour, I'm using Gold Metal AP.

Just looking for input, maybe there is another way I should be looking at this. Or maybe I'm looking for some commiseration over being suckered into buying one of these machines by the KA reputation (that Whirlpool seems bent on destroying).

Or mayhaps I'm writing this as a warning. People wanting to lay out good money for a new mixer may do better by looking elsewhere.



So I'm talking to Customer Service telling her what was the plan for theday, 2 loaves, 2 pies, a batch of Chinese cookies ... Then it occurs what I'm saying so I add, Yes, I'm a Man, no, really, I am! .... then she makes the upgrade for $80 offer and I say I have to ask my wife ...

 

[Adillo303]

Is a hand mixer out of the question for small jobs?

Is a different mixer out of the question for bread dough, Such as the electrolux, thhat seem born for bread.

At any rate you have to replace this one.

Are parts available for the mixers? They look pretty simple. If you outlast warranty, Whap a new gear set in and go on with life.

Does Hobart still make something in this size range?

Just a few ideas. I would take the upgrade and a hand mixer for the little stuff. Cheapest out.

AC

 

[justplainbill]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like your working the machine pretty hard. We make 72 ounce batches of bread ( 6 loaves of 12 oz. ea.). That requires 30 - 31 oz of water and about 48 oz. of flour and 8 oz. of biga. Guess we'll continue doing it by hand. One year warranty seems pretty chintzy.

 

[Wart]

Is a hand mixer out of the question for small jobs?

I have used hand mixers and some were good , for hand mixers. But I've never really liked hand mixers mostly because of ... ahem ... coordination problems,

I have a Sunbeam Heritage, nice beater mixer.

Is a different mixer out of the question for bread dough, Such as the electrolux, thhat seem born for bread.

In looking around I have come across Electrolux, Braun and Viking.

If another mixer HAS TO BE BOUGHT I will be looking at those.

Are parts available for the mixers? They look pretty simple. If you outlast warranty, Whap a new gear set in and go on with life.

Working on it is no problem.

Parts are $$$$.

Does Hobart still make something in this size range?

Yes, the N50.

$1,500? $2,000?

We're not broke but neither are we rich.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like your working the machine pretty hard. We make 72 ounce batches of bread ( 6 loaves of 12 oz. ea.). That requires 30 - 31 oz of water and about 48 oz. of flour and 8 oz. of biga. Guess we'll continue doing it by hand. One year warranty seems pretty chintzy.

Funny you write that.

I don't disagree with your statement of my working the machine hard.

First thing I made was the baguettes from the KA recipe. I blew the bowl off the machine. Their recipe and their proportions.

And the KA ratio for white bread is 16W / 30F, mine is 20W /32W.

I figured using a wetter mix and staying well under their max parameters would be Ok. Apparently not.

 

[Michael in FtW]

I've got a Pro 6 - about 5-6 years old .... made two loaves of whole wheat bread (4 cups bread flour - 3 cups whole wheat) almost every week since I got it. The Pro 600 is even more powerful.

You can upgrade for $80 and get another year's warranty (and a stronger mixer) - or you can toss your investment and start over from scratch.

Don't know if you followed the instructions regarding the mixing speed - or using the dough hook vs the flat beater.

 

[jpmcgrew]

When making bread dough your are not supposed to go any higher than the #2 setting on your KA.

 

[Wart]

You can upgrade for $80 and get another year's warranty (and a stronger mixer) - or you can toss your investment and start over from scratch.

Not into tossing it and starting over.

Don't know if you followed the instructions regarding the mixing speed - or using the dough hook vs the flat beater.

I can see how someone could get the mixing speed wrong,

Not sure how someone could try using the beater in place of the spiral hook ... I'm sure they exist, just not in this house.

 

[Wart]

When making bread dough your are not supposed to go any higher than the #2 setting on your KA.

Or lower than 2.

Sticker on the hook says "Use speed 2 only, see instruction manual, 9705509 rev B".

 

[luvs]

i'd call them until i got a boss. williams-sonoma sent me a new mixer after mine arrived scratched. $360 fer mine, i unabashedly complained to them!!

 

[Wart]

I'm not looking to buy a KA, I'm looking at upgrading to the bigger machine.

 

[Leolady]

If you can't afford a new Hobart N-50, I'd get a good used one!

LOL! They go anywhere from $300 to 600 on Ebay. They will last forever!

 

[Russellkhan]

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but if you do decide to give up on KA, consider an Electrolux DLX. It is an amazing mixer for bread dough. I got mine when I gave up on my KA. I had the 4.5 qt model KA, which was fine for years until I began making bread. It sounded like it was straining anytime I tried making WW dough (single loaves - less than 1 lb of flour). I once tried making a three loaf batch of white bread and the dough climbed the hook and got itself into the greasy thing that the hook connects to. I had to throw out the portion that touched the grease and finish the kneading by hand.

With my DLX, I have made batches with up to 3 lbs of WW flour and the DLX handles it beautifully. I have heard of others making batches of up to 8 lbs of flour. The DLX is a more expensive machine (though less so than a Hobart) and it is different enough that it requires learning a new way of working with a mixer, but I believe it is worth it.

 

[Wart]

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but if you do decide to give up on KA, consider an Electrolux DLX.

About the only way I'm going to give up totally on KA is if (when?) I smoke it after it goes out of warranty.

I'm already shopping for my next mixer and the Electrolux is at the top of the 'look into' list.

(My KA) sounded like it was straining anytime I tried making WW dough (single loaves - less than 1 lb of flour).

Thats the (a) thing, I believe kneading doughs is the hardest thing to do with a mixer. I got this to knead doughs.

I once tried making a three loaf batch of white bread and the dough climbed the hook and got itself into the greasy thing that the hook connects to. I had to throw out the portion that touched the grease and finish the kneading by hand.

Yes, dough climbing the hook is what has me thinking the 'flour power' rating of 12 cups for the 5 quart mixer is highly optimistic on KAs part.

I max out at 40 ounces of flour, which is at the most 10 cups. more like 9. But usually 8. The dough climbs the hook. Its easy enough to keep the dough in the bowl and off the upper hook with a flexible spatula. Count of flinging a spatcula or two till the hang of it has been gotten.

Maybe that's why these machines failed, I'm making it knead all the dough.

The DLX is a more expensive machine (though less so than a Hobart) and it is different enough that it requires learning a new way of working with a mixer, but I believe it is worth it.

Yep, The Lux is on the list.

The N-50 ... .... If I find one at auction (not eBay) it will probably be mine. I would need an 'impulse bidding' thing to hide behind, it's size would put it on the outs with Wife, much like my coffee shop coffee grinder, huge, she still dislikes it and keeps after me to get rid of it.

>>>>>

I went for the upgrade.

 

[Leolady]

You might also try a used restaurant supply store for your N-50. I got loads of bargains there.

That is where I found my Robot Coupe food processor, maple butcher block table, huge copper candy kettle, and loads of other great stuff real cheap.

I saw many great Hobart mixers, but I didn't need the huge 12 qt and up ones [although I did buy a 10qt C-100 for my church].

I would not buy a DLX because of all the plastic. And besides, as far as durability I would worry cause I never heard of them being able to be used in a commercial application. To me, that is the litmus test, if a commercial kitchen would not use it, then it probably isn't long lived for the money.

 

[Michael in FtW]

Wart - if you have a problem with the dough climbing the hook - there are a couple of things you can do. One is to oil the hook before you start. The other trick is how quickly you get all of the ingredients into the bowl - a dough that is too wet will climb the hook ...

I sometimes have to stop the mixer 1-2 times and pull the dough down off the hook and then continue.

 

[vmaxkevin]

I'm glad this hasn't turned into a KA love fest! I had a Pro 600 and it always looked like it was straining, until it blew the transmission cover, mixing pizza dough. I replaced the plastic transmission cover with the aluminum they make now, but unfortunately the damage was in the transmission too. The next purchase was a Viking Pro 700. It disappointed right out of the box. I've only had it a week, but it will be boxed up and returned in a couple of days. The machine simply cannot make bread dough in any capacity. The recipe that comes in the owners manual makes a glue type substance that pools at the bottom of the bowl. When flour is added to thicken it up (This is white all-purpose flour at less than half of the machines rated capacity) so it looks like bread dough, the strain on all the parts is evident. When left for more than a couple of minutes the catch releases popping the unit up in the air with a spinning dough hook. We have had debates about this with others and they say we should change our bread recipe. Our 12 year old bread maker makes bread dough weekly (for years), in the same volume as we expected the Viking Pro to do. Clearly the recipe couldn't be at fault. Maybe these things are that finnicky, I don't know. The KA lasted about a year. The Viking was useless out of the box. Maybe 2 or 3 breadmakers is the way to go. They seem to handle bread dough like nothing else. They are limited by batch size unfortunately.

 

[Russellkhan]

About the only way I'm going to give up totally on KA is if (when?) I smoke it after it goes out of warranty.

I can understand that. You've already got money in the money, thjat money shouldn't be thrown away. Mine was years out of warranty before I even began baking bread (the only thing mine ever had any problem with). I gave up on it before it died because that allowed me to pass it on to a (non-bread-baking) friend while it was still useful. (OK, maybe that was an excuse to buy myself a DLX, but allow me my delusions).

I'm already shopping for my next mixer and the Electrolux is at the top of the 'look into' list.

Glad to hear it. I can't recommend that machine enough.

I went for the upgrade.

Congrats, I hope it works out for you (or if it doesn't, I hope it at least fails enough times during warranty to make saving up for a DLX easier)

 

[Russellkhan]

I would not buy a DLX because of all the plastic.

What plastic? The roller and scraper? Have you ever even been in the same room as a DLX? The whole machine feels like a solid piece of metal.

 

[justplainbill]

What plastic? The roller and scraper? Have you ever even been in the same room as a DLX? The whole machine feels like a solid piece of metal.

19 pounds is solid? KA 6 quart is supposed to weigh 27 pounds.

 

[Leolady]

I think we have a DLX dealer!