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Old 02-09-2006, 08:34 PM   #41
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Then what you're saying, SpiceUmUp, is that K'Aid mixers used nylon gears even back when Hobart made them, hey? Wouldn't have known it. I thought that they were metal back then. Guess I never really pushed the mixer to the limit. Not that I ever planned to.

I imagine that good common sense and regular use according to the instruction manual has kept the mixer in good standing all these years! Also staying within the means of proper use and no torture.

I once had an Oster Kitchen Center, which had necessitated using speed 10 (highest speed) for making dough. It was the very first machine that allowed me to make dough. But it was kind of noisy at that speed ( it was normal).

I also once had a 5-qt. Kenwood which also allows dough making. That one, along with Delonghi and Viking also have overload protection for the motor.


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Old 02-09-2006, 09:07 PM   #42
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I bake breads very nearly every single weekend. I get a wonderful smooth dough in 4-5 minutes at the number two setting.
Brioche is not like normal dough. The ratio of butter to flour starts at 1:3 for the leanest brioche, and can go as high as 1:1. When you knead brioche, you are not going for that typical bread dough consistency. You basically have to beat the butter into the dough at high speed. At first, it will be a sticky mess, but somewhere around the 10-15 minute mark, something magical happens, and it goes from sticky mass to silky smooth and it miraculously starts cleaning the sides and bottom of the bowl.

I do not know if it is possible to reach this consistency at level two, but I do know that Pierre Herme expressly tells you to beat the dough at medium high speed.

As for my second stand mixer, it is still in good shape, and has served me well for two years. You may not think that two years is a long time, but two years in my kitchen is like 10 in most people's. From bagels to brioche to buttercream, that mixer has had more experience in two years than most get in a lifetime. I am going to bring it to my parents' house in Montreal, and it will be there for me when I visit, especially for when I cook for their dinner parties. This way, I'll have a real mixer wherever I am. Maybe I can even retire my little Sunbeam hand mixer, which seems not long for this world (one of the beaters just falls out when you switch it on, lol)
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:12 PM   #43
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I am aware the Kenwood mixers have a thermal overload. The second Kenwood I bought (a DeLonghi) failed after 5 minutes in its first use out of the box when the themal overload shut the red hot motor down. I finished the bread dough I was making by moving the bowl, hook and all to my other Kenwood mixer. It had no problems.

The customer service rep told me there was nothig she could do but if I drove the unit 45 miles to a service center and I would have to pay for the labor but the parts were covered by warranty. Gee what sports on a 5 minute old mixer.

My two other Kenwood mixers, an 8 year old Rival Select and a 1957 Kenwood both work perfectly, love to use them in fact. The Rival has a much better dough hook than the orginal KA C hook. The newer spiral hook is the best on the market. The original Kenwood hook from the 1950's is awful and nearly useless.

Of the 36 mixers I own and use, the 7 KA's are my favorites and the 2 Kenwoods are a close second. In my opionion the Osters are Junk. The early Sunbeans are nearly impossible to kill, I have one from 1932 that runs flawlessly. I also like my old Hamilton Beach and Dormeyer mixers, but more as items of art than as useful kitchen tools.

I would think that as the Brioche dough is so much softer than a typical bread dough that it would be quite safe to run at a higher speed. You can always go to www.forum.kitchenaid.com and ask
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:18 AM   #44
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Wow!!

Where in the world do you keep all those mixers? I even see some in the other room.

Looks like you also have the first K'Aid mixer and I cleary see the Hobart N50.
And how do you find time to use them all? Do you use one or two a week?
What's your secret?

Oster and Sunbeam are supposedly the same co. now. And I DO remember the K'Aid 4C mixer. I think it was discontinued sometime during the early to mid '70s. That one, I think, wasn't a dough maker. It only came with one beater

I, too, onc had a Hamilton Beach stand mixer, but it was an elcheapo model and it wasn't a dough maker.

I was very tempted to buy the K5SS at Filene's about two weeks ago, but backed off. Now it's gone! Should have gotten it anyway to pair it up with my K45SS Classic.

We use the Hobart mixers at the Culinary Arts course yesterday to make cookie dough. Those gards are a nuisence to put back on after being washed!

Twenty years ago, they didn't have those. OHSA enforced the rule that they must be on there as a safety precaution, I guess. The mixers won't come on unless they are in place and in the front covering the bowl. The chef told us that everyone is sue-happy now.
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:34 PM   #45
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I use the following Mixers with some regularity:
KA Pro 6 (about every weekend)
KA Pro 5+(about every weekend)
Kenwood (Rival Select, about once a month)
KA Ultrapower (my first mixer, about once or twice a year)

The rest I use once in a while. When I buy them I clean them up and use them first chance I get, usualy for cake or cookie batter or for mashed potatoes. The older mixers from Sunbeam and Hamilton-Beech can not handle dough, nor can the KA 3B, 3C and 4C mixers.

The 1957 Kenwood I have can make bread dough but the hook is so poorly shaped it is not very good at it.

I use the KA Pro5+ for making most of the breads, the spiral hook is very good. I also use the Pro6 for bread but less often than I used to. I am still restoring the KA H-5, the big beast in the back of the pictures (yes the first model Hobart made for the home) so I have not yet made breads with it. I will as soon as I restore the elctrical wireing to it and it is safe to use.

I sold the N-50 and replaced it with a Chrome KA Model G. I am now on the prowl for a KA Model F and Model R and I want a Hobart 10 or 12 qt. I am also looking to sell some of the sunbeam mixers (I have several duplicates) to finance the purchase of some more mixers.
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:38 PM   #46
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I'm going to add to your knowledge, at least for those of you who aren't trained in electricity and electric motors.

Modern appliances that have motors almost always have thermal overload protection. The reason for this is simple. Electro-magnetic energy turns the rotor of the motor. Current flows through wire windings on the rotor, creating a magnetic field that reacts with stationary magnets attached to the inner sides of the motor. The beauty of an electric motor is that for a given setting, it will attempt to maintain a constant speed. It does this automatically.

Here's how it works. When a motor is turning, it creates an electrical current called back EMF (electro-motive force) that works against the electrical current supplied by the internal power suplly. This back EMF limits the amount of current that can flow through the windings. The faster the motor spins, the greater the back EMF. When you load the motor, or make it work, this slows the motor speed and more current is allowed to flow through the windings. This creates stronger magnetic fields which try to keep the motor speed constant.

When you severely slow, or stall (stop it completely with power applied) it, maximum current is allowed to flow through the windings. And as wires are not perfect conductors, running current through them creates heat energy. If the windings become too hot, the insulating sheath that prevents electrical shorts between the wires either burns off or melts. In both cases, the rotor windings short out against themselves, ruining the motor.

The thermal safety switch is supposed to prevent this occurance by disrupting power before permanent damage occurs.

A motor's power rating is directly affected by its ability to dissipate heat, and by the thickness and conductivity of the wire used to build it. The thicker the wire, and more conductive it is, the more power it can safely handle.

So when you put in a stiff dough that requires 15 pounds of torque to effectively mix it, and you have a motor capable of providing only a 10 lbs.of torque, you will burn up the motor. And that's why there is a gearbox. By using appropriate gears, a smaller motor can deliver more work (torque). And just like in your car, the most powerful gears turn the end torque producing mechanism (in you car, the drive wheels, in your mixer, the dough hook or mixer attachment) more slowly. That is why the slower speeds have more mixing power.

In the case of the mixer that burned up after 5 minutes, the thermal switch had to have been defective, or it would have shut down power to the rotor windings before damage occured. And if your mixer does turn off from thermal overload, let it cool, and choose a slower speed. Don't try to make your machine do work it was not designed to do. If you do, then you will damage it.

And nylon gears perform the same funtion as a shear pin. They break and are fairly inexpensive to manufacture and replace compared to the motor parts.

Hope I didn't go too deep in the explanation, and that it helps you understand your mixer a bit better.

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Old 02-10-2006, 05:52 PM   #47
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Actually, the issue with the one the "burned up" is the motor got HOT under a very light load. THe thermal protection worked. It shut off the unit. But there was absolutly no reason for the unit to have gotten that hot in less than five minutes of mixing bread dough. The fact that I finished the dough in a nearly identical mixer is proof enough of that.
As for all the rest: I just stick the prongy thingies in the hole in the wall and throw the switch
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:35 PM   #48
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You did it, SpiceUmUp. You made me jealous (heh, heh. just kidding).

I went back to Filene's after class, looked to make sure that they were really out of the K'Aid K5SS, like I thought they were and they still had some of them left, so I bought one!

I think it was your complete showcase of vintage and present model mixers that you have in thos pics that made me go back there and look for it.

I'll try it out sometime this weekend. You've inspired me to want to try it. Thanks!!


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Old 02-11-2006, 11:23 AM   #49
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In case anyone is interested, I just took my Pro 600 for a run. I am quite impressed with its power. The brioche was silky smooth and cleaning the sides and bottom of the bowl in about 3 minutes at level 4. My old 300 w mixer needed about 12 minutes to get to that point, at maximum power. Though I guess, in fairness, my old mixer never really achieved maxium speed; in reality, the dough was probably limiting it to speed 4 or 6 anyway.

The new mixer performed rather well. Not only did it get the job done in about 1/4 the time, it only became slightly warm, and did not move at all. My old mixer would heat up and be rattling around the table. There was even a danger of it falling off!

My only complaint was that my new mixer experienced some slight wobbling of the bowl. It wasn't enough to do any harm, just sort of a big vibration. I attribute this to what I perceive to be an inherent instability to the way in which the bowl is secured to the mechanism. While the combination of the two sides screws and securing the bowl to the bracket from behind makes things more or less stable, it is the bare minimum, and nowhere near as secure as the screw-in bottom design of the tilt head mixers, where the bottom of the bowl screws tightly into the bottom of the mixer.

I am not impressed with this crank lift system. I find it to be awkward and unwieldly compared to the more elegamnt tilt head system. It just seems to be overly complicated, with no apparent advantage that my admittedly non-expert eyes can detect. It is less stable, less practical in terms of giving you room to change attachments, and more likely for something to go wrong, since it seems to have so many more components to it.

Why does Kitchenaid use this awkward system for its high end mixer, rather than the tilt head it uses for its lower end models? I don't get it, what is the advantage?
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonr
I am not impressed with this crank lift system. I find it to be awkward and unwieldly compared to the more elegamnt tilt head system. It just seems to be overly complicated, with no apparent advantage that my admittedly non-expert eyes can detect. It is less stable, less practical in terms of giving you room to change attachments, and more likely for something to go wrong, since it seems to have so many more components to it.

Why does Kitchenaid use this awkward system for its high end mixer, rather than the tilt head it uses for its lower end models? I don't get it, what is the advantage?
The primary advantage of the lift bowl is the more ridged connection between the base and the head of the mixer. With the lift bowl, there is less flexing of the head and thus more of the energy is transmited to the bowl.

The bowl has always proven plenty secure for me. I always had problems with the KA tilt head mixers because the latch would vibrate forward and release the head. Most people find that after using the lift bowl mixer a few times that they prefer it over the tilt head. I find it very easy to drop the bowl, change the attachment, lift the bowl and go. I also find that with the wider bowl of the Pro series mixers (6, 600 and 5+) that I don't need the pour shield and that makes it easier still to change attachments. Another reason for the lift bowl vs the tilt head is height. The larger mixers with a tilt head would be too tall for many people when the head is in the UP position.

I would not be concerned with durability. It is the same design as my mid 1920's Model G and it has held up very well for about 80 years. It is also the prefered design for comercial grade mixers.

I find that while the bowl is held very ridged in the tilt head mixers, it is more than offset by the flexing of the head in relation to the base. I have the same issue with my Kenwood mixer. To much flexing.
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