Fry Pans: Aluminum Vs 3-ply Sst

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black chef

Senior Cook
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
383
i've got a question...

when i sear my steaks in my aluminum fry pan, the pan gets super hot, and the steak is seared WITHOUT lots of smoke.

but when i sear my steaks in my member's mark fry pan (tri-ply, all-clad knock-off), i smoke-up the entire kitchen, set off smoke alarms, etc.

... same stove, same setting on the gas burner, both steaks at 1-1/4 inches thick.

i'm an engineer that SHOULD know why this is happening, but i can't explain it.

what is going-on here?
 
shape of pan (size of sides) size of pan, thickness of pan, type of aluminum...anodized or polished, silverstone or raw etc. purhaps the surface causes one to seal up faster than the other, thuis less fat oozing thus less smoke. I find I have less smoke and grease splatter when using the carbon steel French fry pans than with any other. go figure.
 
Robo410 said:
shape of pan (size of sides) size of pan, thickness of pan, type of aluminum...anodized or polished, silverstone or raw etc. purhaps the surface causes one to seal up faster than the other, thuis less fat oozing thus less smoke. I find I have less smoke and grease splatter when using the carbon steel French fry pans than with any other. go figure.

in terms of generating smoke, i'd say i get THE MOST FROM;

1. cast iron
2. tri-ply design
3. deBuyer French carbon steel
4. aluminum (polished)

wow, i just realized that i have 4 different types of fry pans.:ohmy:
 
You clearly you take great pride in being an engineer. My personal experience is that debate with engineers is useless so here is one thought offered without any defense or intention of elaboration.

Aluminum heats fast but it cools fast too. A cold steak is fairly effective at cooling the temperature of the metal. Hence less smoke.

I'd love to eat with you buddy, but not interested in arguing.
 
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skilletlicker said:
You clearly you take great pride in being an engineer. My personal experience is that debate with engineers is useless so here is one thought offered without any defense or intention of elaboration.

Aluminum heats fast but it cools fast too. A cold steak is fairly effective at cooling the temperature of the metal. Hence less smoke.

I'd love to eat with you buddy, but not interested in arguing.

:LOL: guess what? both steaks were at room temperature. i ALWAYS bring them to room temp. before searing.

btw, this is "discuss" cooking, not "arguing with engineers.":ROFLMAO:
 
How do I always get sucked into this?

You guys always sound like you're going to be reasonable but it never works out that way. The difference between 40F and 70F isn't that great compared to maybe 400F of the frying pan surface. The difference in surface pan surface temp. between aluminum and cast iron, in contact with a 12 oz. rib eye on one side and a medium burner on the other, would probably be pretty impressive, but you have to be an engineer to have that data.

The Grizzlies game has started so I gotta go.
 
From an engeneering technologist, cast iron has more thermal mass and so requires more energy to heat than does the more heat conductive alluminum or copper. Clad pans, though made of SS, have a sandwich of aluminum or copper to distribute the heat more evenly along the pan surface. In addition, they are also lighter than is cast iron, and contain less thermal mass. They heat and cool quicker.

That being said, the reason cast iron produces more smoke is simply because it takes substantially longer to cool down, and has more latent energy to transfer to the cooking food. Thus, the oil, starch, whatever is heated by the pan generates smoke for alonger time period than they would if cooked in SS or aluminum at the same temperature.

Also, when the food is placed into the hot pan, the SS will be cooled to a greater degree than will the cast iron, again, generating less smoke.
See, no need for argument. It's simple thermo-dynamics.
And now, I'm going home.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
Goodweed of the North said:
From an engeneering technologist, cast iron has more thermal mass and so requires more energy to heat than does the more heat conductive alluminum or copper. Clad pans, though made of SS, have a sandwich of aluminum or copper to distribute the heat more evenly along the pan surface. In addition, they are also lighter than is cast iron, and contain less thermal mass. They heat and cool quicker.

That being said, the reason cast iron produces more smoke is simply because it takes substantially longer to cool down, and has more latent energy to transfer to the cooking food. Thus, the oil, starch, whatever is heated by the pan generates smoke for alonger time period than they would if cooked in SS or aluminum at the same temperature.

Also, when the food is placed into the hot pan, the SS will be cooled to a greater degree than will the cast iron, again, generating less smoke.
See, no need for argument. It's simple thermo-dynamics.
And now, I'm going home.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
i can understand your points, but the steaks were both at room temp. secondly, after placing the steak in the aluminum pan, i am able to crank the heat as high as i like WITHOUT generating more smoke... that is what i don't understand.

in the cast iron pan, because of latent heat & conductivity, i usually have to turn the heat DOWN 1-2 minutes after placing the steak in the pan... to decrease the amount of smoke.

the original discussion was cast iron vs. alum. my tri-ply clad cookware performs between these two extremes... giving me a good sear without an excessive amount of smoke.
 
See what I mean.

in the cast iron pan, because of latent heat & conductivity, i usually have to turn the heat DOWN 1-2 minutes after placing the steak in the pan... to decrease the amount of smoke.
You have to turn down the heat in the pan that stays the hottest. Yea, that's about what a non-engineer like me would expect.

...
 
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black chef said:
i can understand your points, but the steaks were both at room temp. secondly, after placing the steak in the aluminum pan, i am able to crank the heat as high as i like WITHOUT generating more smoke... that is what i don't understand.

in the cast iron pan, because of latent heat & conductivity, i usually have to turn the heat DOWN 1-2 minutes after placing the steak in the pan... to decrease the amount of smoke.

the original discussion was cast iron vs. alum. my tri-ply clad cookware performs between these two extremes... giving me a good sear without an excessive amount of smoke.

This is interesting. We know that the greater the temperature differential, between the heat source and the heat sink, the greater the heat transfer. And we know that as the temperatures approach each other, less temperature is exchanged between the heat source (the metal), and the heat sink (the steak). I am guessing here, but it's and educated hypothesis, that the surface material shouldn't really factor in as much as the thermal mass of the material would. That is, the steak is a constant, and so will absorb energy at a given rate due to the moisture, fat, and intitial temperature.

I believe that the greater smoke is caused by the breakdown of fat due to an increase of available energy provided by stored heat. Let's examine the reasons why I think this is the case. First, both iron and steel are relatively poor heat conductors, at least as far as metals go. While aluminum and copper are great conductors. It takes more energy to heat the cast-iron and steel pans than it does the aluminum pans. But that extra energy is stored as latent heat. So when a steak is placed onto a hot aluminum pan, the amount of stored heat is less. The steak absorbs it as it cooks, and the burner adds more heat to the pan. Less of the available heat is transfered to the fat as it is absorbed by the steak.

On the other hand, the SS conducts better than does the cast iron, but again is lighter and is not able to store as much latent heat energy. It will be able to transfer more heat to the oil, as the steak is still absorbing the same amount of energy as it did in the aluminum pan. The result is more smoke.

Finally, with greater thermal mass, the cast-iron, once hot, has lots of stored energy to give up to both the steak and the oil (melted fat). Therefore, the cast-iron pan will create much more smoke than will either the aluminum or SS.

This principle is also seen in ceramic pots and brick ovens. They are slow to heat, and store very large amounts of thermal energy. They are also able to transmit that energy over a long time period to the foods and vessels placed in or on them. This is why a pizza stone is able to better cook the crust than is a light aluminum pizza pan.

One more thing, with the pans, conduction is the primary heat transfer medium. And so, surface contact plays a role as well. Raised edges on some grills can't deliver heat as efficiently as will complete contact with the entire meat surface. In fact, the grill marks represent the increased heat delivered by conduction than the more pale meat cooked by infra-red radiation from the pan surfaces that don't actually touch the meat. But the fat that drips into the valleys will smoke considerably by the time the meat absorbs enough energy to be cooked.

Whew. I think that is accurate.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
skilletlicker said:
See what I mean.


You have to turn down the heat in the pan that stays the hottest. Yea, that's about what a non-engineer like me would expect.

...

:ROFLMAO: again, i agree with what you've said... i know there's more stored energy in the CS & SST pans.
 
Well, BC - look back at your list of cookware and the order in which they go from "smoking the most" to "smoking the least" ... it's linear as far as thermal conductivity. The least conductive (cast iron) smokes the most - the greatest conductor (aluminum) smokes the least.

Goodweed was definately on the right track ... but perhaps I can explain it another way. Conductivity is not only how quickly a metal absorbs heat - it is also how quickly it gives up heat. The slower a metal absorbs heat - the slower it realeases it. Given that all things are equal ... temp of the steak and the pan surface ... your observations are correct.
 
Michael in FtW said:
Well, BC - look back at your list of cookware and the order in which they go from "smoking the most" to "smoking the least" ... it's linear as far as thermal conductivity. The least conductive (cast iron) smokes the most - the greatest conductor (aluminum) smokes the least.

Goodweed was definately on the right track ... but perhaps I can explain it another way. Conductivity is not only how quickly a metal absorbs heat - it is also how quickly it gives up heat. The slower a metal absorbs heat - the slower it realeases it. Given that all things are equal ... temp of the steak and the pan surface ... your observations are correct.

Michael to the rescue!:mrgreen:
I like your style. You have a way of taking my long range of hypothetical ramblings and condensing them into something less complicated, and say something a non-engineer can understand. You get rid of the jargon.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
aside from the smoke issue, which pan gets you the best sear on your meat? That's the pan to use..the smoke means time to evaluate your ventialtion needs...something most of us take for granted.
 
[LEFT said:
skilletlicker[/left]]You clearly you take great pride in being an engineer. My personal experience is that debate with engineers is useless so here is one thought offered without any defense or intention of elaboration.

Aluminum heats fast but it cools fast too. A cold steak is fairly effective at cooling the temperature of the metal. Hence less smoke.

I'd love to eat with you buddy, but not interested in arguing.

skilletlicker expained it first. Accurately, and simply.
 
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