Wine and beer?

[Cooking Goddess]

And before anyone mentions "red wine headaches", the current thinking is that histamines play more of a role than sulphites...

I'm prone to believe that the reason for "red wine headaches" is too much red wine!

My BIL earned a sales trip to France (headquarters for the company he had been with) and thoroughly enjoyed the wine there. He claimed it didn't give him headaches because the French wine contained no sulphites. I told him all wine contains sulphites since they occur naturally. I've heard that additional sulphites are added to US wines - true or false? However, if the histamines were the cause wouldn't he have a headache no matter where the wine was made?

 

[taxlady]

I always thought they meant the sulfites used to make sure the bottles were microbe free. I have a friend who can drink any old white wine, but needs her reds to be organic.

 

[Steve Kroll]

Almost all wine contains added sulfite, in addition to that which occurs naturally. It's been an ingredient which has been added since Roman times. French wine contains just as much added sulfite as American wine. The difference is that in the EU, they aren't required to put it on the label. Buy a bottle of French wine here, and you'll see it on the label, because we require it by law.

Rather than me blather on about the causes of wine headaches, I found an article in the Wall Street Journal that explains it well:

Why Do I Get Headaches From Wine? - Wine - WSJ.com

 

[Cooking Goddess]

Interesting article Steve. I'm inclined, though, to believe my BIL problem is all in his head.

 

[Mad Cook]

For wine if I had cranberries , grapes , strawberrry ,...etc juices would all I have to do is add a packet of active yeast to make wine or alcoholed fruit drinks?

And If so how long after adding the yeast to the fruit juice will it take. And should it be refrigerated ?

For beer it seems like the same process a round about with barely,hops, and some water

The only harder alcohols one would need more things for is the harder alcohol
like vodka, brandy (distilled wine),gin,whisky ,.... etc since these are more concentrated since they are just really the distillation of the more simple ones usually

You need a good book on homemade wine making to tell you how to do it - I can recommend "First Steps in Winemaking" by C. J. J. Berry .... It is more complicated than you suggest. The equipment has to be spotlessly clean, the ingredients well balanced or the results can be very nasty indeed. My mother used to win prizes for her home made fruit wines.

As for distilling alcohol, there is only one word - DON'T! Apart from being illegal in many places it can be extremely dangerous as, unless you really know what you are doing, you can produce an extremely poisonous variety of alcohol

 

[Mad Cook]

Almost all wine contains added sulfite, in addition to that which occurs naturally. It's been an ingredient which has been added since Roman times. French wine contains just as much added sulfite as American wine. The difference is that in the EU, they aren't required to put it on the label. Buy a bottle of French wine here, and you'll see it on the label, because we require it by law.

Rather than me blather on about the causes of wine headaches, I found an article in the Wall Street Journal that explains it well:

Why Do I Get Headaches From Wine? - Wine - WSJ.com

Interesting but I get a headache from a glass of "New World" (ie American, Australian, etc.,) red wine but can drink half a bottle of the equivalent style of European red wine with no ill effects. I don't know if white wine is the same as I don't drink it - it sets my GFD running riot. I was always told that New World reds had substances added that were not permitted in French, etc., wines

 

[Mad Cook]

Hard to beat scuppernongs for homemade wine, jelly, jam, or just plain eating. JMHO. The local wild grapes....we call them bullous (sp?), are mighty good too.

Bullous? over here a bullace is a variety of plum, a little like a damson.

 

[Addie]

Distilled alcohol? Ever hear of "Bathtub Gin?" Do yourself a favor and get an education on it. Then forget the idea. That is unless you want to go blind or kill yourself and some friends who would be foolish enough to try it.

 

[Steve Kroll]

Interesting but I get a headache from a glass of "New World" (ie American, Australian, etc.,) red wine but can drink half a bottle of the equivalent style of European red wine with no ill effects. I don't know if white wine is the same as I don't drink it - it sets my GFD running riot. I was always told that New World reds had substances added that were not permitted in French, etc., wines

Hogwash. Believe it or not, wine making standards are pretty much the same the world round. Take sulfites for example. The amount of SO2 added to wine isn't arbitrary. It's carefully measured and based on a formula. The same formula is used in France as it is anywhere else. Believe me, no winemaker wants to add more than the required amount of metabisulfite needed to provide microbial stability.

As for new world wines having substances added that aren't permitted elsewhere, if that were truly the case, those wines couldn't be sold in other markets. In fact, many of the wine making additives and yeasts used worldwide, including France and much of the EU, are manufactured by a Canadian company called Lallemand.

Now if you want to talk about strange things being added to wine, here is a bit of trivia. Up until 1998, when the practice was banned by the EU, France was allowed to add dried oxblood to their wines (mostly in Burgundy and the Rhone Valley). Just something to keep in mind the next time you uncork an old bottle of Côte-Rôtie.

 

[Addie]

I would take Steve's word before anyone else's.

 

[Mad Cook]

Hogwash. Believe it or not, wine making standards are pretty much the same the world round. Take sulfites for example. The amount of SO2 added to wine isn't arbitrary. It's carefully measured and based on a formula. The same formula is used in France as it is anywhere else. Believe me, no winemaker wants to add more than the required amount of metabisulfite needed to provide microbial stability.

As for new world wines having substances added that aren't permitted elsewhere, if that were truly the case, those wines couldn't be sold in other markets. In fact, many of the wine making additives and yeasts used worldwide, including France and much of the EU, are manufactured by a Canadian company called Lallemand.

Now if you want to talk about strange things being added to wine, here is a bit of trivia. Up until 1998, when the practice was banned by the EU, France was allowed to add dried oxblood to their wines (mostly in Burgundy and the Rhone Valley). Just something to keep in mind the next time you uncork an old bottle of Côte-Rôtie.

No need to be rude. I was only reporting what I've been told not what I know to be true.

The ox (or bull's)-blood story used to be (and still sometimes is) told about a Hungarian red called Egri Bikavér. It's largely apocryphal in that case, dating from the 16th century when bulls blood is said to have been added to a batch of wine to boost the bravery of Hungarian soldiers defending the country against the Turks.

Blood wasn't actually a part of the French wine that you drank. It was used as an ingredient of a product widely used as finings to clear wine. It was indeed, banned in the 1990s as a result of BSE

 

[Steve Kroll]

No need to be rude. I was only reporting what I've been told not what I know to be true.

The ox (or bull's)-blood story used to be (and still sometimes is) told about a Hungarian red called Egri Bikavér. It's largely apocryphal in that case, dating from the 16th century when bulls blood is said to have been added to a batch of wine to boost the bravery of Hungarian soldiers defending the country against the Turks.

Blood wasn't actually a part of the French wine that you drank. It was used as an ingredient of a product widely used as finings to clear wine. It was indeed, banned in the 1990s as a result of BSE

If I came off as rude, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intent.

You are correct about oxblood being used as a fining agent.

I've read some of the articles you mention where people have expressed concerns about wine additives, some of which do contain what might be considered odd ingredients; egg whites, ground crustacean shells, inactive yeast, etc. What most of these folks don't seem to understand is the process of "fining," or clarifying a wine. These natural compounds are in fact added to wine and later removed. Their purpose is to bind chemically to unwanted proteins and toxins (primarily yeast waste material) and separate them from the wine. The sediment falls to the bottom of the tank or cask so the clear wine can be separated. In other words, fining agents are used to clarify the wine, but aren't part of the finished product.

In my own wine making, I try to use as few of these things as are needed. Most of the time nothing is needed at all. Wine stored in barrels normally falls sparkling clear within about 6 months without any intervention whatsoever. When I make white wine, I sometimes have to use a clay based compound called bentonite, which binds to and removes floating proteins that will otherwise cause a wine to appear cloudy.

For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.

 

[taxlady]

...
For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.

Yeah, I can see how that could happen. And, it wouldn't be vegan.

 

[Mad Cook]

If I came off as rude, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intent.

You are correct about oxblood being used as a fining agent.

I've read some of the articles you mention where people have expressed concerns about wine additives, some of which do contain what might be considered odd ingredients; egg whites, ground crustacean shells, inactive yeast, etc. What most of these folks don't seem to understand is the process of "fining," or clarifying a wine. These natural compounds are in fact added to wine and later removed. Their purpose is to bind chemically to unwanted proteins and toxins (primarily yeast waste material) and separate them from the wine. The sediment falls to the bottom of the tank or cask so the clear wine can be separated. In other words, fining agents are used to clarify the wine, but aren't part of the finished product.

In my own wine making, I try to use as few of these things as are needed. Most of the time nothing is needed at all. Wine stored in barrels normally falls sparkling clear within about 6 months without any intervention whatsoever. When I make white wine, I sometimes have to use a clay based compound called bentonite, which binds to and removes floating proteins that will otherwise cause a wine to appear cloudy.

For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.

Apology accepted.

I think my mother used to use bentonite for clearing her homemade wines when necessary. A form of clay, I think?