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Old 02-22-2008, 12:44 PM   #1
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Question Expensive Steels - Worth The Dollar?

I currently us a 12.99 diamond steel for honing my knives and it does a fantastic job...

Im now tempted to uprgrade to a wusthof who offer a standard diamond steel @ 35 or a Culinar version @ 75... Im not sure what makes the culinar version so much more expensive, im sure it cant just be the handle design?!

Ive seen global ones for 100+ which i would never buy as i dont rate globals, especially for the money they cost.

Just wondered if people think its worth shelling out the extra dollar for a more expensive steel, and what differences i should expect to see compared to my cheaper version?

Anyone used a wusthof / global diamond steel?

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Old 02-23-2008, 10:47 AM   #2
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I wish I could help, but my steel of choice is a smooth steel steel. I'm not sure I'd get much use from a diamond rod on a day-to-day basis, though I know some people seem to like them.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:44 AM   #3
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My weapon of choice for honing is a smooth ceramic. I have one pure ceramic from Edge Pro Inc (ordered it along with my Apex) and one DMT CS2 ceramic that's a "ceramic" coated aluminum rod. Both are extremely fine grit. The EdgePro rod might be a tad finer but the DMT CS2 is virtually unbreakable, so I use the former at home and carry the latter in my work knife roll.

I'm also not a fan of diamond steels. Maybe someone else can chime in on it, but my opinion is that you're better off not using one to sharpen, but rather just to true the edge. For that a smooth steel (or better yet, a ceramic hone) is the way to go.

Just my $.02.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:34 AM   #4
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My weapon of choice for honing is a smooth ceramic. I have one pure ceramic from Edge Pro Inc (ordered it along with my Apex) and one DMT CS2 ceramic that's a "ceramic" coated aluminum rod. Both are extremely fine grit...

Rob:

Does the ceramic one do more than hone the edge as it is so hard? Does it also serve as a sharpening tool?
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:05 PM   #5
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Rob:

Does the ceramic one do more than hone the edge as it is so hard? Does it also serve as a sharpening tool?

Mostly it straightens the edge, but it does remove a very, very small amount of metal. Over time I do get a bit of steel residue on the rod. But it definately doesn't remove much. I use a very light touch- it works best when you're just barely touching the hone.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:37 PM   #6
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Mostly it straightens the edge, but it does remove a very, very small amount of metal. Over time I do get a bit of steel residue on the rod. But it definately doesn't remove much. I use a very light touch- it works best when you're just barely touching the hone.

Do you think using a ceramic one lengthens the time between sharpenings?
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:00 PM   #7
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In relation to my original post, i have found out that the rods on the 2 wusthof steels are identical - its just the different handle design that adds the extra 40
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:41 PM   #8
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Good research Chef William! Save yourself a pile of cash!
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:49 AM   #9
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Here's something different. A 15" borosilicate rod, smooth on opposing quarters, and slightly rough, like ceramic, on the other two opposing quarters. It works like a glass smooth steel AND a ceramic steel plus it makes an incredible conversation piece.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:14 PM   #10
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Do you think using a ceramic one lengthens the time between sharpenings?
I think it does, definately. Ben Dale, the genius behind Edge Pro Inc., says a well sharpened edge come come back ten to fifteen times with the ceramic. And I find that's normally the case.

Buzz- where'd you get the borosilcate rod? I'd love to get one if they're not too spendy. Japenese Knife Sharpening has 'em but they're $70. Probably worth it but I'd love to find it cheaper...

Ever use a beer glass to hone a knife? It works extremely well!
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:02 PM   #11
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...Ever use a beer glass to hone a knife? It works extremely well!

Really? How so?!
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Old 02-29-2008, 03:23 PM   #12
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Really? How so?!
Glass is harder than steel and can easily be used to realign an edge. I've used Guinness pint glasses, car windows on hunting trips and pyrex baking dishes. Pyrex is borosilicate.

Chef W - the motion is the same as using any other "steel". Set the angle and take an imaginery slice.

Rob - the boro rod is in fact from JKS. I believe Dave has exclusive rights to this particular Hand American product. You can find them on line for cheap, just about any diameter up to a little over an inch, in colors even, and they usually come in four to five foot lengths.
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:34 PM   #13
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My sister has a flat steel that is brilliant...I think a lot of it is technique too. I cringe when I see some people steel a knife.
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:42 PM   #14
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My sister has a flat steel that is brilliant...I think a lot of it is technique too. I cringe when I see some people steel a knife.
Flat steel, round steel, pick a shape, any shape. The important attribute is that the surface must be dead smooth. Those grooved steels that come with knife sets are files, nothing less. They will tear apart a good edge. Oh, they sharpen alright, at least they sharpen a very dull knife. To look at the result under magnification is horrifying. It looks like the tops of the Alps. In this condition a knife cuts better than dull, but in my kitchen they would be a joke.
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:02 AM   #15
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Looking again I see that the shorter glass rod (like 12" or so) is only $55. Once I recover financially from the purchase of my Margules Daleth preamp and the Hattoir FK 240mm Gyoto I just ordered, I'll have to pick up the rod and a few stropping products from Dave. I especially look forward to trying the hard felt.

Buzz, you ever remove the burr "Murray Carter style," cutting into wood?
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:44 AM   #16
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Looking again I see that the shorter glass rod (like 12" or so) is only $55. Once I recover financially from the purchase of my Margules Daleth preamp and the Hattoir FK 240mm Gyoto I just ordered, I'll have to pick up the rod and a few stropping products from Dave. I especially look forward to trying the hard felt.

Buzz, you ever remove the burr "Murray Carter style," cutting into wood?
Ah, you're getting the KF Gyuto. Good for you. I looked long and hard at that one. Then I looked at the pile of boxes in my closet that already contain various Gyutos and French chef's knives and asked myself, "What are you thinking?" In the longer run I'll probably sell two or three and get a Moritaka 270 and wait in the weeds for somebody (anybody - please) to start making a 9 1/2 to 12" Japanese geometry French profile in 13C26. I daydream about one; Smallest carbides on the planet, stainless, long lasting edge, inexpensive steel.... in my opinion, the perfect kitchen knife.

As to the borosilicate steels, go for it. They work the same as smooth tool steel although glass is glass and one must treat them carefully. It must be the devil in me but I love to have dinner guests who don't know my passion. First, they get these funny little smiles when they see the boro alignment process followed by dropping jaws when they take the first slice with my Chuckabocho or one of my Nakiris. It's as if they are seeing the sun shine for the first time.

Burrs - every steel is different. I have indeed used light passes on wood with success. The same thing with the rubber parts of a stone holder. Nowadays I take one extremely light pass with the last stone followed by three to four strops on HA hard felt. When you get yours, you'll notice the felt is grainy. Strop against the grain with light to medium pressure and what is left of the burr disappears. I've been happy with the entire Hand American scary sharp system.
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:01 AM   #17
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Well, I need another 240mm Gyuto like I need a hole in the head! But I've never had one of the Hattori Forum Knives, so curiousity got the better of me. I still haven't ordered the HA felt pad but I probably will before long. I just sold some speaker cables that I wasn't using, and the proceeds will probably be used for more sharpening stuff.

Like I need more sharpening stuff!
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