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Old 12-07-2008, 04:29 PM   #11
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I've been looking at the Global whetsones. They talk up the ceramic qualities of their stones. Is there any truth to that? Are you still using a rod/steel during daily use or just sharpening when you feel it's needed? Global also states that using a traditional steel will damage their knives and a diamond or ceramic rod should be used???
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:53 PM   #12
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I use the steel several times a day and sharpen once a week. A steel hones (realigns the edge) where a stone sharpens (grinds a new edge).

One of the chefs in my kitchen uses Global knives and doesn't treat it any differently to his other knives. I don't honestly know if what Global say about ceramic steels and all that is an according to Hoyle truth, but some people believe that Japanese and Western knives need to be treated differently. I haven't looked into Global too closely as I don't like the ergonomics of their knives, but the general impression I get is that they are marching to the beat of a different drum when it comes to honing and sharpening. Having said that I still think their ceramic wheel sharpener is the best of its type and is perfectly acceptable for home use provided that it isn't over-used.

Also ceramic and glass steels (and ceramic knives for that matter) aren't used in professional kitchens because of the risk of breakage so I've never looked closely into their properties.
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:33 PM   #13
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Very cool info, jpaulg.

It gets so dang technical when speaking of Japanese knives. I actually spoke with someone last week who lead me to believe I might have been better off with a western knife if I was going to undertake my own sharpening. And maybe he was right, but give me the chance (lol).
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:38 PM   #14
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it's not the steel , but the degree of hardness in japanese knives. A steel is generally around 61RC, and some japanese knives can be as high as 65RC. Also improper technique can cause alot of chipping.
On japanese style knives with double bevels, I hear the borosilicate rods work very well. Using any "steel" in a traditional single bevel japanese knife is a nono.

Sharpening on a stone really isn't that difficult, it's just something that takes some practice. There's also quite a few sharpening systems that use stones that can help you.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by pacanis View Post
Very cool info, jpaulg.

It gets so dang technical when speaking of Japanese knives. I actually spoke with someone last week who lead me to believe I might have been better off with a western knife if I was going to undertake my own sharpening. And maybe he was right, but give me the chance (lol).
The way same people get about their knives other people get about their steels.

Here's a link to site that has some really really good info on steels.
The Steel Doctor - Custom and Refurbished Butcher's Knife Sharpening Steels

Pre-war F Dicks and Williams Smithfields have the best reputations, but I'm getting to the edge of my knowledge
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SShepherd View Post
it's not the steel , but the degree of hardness in japanese knives. A steel is generally around 61RC, and some japanese knives can be as high as 65RC. Also improper technique can cause alot of chipping.
On japanese style knives with double bevels, I hear the borosilicate rods work very well. Using any "steel" in a traditional single bevel japanese knife is a nono.

Sharpening on a stone really isn't that difficult, it's just something that takes some practice. There's also quite a few sharpening systems that use stones that can help you.
Well said. Germanic steels are worse than useless with Japanese knives because of their softer relative hardness. Ceramic or borosilicate steels work well.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Donnelly View Post
I've been using a steel on my knives and I thinks it's time to get a sharpening device. Can I get suggestions on a good place to start.
I have used a variety of sharpeners over the years and like the Spyderco Sharpmaker. It comes with video instructions and is easy to use.

I've also been happy with an electric Chef's Choice sharpener, but when I moved to Australia, the different electrical system here ruled that out.

The best? EdgePro - expensive, precise, any angle, any grit
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:10 PM   #18
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The best? EdgePro - expensive, precise, any angle, any grit
Expensive - yes
Precise - yes
Any angle - yes qualified to 10 degrees minimum with the Apex model
Any grit - No. You are stuck with the EP stones available.

I am a happy owner of an EP Apex, however, free handing on 8" stones costs no more, offers any angle you want, is much faster, and is personally much more satisfying.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:54 PM   #19
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Any grit - No. You are stuck with the EP stones available.
Sorry. You're right. Only grits 120, 220, 320, 800, 3000 & 7000 are available from Edgepro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I am a happy owner of an EP Apex, however, free handing on 8" stones costs no more, offers any angle you want, is much faster, and is personally much more satisfying.
I think this falls under the different strokes for different folks category.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:23 PM   #20
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Sorry. You're right. Only grits 120, 220, 320, 800, 3000 & 7000 are available from Edgepro.

I think this falls under the different strokes for different folks category.
You may lay on the sarcasm as you wish but the fact remains that the grits you listed are nothing compared to what is available in waterstones, not to mention that different stones of the exact same grit feel and react totally differently, something of which it seems you may not be aware. I have nothing against the EP. You don't have to defend it. I have one and it works great, but I can produce much better edges using other medium.

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