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Old 09-14-2008, 09:43 PM   #1
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The stone sharpen thing

Yeah well I bought a cheap 9 dollar knife at Bed Bath and Beyond on sale. I got the 5 dollar steel to go with it. The knife worked great. one of them japanese knifes. I forget the name. Any way I wanted to try my hand at honing. I think I grinded the edge off the knife cuz now it wont cut. After doing some research on this board I found that I actaully need a stone to sharpen the knife and not just a steel like some tutorials on the web say. Any way I just want to know if I can use any sharpening stone or is there a brand I should aim for? Like something in the 20 to 30 dollar range? Any way great board I always like coming here.

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Old 09-15-2008, 06:42 AM   #2
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there is a difference between honing and sharpening.

sharpening you are taking down the metal to obtain an edge.

honing you are straighting the tip or point of the blade.

there are sharpening steels.

Im not a knife expert but someone will chime in. there are some knife masters on here.


A good set of knives are a quality investment. Just make sure they fit comfortably in your hand and feel right. There is no 1 knife for everyone.

I think Santoku is the name your looking for.
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:10 PM   #3
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Norton makes/made some pretty good abrasives. Spyderco has some nifty sharpening stones/files.
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:20 AM   #4
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Sometimes people put the cart before the horse. Sharpening is one of those pursuits where that happens a lot. It's not so much the equipment you own, it's getting some background on the procedure and doing some practice.

For example, on a forum I haunt with other sharpeners, one member filmed himself sharpening a kitchen knife.

A Day On The Stones: Sharpening the Mizuno Tanrenjo Wa-Gyuto

He doesn't use any equipment other than stones of various grits from suppliers readily found on the 'net.

Obviously, you don't have to quick your day job and take up the trade, but the skills shown here can be learned by anyone.

There are also good 'guided systems,' like the Edge Pro that give people a good starting point. I'm one of them.

You weren't a good chef the first time you boiled water. Your skill developed over time. This is much the same idea.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:10 PM   #5
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I use a Norton 3 stone system. Expensive but worth it.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:15 PM   #6
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The ( dollar knife you can sharpen on a regular piece of brick. Doesn't really matter. It's all in the practise. I'm not making fun of anybody. This is what my mother did all her life with her cheap knives. When you get an expensive set or few knives and can afford expensive sharpening system then you can get something nice.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:09 AM   #7
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The only thing I would add is the requirement some chefs have for "plating" or presentation.

Yes, I can make an edge sharp using traditional stones that leave a more "toothy" edge. And a good chef or sous-chef can make a knife like that work very well.

However, many of these professionals want knives that are mirror finished and that leave perfect slices. A fugu chef absolutely needs a knife of this quality.

Another issue here is just the work load. If I cut one or two tomatoes for my wife, just about any knife will get the job done.

But a cook or a sous-chef in a major kitchen will spend hours of prep time cutting numerous vegetables, or mincing onions or blocking a large section of beef to create a restaurants 'signature' offering.

I loaned a butakiri to a sous-chef blocking a leg of beef. (Either a small leg of beef or the biggest lamb I have ever seen!) I watched the leg "fall apart" as he made some very educated cuts. He probably does this all day.

Finally, this is a business. My clients have expectations just as yours do. If a chef or private owner spends hundreds (or thousands) of dollars for a top-of-the-line knife, he expects the edge to shimmer like liquid silver.

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Old 09-19-2008, 04:50 PM   #8
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[quote=Burnt_Toast;684292]After doing some research on this board I found that I actaully need a stone to sharpen the knife and not just a steel like some tutorials on the web say. Any way I just want to know if I can use any sharpening stone or is there a brand I should aim for? /quote]

You NEED the following.......



Just kidding. You probably aren't crazy like yours truly. I don't think you can get a quality edge at a $30 price but I'm sure others will contest that. For your case, now and in the future, you can do just fine with a King 1k/6k combination stone. Look around the Internet for a cheaper price. You also need something to flatten the stone - go to Lowes or Home Depot, "borrow" a carpenter's square from the tool department, and find a dead flat piece of granite or ceramic tile and also pick up some 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper. That's really all you need.

The edge on the knife you described will roll instead of chipping, so before each use, 'slice' it on the smooth edge of a glass baking dish alternating sides three times. This will realign the edge and you're set to go. When this no longer works, it's back to the King and start over.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:04 PM   #9
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Ok I was looking through old threads and this one is the most applicable to my situation.

I have quite a few knives, a few good ones and quite a few not so good. Mostly the cheap ones are still allegedly "forged" they all REALLY need a sharpening.

I bought but never used a stone (2 sided) and a steel (cheap ones from the restaurant supply store)

I would like to be able to sharpen my own knives as bringing them all to Fante's will break the bank. and the cheap ones are certainly not worth the cost of sharpening.

Some are SS and Some are Carbon Steel

Some tips on getting started would be appreciated... I really don't need a collection of over sized butter knives.

The cheaper knives I don't really care about keeping pretty or hurting so I would start with them... If I cant get them to be useful I will just chuck them. But if I can get them sharp enough for basic use that would be nice because I dont always like to worry about treating things nicely sometimes it is easier to have things I am not afraid to bang around a but.

The Whustof Santoku and the vintage Sabatier I am more hesitant to touch.... The Whustof has held its edge nicely despite quite a bit of use but it is getting duller. The Sabatier is an old carbon steel knife I picked up.. I have never used it but I would like to.

Thanks
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:40 PM   #10
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I am so glad that my random rantings have help someone.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanchoHambre View Post
Ok I was looking through old threads and this one is the most applicable to my situation.

I have quite a few knives, a few good ones and quite a few not so good. Mostly the cheap ones are still allegedly "forged" they all REALLY need a sharpening.

I bought but never used a stone (2 sided) and a steel (cheap ones from the restaurant supply store)

I would like to be able to sharpen my own knives as bringing them all to Fante's will break the bank. and the cheap ones are certainly not worth the cost of sharpening.

Some are SS and Some are Carbon Steel

Some tips on getting started would be appreciated... I really don't need a collection of over sized butter knives.

The cheaper knives I don't really care about keeping pretty or hurting so I would start with them... If I cant get them to be useful I will just chuck them. But if I can get them sharp enough for basic use that would be nice because I dont always like to worry about treating things nicely sometimes it is easier to have things I am not afraid to bang around a but.

The Whustof Santoku and the vintage Sabatier I am more hesitant to touch.... The Whustof has held its edge nicely despite quite a bit of use but it is getting duller. The Sabatier is an old carbon steel knife I picked up.. I have never used it but I would like to.

Thanks
A few pointers that helped me when I was learning the skill
- Your ears are the best guide to tell you if you're using the stone correctly. You want to be grinding metal off the edge, not sliding it over the stone.
- Use the whole length of the stone and sharpen from tip to heel evenly.
- Speed comes with time, be prepared to take it slowly to ensure that you have consistency when you're learning.
- Consistency of angle is the single most important thing.
- The 'countdown' method takes longer but produces better edges.

For me I find it takes about 3 months to get a new knife into the shape that I want it where it takes and holds the edge consistently. I'll grind a new edge onto it then use it for a week, lightly sharpen, use it for a week, lightly sharpen etc. It seems to be a case of repeatedly taking 2 steps forward and one step back gets the best results for me.

Don't be afraid of the santoku, I find that they are very easy knives to sharpen because they have a relatively short blade and no bolster. For some reason I always find Sabatiers the most difficult to sharpen.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:17 PM   #12
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thanks for the tips. I would like to be able to do this myself...we'll see
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanchoHambre View Post
The Whustof Santoku and the vintage Sabatier I am more hesitant to touch.... The Sabatier is an old carbon steel knife I picked up.. I have never used it but I would like to.
Thanks
I have a big case of vintage carbon steel Sabatier knives and I love them they sharpen easily and stay sharp. I think you will like them too.

Just dive on in there. The coarse side first, then the fine side. You will be able to see which part you are sharpening because it will be brighter.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:33 AM   #14
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Permanent marker is also helpful in showing low areas and maintaining a consistent edge.

There's no easy way to freehand sharpen (though some ways are easier than others), so the only way to become proficient is to practice. That means going slowly in the beginning until the strokes become consistent. I posted a video of a guy using inclined stone in another thread. I find it's much easier for me to obtain a constant bevel that way.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:02 PM   #15
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diamond sharpening steels

Hello, I find many average people dont understand the
technique when using a sharpening steel or honing steel. Sounds like you have a honing steel. Have you ever considered a diamond sharpening steel. I find they are easy to store in a drawer and they work great. For a video on proper use:
see ergo chef's web site under sharpening steels

Any further questions I will be glad to help
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:15 PM   #16
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Any further questions I will be glad to help
Cheftoolsz - I posted and then deleted because I thought it would be prudent to first explore your kind offer to check out the Ergo site so I did. The video is about the line of Ergo knives with a short piece on the steel at the end. Are you connected with them in any way? With a moniker like cheftoolz my gut feeling is that your post is the beginning of a Cutco-like come on. Correct?
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:58 AM   #17
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Not cutco

I am not like Cutco. If thats your impresion, your quite mistaken.
I was just trying to offer my help.
I am affiliated with Ergo Chef, Just trying to show how simple it is to use a Diamond sharpening steel. It's not rocket science and if you watched the video you should get enouph from it to do it. Just have to practice a few times.
Lets keep the Door to Door Cutco people out of it.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:02 PM   #18
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I am not like Cutco. If thats your impresion, your quite mistaken.
I was just trying to offer my help.
I am affiliated with Ergo Chef, Just trying to show how simple it is to use a Diamond sharpening steel. It's not rocket science and if you watched the video you should get enouph from it to do it. Just have to practice a few times.
Lets keep the Door to Door Cutco people out of it.
Okay, then I'll address diamond steels directly. They cut too fast. They remove too much metal, especially with soft knives like Ergos with edges that roll and need to be realigned with a glass smooth steel. The diamond steels take away metal that can be used again and again and again before needing to be resharpened. I'll also endorse ceramic steels like the Idahone 10 or 12 inch "fine" (1200 grit). It removes much less metal than diamonds and also works well with harder steels such as found on Japanese knives.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:29 PM   #19
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I agree with Buzzard. I do use a coarse DMT DiaSharp plate to set the edge angle on new knives, but from there on up it's all ceramic. I have a borosilicate rod from McMaster-Carr that I'll use for steeling as soon as I'm able to make a handle for it.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:02 PM   #20
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I agree with Buzzard. I do use a coarse DMT DiaSharp plate to set the edge angle on new knives, but from there on up it's all ceramic. I have a borosilicate rod from McMaster-Carr that I'll use for steeling as soon as I'm able to make a handle for it.
Dr, I have a 15" HandAmerican borosilicate rod but didn't bring boron into the mix as I thought it would confuse things unnecessarily. Now that it's out of the bag though, the boro rod, which is the model divided into opposing quarters, two smooth and two microgrooved, is my steel of choice for soft steel, and my Idahone fine ceramic steel is used for my Japanese blades. They work so well that I haven't used my glass smooth steel in a year. Confusing????
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