"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cookware and Accessories > Knives
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-24-2007, 07:46 PM   #21
Head Chef
 
Caine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CHINATOWN
Posts: 2,314
Send a message via MSN to Caine
From a knife manufacturer's web site: How to Use Your Sharpening Steel
__________________

__________________
Caine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 08:10 PM   #22
Sous Chef
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caine
From a knife manufacturer's web site: How to Use Your Sharpening Steel
Holy cow. An unabashed advertisement for some company's products, and mostly bad information at that. Spend a couple bucks and buy an old book on Amazon - The Razor Edge Book Of Sharpening by John Juranitch, first printing 1985. Learn about steel edges, how to sharpen them, and how to keep them that way. One caveat, his saying "keep your blade under a 25-degree angle.." is conservative. I have carbon steel blades forged prior to WWII that I keep at 15 degrees with zero problems whatsoever. VG-10 and powder steels commonly found on present day Japanese cooking knives can be easily taken to a 10 degree angle.

Take your precious Forschners to a professional sharpener (no, I'm not one of them) and have your edge reprofiled and ask him how you should take care of them. Or, be satisfied with an edge that is the equal of a Kia relative to a Ferrari. The difference in your hand is amazing.

Buzz
__________________

__________________
buzzard767 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 08:53 PM   #23
Sous Chef
 
BlueCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA, Illinois
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767
Well, I don't know diddly about Chef Pepin, but I just read his sharpening advice here. Most of the info is okay but some is incorrect.

Steeling is only done properly when the angle of the blade to the steel matches (exactly) the angle of the edge to the blade. If you have an axe-like edge of 25 degrees like you get from the Henckel factory you have to maintain a 25 degree angle. Simple. Now, if you slide your expensive Shun Elite blade down the steel at 25 degrees, whoops, you have just rolled, and probably ruined, the 16 degree edge angle set at the factory.

1. Place the end of the steel on a surface and keep it absolutely verticle.
2. Match the angle
3. Lock your wrist
4. Pull or push with your arm only, maintaining the angle with the locked wrist.

Again, simple. All it takes is a little knowledge and a little practise.

This business about watching some TV chef slashing away this way and that is absolute garbage. That would be for show only. Most big time chefs have their knives sharpened professionally anyway. Find those guys at bladeforums and knifeforums, where pros hang out.

Sorry if I sound somewhat harsh, but there is a lot of bad info being spread.

Buzz
Well, in fact, you do sound a bit harsh, particularly when you think that I watched some TV chef "slashing away, this way and that" and am some sort of hack because of it. I saw him, not on TV, but demonstrating on a website, the way he uses a steel. Of course I'm sure he has his knives sharpened professionally. We were talking about how to use a steel. He was very specific, just as you were about the proper angles to use, etc., and he also said to keep your wrists locked and to move from the shoulder, so as not to alter the angles. No need to badmouth anyone.

Oh, and to answer my own question, I guess that my knives are in pretty fine tune, but the way I sliced the bejeebers out of my finger about an hour ago, just barely running my hand over it to remove some onion that was on the blade. No need to sharpen that one with the stone yet. And yes, I do my own sharpening, with my own sharpening stones, because I'm not a "big time chef."

BC
__________________
BlueCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 09:06 PM   #24
Executive Chef
 
AllenOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA, Oklahoma
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieD
I agree it doesn't matter if you pull or push. I for one push one side and pull the other. But what is important how often you use one. I suggest using every time before using your knife. That will keep knife from getting dull, and also will help decrease need for sharpening.
I see I'm not the only person that does this.

I hold my steel at a 45 degree angle, in my left hand, with the cross-guard parallel to my arm (this ensures that the knife, should it slip off, will strike the cross-guard, and not my hand). I hold my knife in my right hand, and place the right side of the blade, at the "toe" or "heel" of the blade, onto the left side of the steel, and draw the blade down the length of the steel, ending at the tip. Then, I place the left side of the blade, at the tip, on the right side of the steel, and draw up and away. Usually, I only need 3 strokes to hone my knife.
__________________
Peace, Love, and Vegetable Rights!
Eat Meat and Save the Plants!
AllenOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 09:21 PM   #25
Executive Chef
 
ironchef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The SPAM eating capital of the world.
Posts: 3,558
Bottom line is, it's not how you hold your steel, it's the angle which is the most important. With that being said, having a sharp knife is one of the most important kitchen tools to have. With a dull knife, when you're quickly chopping something like scallions, you won't be able to make clean cuts and you'll get some large pieces that look like an accordian. With a sharp knife, you can mow through a bunch of scallions and get thin shavings. I needed to prep for dinner so here's something to give you an idea of what I mean. The sound in the video is off for some reason. It was okay when I did it but when I uploaded it, the video for some reason is moving slower than the sound is going. When the sound stops is when I finished cutting the scallions, not when the video shows it:

Click here to watch How-sharp-is-your-knife

But on the flip side, you're better off having a dull knife and knowing how to cook rather than having sharp knives but very little culinary skill whatsoever. That's kind of like having a fast car and driving like your passenger is Miss Daisy. It's like saying, "Look my knives are so sharp I can cut through ice! Would you like some Hamburger Helper or Kraft Macaroni and Cheese for dinner?"
__________________
"Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it."
Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
ironchef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 09:58 PM   #26
Sous Chef
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironchef
Bottom line is, it's not how you hold your steel, it's the angle which is the most important. With that being said, having a sharp knife is one of the most important kitchen tools to have. With a dull knife, when you're quickly chopping something like scallions, you won't be able to make clean cuts and you'll get some large pieces that look like an accordian. With a sharp knife, you can mow through a bunch of scallions and get thin shavings. I needed to prep for dinner so here's something to give you an idea of what I mean. The sound in the video is off for some reason. It was okay when I did it but when I uploaded it, the video for some reason is moving slower than the sound is going. When the sound stops is when I finished cutting the scallions, not when the video shows it:

Click here to watch How-sharp-is-your-knife

But on the flip side, you're better off having a dull knife and knowing how to cook rather than having sharp knives but very little culinary skill whatsoever. That's kind of like having a fast car and driving like your passenger is Miss Daisy. It's like saying, "Look my knives are so sharp I can cut through ice! Would you like some Hamburger Helper or Kraft Macaroni and Cheese for dinner?"

Excellent post. Here's some stuff from an Internet acquaintance of mine. Notice the polished blade, like a mirror. All his knives are like that and he does it himself. Most of his knives are carbon steel, thinly profiled, and polished like the devil. Anal. A man after my own heart. By the way, he's a chef, not a home cook like me.

chop chop

cut cut
__________________
buzzard767 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2007, 10:22 PM   #27
Sous Chef
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 608
Here's another one of Curtis's vids. This time with a chef's knife. The guy is fun to watch. BTW, nobody's perfect - he has cut himself.....



Buzz
__________________
buzzard767 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 11:32 AM   #28
Head Chef
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 1,129
Send a message via AIM to college_cook
I think the statement that a grooved steel removes metal is incorrect. The only way to remove metal from a blade is through the use of an abrasive; something with grit. A grooved steel doesn't have any grit, so how would it remove metal?

The only steels that CAN remove metal are those studded with diamond dust, which acts as a very light abrasive, and lightly sharpens your blade while it hones it.

My very favorite steel to use is a diamond steel, oval-shaped.
__________________
college_cook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 12:26 PM   #29
Sous Chef
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by college_cook
I think the statement that a grooved steel removes metal is incorrect. The only way to remove metal from a blade is through the use of an abrasive; something with grit. A grooved steel doesn't have any grit, so how would it remove metal?

The only steels that CAN remove metal are those studded with diamond dust, which acts as a very light abrasive, and lightly sharpens your blade while it hones it.

My very favorite steel to use is a diamond steel, oval-shaped.
Why do you "think" grooved steels remove no metal? It's the grooves that do the work. Put another way, show me diamond dust on a file.

Buzz
__________________
buzzard767 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2007, 01:03 PM   #30
Head Chef
 
keltin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Down South in Alabama
Posts: 2,285
Send a message via AIM to keltin
Well, this has turned out to be an interesting thread! It seems that for steeling its all about different strokes (pun intended) for different folks.

I prefer to hold the steel near horizontal push away because it is more comfortable and I can maintain the proper angle more effectively. But I must admit, I am impressed when I see chef’s pull the knife down the steel with lightening fast movements.

When I said serrated in my original post, I meant a serrated knife like a bread knife.



Grooved steel does remove metal, especially if you have a heavy hand. It basically acts like a file.......and when you look at a file you see it is just steel with grooves. But, if you don’t lay on the knife while using grooved steel and instead use light pressure at the proper angle, you’ll be fine.

As for sharpening your knives, here’s a very comprehensive site with everything you ever wanted to know....and more.
__________________

__________________
keltin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.