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Old 01-19-2009, 11:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jpaulg View Post
OK I know I was generalising but I think that it isn't controversial to say that Japanese knives are precision instruments designed for specific tasks.

With german style knives, which includes quite a few non-German manufacturers as well, there is an emphasis on practicality and ergonomics. Yes they have steel that is generally geared to high chrome content, but that is a deliberate decision aimed at keeping the knives rust free and looking good. But for example you also have Goldhamster and Scanpan Damastahl knives made in the German pattern but using much better quality steel than one normally associates with German knives.
The ergonomics of handling come into it with the wide belly and more curved edge that German knives carry compared to Japanese or French knives. This makes using the rotary cutting technique easier (your wrist has to travel in smaller circles) and safer (its very hard to get the fingers of your guide hand under the edge). You see a lot of Wusthofs in commercial kitchens precisely for their ergonomic factors.

Sabatiers have much thicker blades than German or French knives. This creates a wedge effect when cutting, most noticable on root vegetables. With the smaller belly your wrist has to perform much larger circles than with a german knife to get the same elevation. This makes the downstroke cut of the Sabatier a much longer stroke with more lateral movement relative to vertical movement than with a German knife. With a French style knife you use more of the edge with your cuts.

You won't notice much of a difference between an 11" Sabatier and 300mm Hiromoto gyuto if you're processing 2 potatoes. You will if you process 200.
I must admit that I have never chopped up more than a half dozen potatoes. I do know that the less wedging, the smoother and easier the cut - friction. I also don't know much about how the wrist comes into play. My wrists feel fine. However, I would absolutely love to see what comments would be observed if you would copy and paste your above post here , for better or worse, to see what some pros have to say about it.
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Right on. I would not want to take a picture with an inferior camera. You got it Scotch, even if you didn't mean it that way.

Yes, knives are tools, and the best tools produce the best works in accomplished hands. No argument there. There is more to cooking than blindly following the recipe....

There is a great amount of pleasure using a tool, in this case a knife, that does its job better than others. You may not agree, but don't tell me that my "unusual approach" is wrong.

What sort of knives do you collect, and, more importantly, why?

Edit: you didn't answer my question re "too sharp". Please explain that to me.

Buzz
But I'll bet I can take a better photo with an "inferior camera" such as my old Pentax Spotmatic 35mm, than you can with they latest Nikon or Canon digital DSL. The true art is in the photographer's eye, not the lens on his camera (e.g., Ansel Adams). As they say, it's not the gun, it's the gunner, and in my experience, the guy who's all hung up on his gun generally ain't much of a hunter.

As for "too sharp," I have at least one Japanese Santuko that was so sharp when I got it that it routine caught in the cutting board, damaging the surface of the board but not doing any better job of slicing carrots. It's dangerous when a knife catches like than and then slips, so I've taken it down a notch or two.

But if really sharp knives and slicing up stuff is what you like about cooking, more power to you -- just don't put down others who fail to see the need to buy such exotic toys to dice their onions.

I have 100s of knives in my collection, which is worth a great deal of money. I specialize in folding knives, but I have many others, including the 15" dagger of handmade Damascus steel below. I collect them because I like them, and I know a thing or two about sharpening them -- but that has little to do with cooking.

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Old 01-20-2009, 12:11 AM   #33
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But I'll bet I can take a better photo with an "inferior camera" such as my old Pentax Spotmatic 35mm, than you can with they latest Nikon or Canon digital DSL. The true art is in the photographer's eye, not the lens on his camera (e.g., Ansel Adams). As they say, it's not the gun, it's the gunner, and in my experience, the guy who's all hung up on his gun generally ain't much of a hunter.
Scotch, don't be so sensitive. Take all the pix you want and I hope you make a million like Adams did. This is a discussion so let's get into it. As to guns, you picked a poor analogy. I was born of a North Dakota hunting family and was making custom, SS barreled, nickel plated action all weather rifles before the major makers even knew there was a market for such appropriate tools. With proper glass bedding, and with custom handloads, they are far better than factory rifles, just like custom handmade Japanese knives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
As for "too sharp," I have at least one Japanese Santuko that was so sharp when I got it that it routine caught in the cutting board, damaging the surface of the board but not doing any better job of slicing carrots. It's dangerous when a knife catches like than and then slips, so I've taken it down a notch or two.
It's spelled "Santoku". If your blade stuck in the board your technique was incorrect, pure and simple. You were probably twisting the blade on retraction, a common newbie problem. Practice makes perfect so keep on trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
But if really sharp knives and slicing up stuff is what you like about cooking, more power to you -- just don't put down others who fail to see the need to buy such exotic toys to dice their onions.
I never meant to "put down others". If I did, quote it and I'll edit and/or apologize for it.

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Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
I have 100s of knives in my collection, which is worth a great deal of money. I specialize in folding knives, but I have many others, including the 15" dagger of handmade Damascus steel below. I collect them because I like them, and I know a thing or two about sharpening them -- but that has little to do with cooking.
[/QUOTE]

How about a picture of your collection rather than some web site sales pic. I'd love to see them. And you said "and I know a thing or two about sharpening them", tell me, how do you do that?
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:26 AM   #34
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As they say, it's not the gun, it's the gunner, and in my experience, the guy who's all hung up on his gun generally ain't much of a hunter.


wow, I didn't know we we're going to see insults in this thread

BTW...knives, making them is what I do for a living (thats why I'm "hung up" on them)
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:55 AM   #35
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I just been and got myself 3 different Wusthof Knifes in the Classic Range.. Are these good knifes?
Aren't you glad you asked? You've been hijacked. Yeah, your knives are okay, not great, just good. Use them and enjoy. You can make them very sharp but in doing so the edge will not last very long because of the soft steel from which they are made. It's just a fact of life but if your use is merely in a home kitchen they will last an adequate time before needing resharpening.

Cook well,
Buzz
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:11 AM   #36
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I must admit that I have never chopped up more than a half dozen potatoes. I do know that the less wedging, the smoother and easier the cut - friction. I also don't know much about how the wrist comes into play. My wrists feel fine. However, I would absolutely love to see what comments would be observed if you would copy and paste your above post here , for better or worse, to see what some pros have to say about it.
If you're just hacking straight down then there is more friction, but if you're taking long even cuts then you do get the benefit of wedging without any significant loss of cutting efficiency.

Also the heavy robust blade does allow you to punish the Sabatier in ways you wouldn't dream of with a Japanese knife. I've used my trusty Sab as a cleaver, which is just something I just wouldn't consider doing to a Japanese knife

I also find that Japanese knives are far more "skittish" than Sabatiers.
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:25 AM   #37
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OK this back and forth has to stop now. This thread is about if Wustoff makes a good knife. Lets please stick to that. If you would like to debate the pro's and con's of Japanese vs German vs French, sharp vs not as sharp, or anything other than the OP's question then please start a new thread. Any subsequent posts about anything other than the OP's question will be removed.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by rookies View Post
Hi All

I am new to this forum but I have been into cooking for a while now and I love cooking and taking my time and making fancy foods...

I just been and got myself 3 different Wusthof Knifes in the Classic Range.. Are these good knifes? Alot of people told me to get them, as I was going to go for global but after borrowing one on the Global I just did not like it gave me blisters and the handle I did not like at all..

I am hoping you guys who knows about these things are going to say what I have got are Great
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Originally Posted by Jeekinz View Post
The Lamsons I have are very durable. I only use them on wood or plastic cutting boards. I use my 8" French style chef's knife everyday and only need to sharpen it on a stone once or twice a year. I've used it to open tin cans and coconuts and it still holds an edge. All of their knives have a well balanced feel to them. The only knife I have that I don't particularly like is my 6" utility knife. Not that it's bad quality, but it's too big to use like a paring knife and too small to use like a chef knife. I bought it for the wife anyway. I can do 99% of my work with the chef knife. Even using the tip like a paring knife for delicate work.

You can find some decent deals on Ebay if you don't want to pay msrp. You won't be dissapointed.

These are the forged LamonSharp "Silver" line.

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Old 01-20-2009, 10:44 AM   #39
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I have one Wusthof, a cheap, stamped, bolsterless 5-inch chef's knife that came with a cutting board. It's become my mom's favorite knife. She uses it for almost everything in the kitchen, and it's still pretty sharp. I say "pretty sharp," because she abuses the heck out of it so often (dishwasher, cutting on plates, etc) that all I do is use a crock stick on it anymore. So, that's pretty much it in a nutshell: perfect for Mom.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:10 AM   #40
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Boy, did you stumble on to it....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rookies View Post
Hi All

I am new to this forum but I have been into cooking for a while now and I love cooking and taking my time and making fancy foods...

I just been and got myself 3 different Wusthof Knifes in the Classic Range.. Are these good knifes? Alot of people told me to get them, as I was going to go for global but after borrowing one on the Global I just did not like it gave me blisters and the handle I did not like at all..

I am hoping you guys who knows about these things are going to say what I have got are Great
...betcha got more than you bargained for, huh? GB put the whammy on it but I think one can learn a lot from passionate discussion, even from the original subject. I have had the Wusthof knives for thirty years and for common use they are fine. I can shave my arm with them. However, they don't hold that edge that long. Which brings me to the question, directly after use I cleaned the knife, then went directly to the steel. It almost seems to have dulled the edge. Discussted, put it in the block and, to my surprise the next day, it is razor sharp. How'd that happen?
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