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Old 08-06-2010, 10:52 PM   #31
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Not sure what happened to my post but I'll try again.

KarenSue, I read your posts. I can tell you why they changed their instructions. It has nothing to do with pushing folks to buy canners, or folks not following the directions meticulously. It has everything to do with modern science and research. There is a post of mine a few back that has a link to botulism in it. Thats why they don't suggest canning as we used to.

When they gave us those canning instructions it was because that was the best information they had at the time. They now have more information, thus the instructions have changed. Simple really.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:01 PM   #32
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boiling-water-bath-for-jam-and-jelly-or-not

After sharing my views RE: the water canning process for jams and jellies versus the invert method, I wrote to Kraft, the maker of the product called Certo, that I use when making jams and jellies, to get their professional point of view and below is their reply. Although currently they note recommending the water bath method, the invert method that they recommended years past must also still be an acceptable alternative, for they have included those instructions as well. Based on their response, I still believe, if done correctly, as their instructions so state and in sanitary conditions, this is a safe alternative for canning jams and jellies. If it wasn't and there was a chance that someome could become gravely ill or die as the result of using the invert method, I am sure that Kraft would have made it a point to clearly say so, rather than provide me the 'correct' instructions on how to properly use the invert method succesfully. One of the main things to remember with using this method is that you must fill the sterilized jars with the boiling hot jam or jelly 'immediately.' You don't stop to answer the phone, the door or do anything else until the jars are filled and sealed and inverted. Karen Sue



Subject:Re: Your Comment/Question Case ID: 20831216Date:8/9/2010 11:58:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight TimeFrom:Onlineteam2@casupport.comReply To:To:wkjbiida@aol.com



Thank You for Contacting Us!

Hi Karen,


Thank you for visiting Kraft Foods - great recipes and meal ideas from Kraft Foods and letting me know of your request.

The Kraft Kitchens Recommends the Water Bath Method as it's what we've developed and tested.

INVERSION METHOD
Wash jars (Keep jars hot in 200F oven or leave in hot water); Sterilize in boiling water 10 minutes

Bring pot of water containing lids and bands to a boil and then turn off heat

Fill hot, sterilized jars to 1/8 inch of top with mixture

It's important to work quickly to fill jars

Wipe jar rims and threads, cover quickly with lids and screw bands tightly

Invert jars for 5 minutes, then turn upright

After 1 hour, check seals; store in cool dry place

If you havenít done so already, please add our site to your favorites and visit us again soon!

Kim McMiller
Associate Director, Consumer Relations

~~TLXEA_20831216~~Y

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Old 08-09-2010, 06:01 PM   #33
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Thanks for this information. I have previously noted that I spoke to a pectin manufacturer on the phone. The insert in her product says to process in a boiling water bath but she told me that with properly acidulated jams & jellies you don't have to. I think she was trying to cover all bases.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:20 PM   #34
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RE: Water Canning or not/Jams and jellies

Dear DaizyMae, You're Welcome. I have used the inverted method when canning jams and jellies for years with no problem, just as you and your mom have, but in view of all of the negative responses I got, I took the time to contact Kraft and read up on all of the facts and I too learned a few things that I didn't know before. Apparently the inverted method of canning jams and jellies always has been and still is very popular in the European countries. Also until receiving the answer to my inquiry from Kraft I never knew that you can keep your sterilized jars hot in a 200 degree oven. As they say we learn something new everyday. Have a Great Week! KarenSue
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenSue View Post
If it wasn't and there was a chance that someome could become gravely ill or die as the result of using the invert method, I am sure that Kraft would have made it a point to clearly say so, rather than provide the correct instructions...
So your idea of researching the safety of this technique is to ask the corporation that stands to profit from you using their product as often as possible if it is ok. That is like asking Apple if it s safe to use an iPod in a car. Of course they will say yes. They certainly will not highlight that people die all the time because they are distracted by looking for a song and take their eyes off the road and get into an accident.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:01 PM   #36
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Dear GB, Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and apparently we disagree and no doubt I am sure I did far more research than you did. Having made jams and jellies for over 50 years and having used both the water canning method as well as the inverted method, with no fatalities thus far either way, I am confident that no matter which method I use, all those I choose to share it with will be safe from harm! As I stated in a previous post, I believe that this is a safe method if done right and in sanitary conditions, so to each is own. You make your's your way and I will do the same. Thanks for your input...KarenSue
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:21 PM   #37
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Dear GB,...P.S. Yes my idea in part when researching the safety of the inverted method for making jams and jellies was to ask the corporation that stands to profit from me using their product, but they would have nothing to loose as the result of their reply to me because Certo is used in making jam and jelly regardless of whether you use the water bath method or the inverted process and I would use it either way. Based on your post to me, that suggests Kraft would tell me what I want to hear to insure that I would use their product, I am not quite sure that you even know what Certo is or what it is used for and I wonder if you have ever even made any jam or jelly??? KarenSue
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #38
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KarenSue, I would appreciate you sticking to the facts and not turning this into something personal, thank you. You do not know the first thing about me or what I know about the subject.

I will continue to make mine in a way that science had shown to be safe and will not rely on the "no one has ever gotten sick from my way" school of thought since that is impossible to prove and is as dangerous as saying my grandmother smoked for 40 years and never got cancer so it must be OK to do.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:58 AM   #39
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Boiling water bath for jam and jelly or not?

Dear GB, In my Post to which you responded, I shared the information that I received from Kraft and in my reply to you I did not take your opinion personal, but just simply and honestly responded to your 'personal' accusations. As I said before, we are all entitled to our opinion. I have shared mine, you have shared yours and that said, I see no point in continuing this debate, for that is really not what this web site is suppose to be about. Have a great week! KarenSue
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:22 PM   #40
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KarenSue, I would appreciate you sticking to the facts and not turning this into something personal, thank you. You do not know the first thing about me or what I know about the subject.
I was wondering if Alix or GB know something, something that they aren't revealing? Some secret knowledge of the dangers of the inversion jam method? Is there any evidence that this is actually dangerous? If there is evidence, then please share it.

I'm in Logan Utah and when canning tomatoes and tomato soup and tomato based salsa I really didn't want to bother pressure cooking; boiling water bath is so much easier (kinda like inversion is easier than boiling water bath). So I called up the Utah State University Extension office and asked how much low acid food can I put in and still be safe. They told me 1/3 would be fine (with 2/3rds tomatoes) but 1/4 would make it certain. This is NOT the advice you would get from canning companies. They tend to error on the side of their lawyers, rather than science.


And thanks KarenSue for the info on keeping the jars hot in the oven, I hadn't thought about that.
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