Designing a Seasonal Canning Kitchen
- Thread starter Diavolicchio
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
I've already designed the kitchen over the past two weeks with the help of a handful of canning folks from a couple other online forums. None of whom, I might add, are architects.
For the record, a professional wasn't necessary. All that was necessary were a few creative minds who really understood canning and were willing to provide input about the optimal way they'd layout and equip a small canning kitchen space to maximize its usability.
The only reason this particular thread is active on here is because someone finally responded to the original post today, 2 1/2 weeks after I originally posted it.
Let's just consider this thread now dead, shall we?
John
Attitude gets you nowhere.
This thread may be dead but I could'nt resist complimenting you on how you deal with people.When I first joined this site I was total jerk.I asked a question and when I diddnt get the responce I wanted I acted like a baby.I guess it's personal problem.I have since learned to take the advice ,or lack there of for what its worth.We don't read minds nor can we design something that is clearly allready decided.I have been in the cabinet buisiness for 16 years and never canned a thing.Get pull out shelfs in the lower cabs and full runs of upper cabs.I would assume canneing is like cooking.When you need stuff you take it out and when your done you put it away.As for my compliment thanks for being an even bigger jerk than I was.Do as I did and appoligize and wait for the next know it all to join and you will gladly hand them the crown.Good luck,you wont have it long.
This thread may be dead but I could'nt resist complimenting you on how you deal with people.When I first joined this site I was total jerk.I asked a question and when I diddnt get the responce I wanted I acted like a baby.I guess it's personal problem.I have since learned to take the advice ,or lack there of for what its worth.We don't read minds nor can we design something that is clearly allready decided.I have been in the cabinet buisiness for 16 years and never canned a thing.Get pull out shelfs in the lower cabs and full runs of upper cabs.I would assume canneing is like cooking.When you need stuff you take it out and when your done you put it away.As for my compliment thanks for being an even bigger jerk than I was.Do as I did and appoligize and wait for the next know it all to join and you will gladly hand them the crown.Good luck,you wont have it long.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
OK folks.... let's try to stay on topic of the original post.
John, do you anticipate having more than one person in this space at a time?
Do you have any layout limitations based on plumbing?
Personally I like to have several distinct work spaces and where canning is concerned locating a large sink so that you could use both sides might be useful. I might try to put a very wide sink diagonally in a corner to maximize space. SInce you will be canning and have things to drain and cool, a counter (or sink) that has a built in drainboard might be nice.
John, do you anticipate having more than one person in this space at a time?
Do you have any layout limitations based on plumbing?
Personally I like to have several distinct work spaces and where canning is concerned locating a large sink so that you could use both sides might be useful. I might try to put a very wide sink diagonally in a corner to maximize space. SInce you will be canning and have things to drain and cool, a counter (or sink) that has a built in drainboard might be nice.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
I appreciate the input, but the kitchen is already designed.
Out of curiosity though, why would you place a stove or a cooktop butted directly up against a side wall, especially if it has gas burners? Aren't you just asking for scorched walls? Further, if the pots or pans being used have handles, you're got an extra disadvantage of them hitting the adjacent wall.
John
If I were setting this up I would spend some time working these issues:
Storage for large items: I would personally have cabinets above counters and open storage below counters. This would accommodate large canning pots and also give some storage for boxes or containers of produce waiting to be processed.
Counter surface: Something that will hold up under heat and not scratch or mar if a heavy item is dragged across... (think boxes with sandy bottoms).
Waste management: Tough issue - there's likely to be a good bit from cleaning produce. I have bin built into my counter that works well but you have to be careful to locate these where you are actually going to work.
Easy clean floors. They are likely to get wet.
Great lighting.
I would leave room for a wall clock and chalk/white board. I recently saw some cabinets in a hobby room redone with chalk board paint on the doors. Great way to label the contents
Thats why I said I was torn in my PM to you. As for scortched walls, I would put stanless steel around the stove top. But you are correct about room on both sides of the stove for handles. I am experiencing that in my home right now. But certainly a small counter section would come in handy for handle room and spoon placement. However, it needs to be ofset from the sing or you will get butt to butt accidents.
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
Just out of curiosity, if you are building small house you probably have a small family so why do you need to do so much cannig. It ireally is an honest question. I have 5 kids and would love to do more canning, but i just cannot afford the space to store it, so my canning is minimal, mostly jams and some pickling.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
that's nice. I wish i could add another kitchen, good luck.
In reading what you and Janet have written, I am wondering if the counter side with the utility sink would be best in stainless steel, or at least a large area on either side of the sink. This could help with the cleaning and chopping, etc. Are you going to have one sink or a double?
I mention these items because my niece and nephew are great canners - I have given all my equipment to them and in return I am stocked with some wonderful treasures each year. They turned part of the basement suite in the house they bought into a canning kitchen. They were able to obtain a double utility sink with long stainless counter from his work and find in invaluable when they are turning 50 pounds or so of tomatoes into salsa, sauce, etc.
I like Janet's suggestion of the whiteboard or blackboard paint. My nephew has a giant corkboard for scheduling, inventory, etc.
Another item that may be of interest to you is if you could get hold of a bar-sized dishwasher for sterilizing your jars. They have been looking for one for a long time since a friend uses one - no soap, just a hot water cycle to make sure they are ready to go, specially if you are dealing in volume.
In my days of canning I would have loved an area where I could work on it without having to work around regular cooking in my kitchen. My major item was apples, since we had five trees (one which we got married under), though I did a pile of jam, pickles and tomatoes as well.
I know your room is mostly designed, but I just came across this and thought I would add my two cents. Good luck with it and post pictures when you are done!
I mention these items because my niece and nephew are great canners - I have given all my equipment to them and in return I am stocked with some wonderful treasures each year. They turned part of the basement suite in the house they bought into a canning kitchen. They were able to obtain a double utility sink with long stainless counter from his work and find in invaluable when they are turning 50 pounds or so of tomatoes into salsa, sauce, etc.
I like Janet's suggestion of the whiteboard or blackboard paint. My nephew has a giant corkboard for scheduling, inventory, etc.
Another item that may be of interest to you is if you could get hold of a bar-sized dishwasher for sterilizing your jars. They have been looking for one for a long time since a friend uses one - no soap, just a hot water cycle to make sure they are ready to go, specially if you are dealing in volume.
In my days of canning I would have loved an area where I could work on it without having to work around regular cooking in my kitchen. My major item was apples, since we had five trees (one which we got married under), though I did a pile of jam, pickles and tomatoes as well.
I know your room is mostly designed, but I just came across this and thought I would add my two cents. Good luck with it and post pictures when you are done!
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
LPBeier:
Thanks for taking the time to make some thoughtful suggestions. Yes, this little canning kitchen is pretty much designed at this point, but if there are a few tweaks that could still make it better, I'd be foolish to ignore them.
The one suggestion you made that I'd not considered was the bar-sized dishwasher. It still may be overkill, given that the location of the main kitchen in the house is just 5 or 6 feet away from this canning kitchen, and the dishwasher about 20 feet. I'm trying to avoid duplicate appliances where there's not an absolute reason for spending the money on them.
After your suggestion though, I did a search for small dishwasher and discovered one that may be worth considering. It's only 18" wide so it would basically take up the space of just on standard-sized cupboard. I'd probably only use the hot water cycle on it, too. I guess the question is whether there's really a benefit to giving up some already limited storage space to accommodate what may be a redundant appliance.
Here's the particular model.
I'm familiar with many of the drawer dishwashers out there that are twice as wide and half as high as this model above, but I'd prefer going with a skinnier dishwasher, rather than a shallower one.
My original thoughts had been to simply using the main dishwasher in the house to sterilize jars, since it's close. I'd have a simple pair of wooden crates made, much like bushel apple boxes but with the wood sealed, each sized to hold exactly a case of canning jars. I'd sterilize the jars in the main kitchen, carry them into the canning kitchen 20 feet away, and slide each box into an open shelving space beneath one of the counters sized to fit it (or possible on a open shelf above the counter.)
The question is whether the benefit is really there to justify spending the extra money on this second dishwasher.
I'm open to feedback.
* * * * *
As for the basic design of the kitchen itself . . .
1) The room will indeed be 8’ x 7’, comprised of a 24" wide U-shaped counter that wraps around the little kitchen on three sides, with a 3’ x 6’ aisle inside of the U.
2) Directly opposite the door, at the bottom of the U, will be a 33" wide double sink with 12" deep bowls. The sink will have a commercial faucet system with a pull-down spray head. The model of sink I’ll be going with will be this one:
3) I’ll definitely be adding a wall-mount pot filler behind the cooktop to be able to fill large pots while directly on the cooktop. The model of pot filler I’ll be going with will be this one:
4) Floor will be tile with central drain to enable the floor to be hosed down to be cleaned.
5) I’ve gotten rid of the original 2 burner idea I'd considered, and have upgraded to a 5-burner cooktop which will be center along the left counter top. The cooktop will have two 9,500 BTU burners, one 14,000 BTU burner, one that adjusts from 5,000 to 1,200 BTUs, and a powerful central burner that adjusts from 18,000 to 450 BTUs. The cooktop will be this model specifically:
6) I’ll be designing the cupboard space beneath the counters to maximize their storage capacity. To do so, I’ll be adding two Hafele storage units that will take full advantage of the ‘blind space’ in the far two corners of the room beneath the counters. I’ll be going specifically with these Hafele LeMans units:
7) The long countertop on the right side of the room will be for cooling, labeling and packing. The top shelf of the storage area beneath it will accommodate a couple wooden boxes, each the size of a case of quart canning jars, so I can easily sterilize the jars in the main kitchen and carry them to a shelf in the canning kitchen to be stored out of the way until needed.
8) I'll be adding a large butcher block to the counter space between the sink and the cooktop, and will be cutting a hole (probably 6" wide) in the counter top, right next to the butcher block, so any organic material to be composted can drop through the counter into a large composting bucket, much like this set-up:
9) The room will ventilate both via a 12" x 72" awning window above the cooktop, as well as through a powerful ventilation fan in the ceiling that has a built-in humidity censor.
This indeed will be a small canning kitchen and run the risk of feeling a bit cramped, however there will only be one person using it at a time. I think if I clean as I go, and keep everything in its proper place, out of the way, this little kitchen should be capable of great things.
John
Thanks for taking the time to make some thoughtful suggestions. Yes, this little canning kitchen is pretty much designed at this point, but if there are a few tweaks that could still make it better, I'd be foolish to ignore them.
The one suggestion you made that I'd not considered was the bar-sized dishwasher. It still may be overkill, given that the location of the main kitchen in the house is just 5 or 6 feet away from this canning kitchen, and the dishwasher about 20 feet. I'm trying to avoid duplicate appliances where there's not an absolute reason for spending the money on them.
After your suggestion though, I did a search for small dishwasher and discovered one that may be worth considering. It's only 18" wide so it would basically take up the space of just on standard-sized cupboard. I'd probably only use the hot water cycle on it, too. I guess the question is whether there's really a benefit to giving up some already limited storage space to accommodate what may be a redundant appliance.
Here's the particular model.
I'm familiar with many of the drawer dishwashers out there that are twice as wide and half as high as this model above, but I'd prefer going with a skinnier dishwasher, rather than a shallower one.
My original thoughts had been to simply using the main dishwasher in the house to sterilize jars, since it's close. I'd have a simple pair of wooden crates made, much like bushel apple boxes but with the wood sealed, each sized to hold exactly a case of canning jars. I'd sterilize the jars in the main kitchen, carry them into the canning kitchen 20 feet away, and slide each box into an open shelving space beneath one of the counters sized to fit it (or possible on a open shelf above the counter.)
The question is whether the benefit is really there to justify spending the extra money on this second dishwasher.
I'm open to feedback.
* * * * *
As for the basic design of the kitchen itself . . .
1) The room will indeed be 8’ x 7’, comprised of a 24" wide U-shaped counter that wraps around the little kitchen on three sides, with a 3’ x 6’ aisle inside of the U.
2) Directly opposite the door, at the bottom of the U, will be a 33" wide double sink with 12" deep bowls. The sink will have a commercial faucet system with a pull-down spray head. The model of sink I’ll be going with will be this one:
3) I’ll definitely be adding a wall-mount pot filler behind the cooktop to be able to fill large pots while directly on the cooktop. The model of pot filler I’ll be going with will be this one:
4) Floor will be tile with central drain to enable the floor to be hosed down to be cleaned.
5) I’ve gotten rid of the original 2 burner idea I'd considered, and have upgraded to a 5-burner cooktop which will be center along the left counter top. The cooktop will have two 9,500 BTU burners, one 14,000 BTU burner, one that adjusts from 5,000 to 1,200 BTUs, and a powerful central burner that adjusts from 18,000 to 450 BTUs. The cooktop will be this model specifically:
6) I’ll be designing the cupboard space beneath the counters to maximize their storage capacity. To do so, I’ll be adding two Hafele storage units that will take full advantage of the ‘blind space’ in the far two corners of the room beneath the counters. I’ll be going specifically with these Hafele LeMans units:
7) The long countertop on the right side of the room will be for cooling, labeling and packing. The top shelf of the storage area beneath it will accommodate a couple wooden boxes, each the size of a case of quart canning jars, so I can easily sterilize the jars in the main kitchen and carry them to a shelf in the canning kitchen to be stored out of the way until needed.
8) I'll be adding a large butcher block to the counter space between the sink and the cooktop, and will be cutting a hole (probably 6" wide) in the counter top, right next to the butcher block, so any organic material to be composted can drop through the counter into a large composting bucket, much like this set-up:
9) The room will ventilate both via a 12" x 72" awning window above the cooktop, as well as through a powerful ventilation fan in the ceiling that has a built-in humidity censor.
This indeed will be a small canning kitchen and run the risk of feeling a bit cramped, however there will only be one person using it at a time. I think if I clean as I go, and keep everything in its proper place, out of the way, this little kitchen should be capable of great things.
John
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
Will the large canner pot you will be using fit into the two compartments of the double sink.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
This is where I've got to make some concessions. Each bowl in that sink is only 16" x 13 1/2" which is too small for the canners pots I'd consider using. I want to at least be able to can at least 14 quarts at a time--ideally 18. So rather than downgrading to a canner that will actually fit into the sink to clean it, I've decided that to simply get a good quality commercial kitchen faucet with a pull-down metal handspray, much like this one:
. . . to give me more flexibility for cleaning huge pots, even if I simply have to tilt them onto their side over the sink and spray them out to clean them.
John
. . . to give me more flexibility for cleaning huge pots, even if I simply have to tilt them onto their side over the sink and spray them out to clean them.
John
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
You could consider a single tub sink and that would give you the size you need.
Also, a single or double tub sink with integral ribbed draining surfaces on both sides that allow water to run off directly into a sink tub.
Also, a single or double tub sink with integral ribbed draining surfaces on both sides that allow water to run off directly into a sink tub.
Awesome post!
I love cabinet talk.You can not go wrong with Hafele.You were asking for ideas and ended up teaching me something new.Thank you.I guess there are more things to consider when you can.The high fawcet for filling pots is a great idea.I think you were just seeking reassurance when all along you know what your doing and what you need.Just let your builder know your needs and consult with the cabinet supplier to see all of your options.Semi custom is allways an option.Good luck on the project John.Id love to design my own kitchen.As the others said reconsider your sink choice,send photos and I'd love to hear from you on any cabinet questions.No hard feelings ok.
I love cabinet talk.You can not go wrong with Hafele.You were asking for ideas and ended up teaching me something new.Thank you.I guess there are more things to consider when you can.The high fawcet for filling pots is a great idea.I think you were just seeking reassurance when all along you know what your doing and what you need.Just let your builder know your needs and consult with the cabinet supplier to see all of your options.Semi custom is allways an option.Good luck on the project John.Id love to design my own kitchen.As the others said reconsider your sink choice,send photos and I'd love to hear from you on any cabinet questions.No hard feelings ok.
OP
OP
Diavolicchio
Assistant Cook
Andy:
I've looked at the Advance Tabco ones, and they're not cheap. If I were to buy one new (and that's the plan), a commercial sink with a single 24" x 24" x 12" bowl and a 36" drainboard on the right side ( like this one ) would set me back $1,350.00. And I would only go with the drainboard on the one side because I need the counter space on the other.
It's a good suggestion. The question is whether it's sheer overkill for a sink.
John
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
The drainboard would be more important with the double tub sink.
