Head space and lid questions

[taxlady]

@Dawgluver - oops! Didn't see your post. You think I have too MUCH headspace? Mom always told me 1 inch, and I never thought to ask questions. I can't ask her now, she doesn't remember much about cooking. My recipe is almost identical to CharlieD's. Clean and sterilize jars, wash and prepare cukes, garlic and dill. Fill jars. Boil 4c distilled water and 1/4 cup coarse salt, pour over cukes while boiling. Place rings and seal finger tight. Wait for pop and you're set.

@sparrowgrass, thanks! We go through these pickles like there is no tomorrow because we don't get them often. Thanks for the link.

Hmmm...now I want to try one with 1/2 inch headspace. I may have to go get some baby cukes on my shopping trip later.

No boiling water bath?

 

[Alix]

This recipe doesn't call for water bath processing. I've done it both ways. With and without. These days I'd say yes, water bath them. Follow the chart for whatever jar size you use.

 

[JMediger]

I go 1/2" from the top of the jar (actually I eye-ball it to the bottom of the threads which is about 1/2"). I've looked at the glass jars and tops from Weck (WeckJars.com) for my tomatoes but think I'm too OCD to not have that "tink" sound from the lid popping to know they were actually sealed.

I wonder if your lid is just "stuck" from having sugar on your rim or something. I had a friend last year want to learn how to can so I had her help with tomatoes. I had several not seal the first time because of a seed or bit of tomato she had missed when wiping the rims. I hate wasting the lid but it is easy to wipe down and throw a new lid on to reseal.

 

[Dawgluver]

I go 1/2" from the top of the jar (actually I eye-ball it to the bottom of the threads which is about 1/2"). I've looked at the glass jars and tops from Weck (WeckJars.com) for my tomatoes but think I'm too OCD to not have that "tink" sound from the lid popping to know they were actually sealed.

I wonder if your lid is just "stuck" from having sugar on your rim or something. I had a friend last year want to learn how to can so I had her help with tomatoes. I had several not seal the first time because of a seed or bit of tomato she had missed when wiping the rims. I hate wasting the lid but it is easy to wipe down and throw a new lid on to reseal.

I agree, both with the tink and with something under the rim. I've been thwarted by a dill seed under the rim.

I think if Alix processed the jars that didn't seal in a water bath or steam canner with new lids, they would probably seal.

 

[Alix]

They probably would seal, but we are way past time for that now. Not to mention reprocessed pickles are just nasty. They are mush.

Its possible that there might be a sliver of dill under a lid, but definitely no seeds. I don't use dill seed, nor the tops of dill. I use strictly the leafy bits.

 

[Dawgluver]

They probably would seal, but we are way past time for that now. Not to mention reprocessed pickles are just nasty. They are mush.

Its possible that there might be a sliver of dill under a lid, but definitely no seeds. I don't use dill seed, nor the tops of dill. I use strictly the leafy bits.

Yup, too late now!

I was thinking, since they weren't processed in the first place, it may just work the next time, if you caught them soon enough.

 

[BlairsDen]

Last Wednesday wifeypoo and I canned 14 pints of pickles that came from our garden.
A couple tips we learned throughout the years:
1) never buy the rings and top lids from Walmart or the dollar store. We did a couple years ago and had almost 25% of them not seal. So pay a couple cents more and go with the BALL lids.
2) after putting the Cucs and the Hot garlic brine into the jar, carefully wipe the top of the jar with Vinegar before placing the lid on.
3)this year we've had 100% success with the hot bath processing with Pickles and Beets.
4) next week we are canning about 20 Qts of Potatoes. They require the Pressure Cooker to do, as does our Chili, Beef Stew and Chicken Soup (really we call it a Stoup because its more like a stew and a soup combined).

 

[Alix]

We don't have Ball lids here, we have Bernardin.

 

[Alix]

Yup, too late now!

I was thinking, since they weren't processed in the first place, it may just work the next time, if you caught them soon enough.

They were processed.

I've done the reprocess bit ONCE before. Never, EVER again. Those were the most disgusting pickles ever. The jars sealed on the second round and the pickles LOOKED fine, but they were limp, soggy and you could bounce them they were so rubbery. UGH. Now if they don't seal on the first round we just toss them in the fridge and go that way.

I am thinking that my issues this time had to be due to headspace. I will be more vigilant with the next batch.

I will use the disposable lids after reading about all the issues with the glass lids. I have to admit, I've only had issues with the glass lids once and it was a bad batch of sealer rings. Still, better safe than sorry. I just hate to be wasteful and it feels wasteful to use disposable lids when I have a crapload of the glass lids.

Any idea why they still sell the rubber sealer rings if the glass lids are considered so unsafe? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Dawgluver]

They were processed.

I've done the reprocess bit ONCE before. Never, EVER again. Those were the most disgusting pickles ever. The jars sealed on the second round and the pickles LOOKED fine, but they were limp, soggy and you could bounce them they were so rubbery. UGH. Now if they don't seal on the first round we just toss them in the fridge and go that way.

I am thinking that my issues this time had to be due to headspace. I will be more vigilant with the next batch.

I will use the disposable lids after reading about all the issues with the glass lids. I have to admit, I've only had issues with the glass lids once and it was a bad batch of sealer rings. Still, better safe than sorry. I just hate to be wasteful and it feels wasteful to use disposable lids when I have a crapload of the glass lids.

Any idea why they still sell the rubber sealer rings if the glass lids are considered so unsafe? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I think it's to store dry stuff. They look so much prettier than the disposables.

 

[taxlady]

Have you considered getting BPA-free lids? There some reusable ones: BPA-free canning lids | Food | What you can do | David Suzuki Foundation and Bernardin has started making them.

 

[Alix]

I think it's to store dry stuff. They look so much prettier than the disposables.

*forehead slap* I guess you can tell I'm not much of a decorator. I never thought of that. Sheesh.

Have you considered getting BPA-free lids? There some reusable ones: BPA-free canning lids | Food | What you can do | David Suzuki Foundation and Bernardin has started making them.

That's a wonderful idea! Thanks so much taxlady!

 

[JMediger]

I've done the reprocess bit ONCE before. Never, EVER again. Those were the most disgusting pickles ever. The jars sealed on the second round and the pickles LOOKED fine, but they were limp, soggy and you could bounce them they were so rubbery. UGH. Now if they don't seal on the first round we just toss them in the fridge and go that way.

This is one of the reasons I don't do "regular" pickles very often. It seems I have to reprocess often and end up with the same results as you. I stick to just a huge batch of refrigerator pickles and they last us a good 6 months.

I will use the disposable lids after reading about all the issues with the glass lids. I have to admit, I've only had issues with the glass lids once and it was a bad batch of sealer rings. Still, better safe than sorry. I just hate to be wasteful and it feels wasteful to use disposable lids when I have a crapload of the glass lids.

Any idea why they still sell the rubber sealer rings if the glass lids are considered so unsafe? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I haven't read that the glass lids are unsafe ... ? Where did you see that? I've heard more people going to them because of the recycling aspect and the fact the seal is rubber, not plastic. While I don't use them for canning (previously mentioned OCD need for the "tink" ), I would like to think I could try them at some point. I haven't seen the PBA free ones that were mentioned.

 

[Alix]

The Bernardin website, and most canning sites recommend that the glass lids and jars not be used because they are more difficult to seal and to determine if a seal has taken place. There is no "pink" sound when they seal.

There used to be all sorts of methods of sealing them. Flipping them over, tightening the bands SUPER tight then easing them off a 1/4 turn, and that sort of thing.

For most of my life, that is what I used to pickle, or make jam, and never had a problem. I'd sterilize my jars, and put the rings and lids into a pot of boiling water. I'd leave them on the boil while I was filling jars and making brine and then use my tongs (which had also been sitting in the water) to quickly pop them on my filled jars, crank on the lids and away we go. The processing was quick and easy after that. I think I have permanently erased my fingerprints with this method, but I'm not planning a life of crime so its all good. Maybe 2 jars in 15 would not seal correctly and we'd either reprocess (which I discovered is gross) or we'd slap them in the fridge and eat them first.

My problems began about 4 years ago. I'm not sure if the rings I have been able to purchase have been a different quality, or if there is another factor in play that I've not figured out. I had nearly ALL my jars refuse to seal. I think 2 actually DID seal. Then another year I had my entire batch of rings refuse to fit the lids. (I'd forgotten that one, just went through my journal and found my reference.) Weird. I've been trying out the disposable lids since. The green part of my soul really really doesn't like that, so I'm thinking of returning to the glass lids and take a chance.

OK folks, I'm not trying to start a war about botulism or canning practices or anything here. I am well aware of what current practices are, and how easy it is to make a mistake and kill myself or other family. I'm also a HUGE advocate of everyone following the current safety rules. Read up, and do what is safe people.

I myself am still going to experiment with my glass lids. I waffle back and forth because of all the reading I've done. My personal experiences however, support the fact that when properly done, the glass lids and rings have a higher percentage of sealed vs unsealed jars. So...I'm still on the fence about what my practice will become, but I AM going to do some small batch pickling with my lids to see if I can get them to work.

 

[Dawgluver]

My grandma used to use the open kettle method for some of her canning. My neighbor and her mother would reuse old mayonaise and jam jars for canning. Nobody died. And it now appears that you don't need to boil your jars anymore, the dishwasher works fine.

 

[Alix]

My dishwasher has a special sterilizing cycle. Man those jars are freaking HOT when they come out!

 

[Dawgluver]

Yes, but it's so much nicer than boiling them! I recycle my used lids with the tin cans.

Until this year, I've never had a problem with my jars sealing. Stupid dill seed....

 

[JMediger]

Alix, I follow the same process you do (boiling the lids and bands and tongs and then topping the jars).

Maybe we can start a "Living without the tink" support group for canning with glass lids .

Dawg, I feel your pain ...

 

[Raspberrymocha55]

I just stick to the lids with rings. I even use them on jams and jellies (mom used wax to seal those and I'm still alive almost 60 yrs later!) I recycle the lids, so there is no guilt. Safe rather than sorry. I use dishwasher to sterilize, too. But then, I use the sterilizer on every dishwasher load.

Need to go check what is in my pitiful garden. I feel like canning something, anything, today. If only there would be cukes to pickle. Fingers crossed!

 

[Alix]

Update:

I just did another batch of dill pickles and reduced my headspace and what do you know? EVERY JAR SEALED! Hallelujah!!

(I used the "tink" lids since I still had some)