"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Farm to Table > Canning and Preserving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-03-2008, 09:14 PM   #1
Cook
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 51
Question about acidity of this recipe.....

I know that when you add lemon juice or vinegar to a canning recipe, it's a necessity. It helps add acidity to the canning recipe, which inhibits the growth of bacteria, and thus is safe for somebody to consume.

I found a recipe for apricot-jalapeno jelly. It calls for 2 cups of cider vinegar. People who have made the recipe commented on the fact that
the amount of vinegar gave it a very acidic and vinegary taste (and that the vinegar overpowered the other flavors in the dish).

Now is there any possible way I could reduce the vinegar in the recipe so that you can taste the other ingredients in the canning recipe? I realize it's a necessity, but people won't eat it if it doesn't taste good.

__________________

__________________
essenceofeclectic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 09:24 PM   #2
Head Chef
 
mcnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,326
No! You must never alter a tested and verified canning recipe. If you want to make changes to a recipe....do so, but don't can it. Keep it in the refrigerator or freeze it instead.

I haven't tried that jelly, but all the recipes I see for it does call for 2 cups apply cider vinegar plus six cups of sugar. Could it be possible they used regular vinegar (harsh) instead or tried using less sugar? I'm not aware of any proper canning recipe that would taste as bad as you/they say unless something was changed.
__________________

__________________
Support bacteria. It's the only culture some people have.
mcnerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 09:54 PM   #3
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 3,381
I wouldn't try to chance changing it. I'd try to find another recipe you like. I did a Habanero Gold jelly last year with apricots that was great.
__________________
Practice safe lunch. Use a condiment.
Loprraine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2008, 12:22 PM   #4
Master Chef
 
jennyema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 9,256
Pick a different recipe. Here's a whole bunch: Pepperfool.com Jam & Jelly Recipes Recipes
__________________
Less is not more. More is more and more is fabulous.
jennyema is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 10:11 AM   #5
Senior Cook
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 246
Well I wouldn't be afraid to change the recipe. After all, someone wrote the recipe and you will be writing a derivative recipe.

First I might change from cider to white vinegar or I would try changing the ratio of sugar to acid. Acid is necessary to prevent Botulism but not to the levels of battery acid. I think you'lldo fine with some thoughtful changes.

Jennyema has listed a bunch of pickle recipes, which ought to give you a good path to steer as you make your own formulation.

Remember a simple brine will pickle, adding acid is more for long term preserving.
__________________
May you eat well,
Robert
Robt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #6
Senior Cook
 
mozart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 419
Most jellies have a water activity that is low enough to prevent the growth of botulism organisms and hence the production of toxin. In addition, this recipe most likely will have a very low PH which will also prevent bacterial growth.

I would not be too concerned about lowering the vinegar amount in this recipe until you get the taste you like. The sugar will tie up most of the water and lower the water activity to a safe level.

I would refrigerate after opening and not leave it on the shelf for years though.
__________________
mozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 07:22 PM   #7
Master Chef
 
Michael in FtW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,592
It is never prudent to reduce the level of acidity in anything you are canning that is processed in a boiling water canner.

Preservatives include salt, acid, and sugar - they are used in various amounts, and either alone or in combination, depending on the application.

The reason acid is added to a jelly recipe is to get it to gel - the primary preservative in this recipe (assuming it is the standard 2 cups vinegar and 6 cups sugar) is the sugar. To get a gel you need a balanced ratio of pectin/acid/sugar - plus time and heat. Reducing the acid generally results in a too soft gel, or it may not gel at all and you just wind up with a jar of syrup.

Taste is subjective - what some people think about this recipe may not agree with what you, or some others, think about it. I once made an orange marmalade that I thought was too bitter ... everyone who tasted it thought it was perfect and not bitter at all.
__________________
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
Michael in FtW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 07:45 PM   #8
Senior Cook
 
mozart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW View Post
It is never prudent to reduce the level of acidity in anything you are canning that is processed in a boiling water canner.

Preservatives include salt, acid, and sugar - they are used in various amounts, and either alone or in combination, depending on the application.

The reason acid is added to a jelly recipe is to get it to gel - the primary preservative in this recipe (assuming it is the standard 2 cups vinegar and 6 cups sugar) is the sugar. To get a gel you need a balanced ratio of pectin/acid/sugar - plus time and heat. Reducing the acid generally results in a too soft gel, or it may not gel at all and you just wind up with a jar of syrup.

Taste is subjective - what some people think about this recipe may not agree with what you, or some others, think about it. I once made an orange marmalade that I thought was too bitter ... everyone who tasted it thought it was perfect and not bitter at all.
While the acid may be necessary for gel to form, it is not necessary as a food safety consideration in this example, since the sugar will reduce the water activity and prevent pathogenic bacterial growth.

Therefore, reducing the acid somewhat and experimenting will not cause an unsafe product in this case, but may cause a change in the products utility.
__________________
mozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 08:22 PM   #9
Master Chef
 
Michael in FtW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart View Post
While the acid may be necessary for gel to form, it is not necessary as a food safety consideration in this example, since the sugar will reduce the water activity and prevent pathogenic bacterial growth.
Which is exactly why I said: "... the primary preservative in this recipe (assuming it is the standard 2 cups vinegar and 6 cups sugar) is the sugar."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Therefore, reducing the acid somewhat and experimenting will not cause an unsafe product in this case, but may cause a change in the products utility.
Which is exactly why I said: "The reason acid is added to a jelly recipe is to get it to gel ... Reducing the acid generally results in a too soft gel, or it may not gel at all and you just wind up with a jar of syrup."

essenceofeclectic has never canned anything - so I doubt that a deep discussion of food chemistry will mean as much in answering a question as a simple less technical answer.
__________________
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
Michael in FtW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 09:27 PM   #10
Senior Cook
 
mozart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW View Post
Which is exactly why I said: "... the primary preservative in this recipe (assuming it is the standard 2 cups vinegar and 6 cups sugar) is the sugar."



Which is exactly why I said: "The reason acid is added to a jelly recipe is to get it to gel ... Reducing the acid generally results in a too soft gel, or it may not gel at all and you just wind up with a jar of syrup."

essenceofeclectic has never canned anything - so I doubt that a deep discussion of food chemistry will mean as much in answering a question as a simple less technical answer.
Not questioning you, Michael. The OP seemed to be specifically asking about if the food would be safe if the amount of vinegar was altered and that is what I was addressing.
__________________

__________________
mozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Discuss Cooking on Facebook

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.