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Old 01-10-2008, 05:56 PM   #11
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When I was a kid my parents never refrigerated ketchup. After we got married we moved to Miami and always refrigerated all sorts of things (including flour, cookies, you name it)trying to keep the resident insect population down to a few kazillion and away from the food.

Just got used to storing the stuff mentioned in the fridge (not the flour or cookies) and still do it, although we are far away from FL.

Read our ketchup bottle and it did not say refrigerate. A mustard jar did, although it was the only one polled - the others being in the basement and I felt lazy.

And GB brought up a good point about the old pickle barrel. Haven't thought about those in years. But those pickles were always very vinegary - others are not.

Lawyers being who they are, the food company may often be warned to include the refrigerator warning rather than not, even if the risk of keeping the food at room temp may seem minimal. (As itzalgud noted his ketchup says refrigerate and mine does not. Cannot say that is the result of the legal consultants, but it sure could be.) But I am not smart enough to know when the advice is there to satisfy some legal beagle or if it is really important. So when it says refrigerate, I do so.

If I need the ketchup or mustard warm just tickle the stuff with the nuker.

Never radiated a pickle, but I suppose it would work - just be careful. Don't think hot pickle would taste all that good.

Salsa always chill. And mayo, well, you might as well just put a sign on the jar that says free grub for bacteria if left out.

Just my take on things.
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:28 PM   #12
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Never radiated a pickle, but I suppose it would work - just be careful. Don't think hot pickle would taste all that good.

Oh My Aunt Dot then you must have never had a deep fried pickle! I fancy myself a pickle conoseur(sp?) and I couldn't live without a deep fried pickle every now and then. Please, please try I promise you if you like pickles you will quickly fall in love!
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:11 PM   #13
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LOL - yeah, I kind of figured you were talking about cucumber pickles.

By "type" I was talking about this:

Regular dill pickles are fermented and cured for about 3 weeks. Refrigerator dills are fermented for about 1 week. During curing, colors and flavors change and acidity increases. Fresh-pack or quick-process pickles are not fermented; some are brined several hours or overnight, then drained and covered with vinegar and seasonings.

Obviously, "back in the day" they were not making "refrigerator" pickles. They were like the pickle barrel in the deli GB was talking about - fermented and kept in their brine.

If you want to make your own - you might want to visit the National Center for Home Food Preservation and read the sections on fermenting and pickling.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post
... If you go into a deli in NY you may see a barrel of pickles sitting out. Those are fine the way they are. ...
Even that barrel stays in the cold storage overnight. They may not spoil, but for sure becoe extra sour, the fermentation process kiks in in the worm place.

Just take them out of he fridge ahead of time, let them worm up to the room temps.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #15
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Charlie, there are pickle stores that have 50 gallon (maybe larger) barrels and many of them that sit out all the time. It is due to the type of pickling method used. they can remain in room temps for a very very very long time.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #16
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GB I pickle them my self. Back in Ukraine we used to make like 5-6 barrels evry year for the family. Believe me I know what I'm talking about. The moment you open that barrel in the worm invironment(sp?) the fermentation process kiks in really hard and those pickles start going sour really fast. I have couple of galons seating in my (worm) basement right now. But the moment I'll open them they will go into the fridge.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:39 PM   #17
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Well Charlie it is possible that you were not using the same technique I am talking about. I can promise you that these places have many large barrels sitting out at room temp for a long long time with no problem.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:45 PM   #18
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GB they don't. First of all barrels are closed, and that is not problem, but the ones that they opened they go thru them like crazy, that is why it is NY and deli.

Those pickles are dill pickled, very simple process.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:00 PM   #19
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The barrels are not closed Charlie. They are open. and in those cases I am not talking about the NY delis. I am talking about pickle shops that deal in massive quantities.

As for you statement about the warm environment kicking in the fermentation, Alton Brown says the opposite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alton Brown
Temperature is a big factor in fermentation. We don't want to let this get higher than, say, 75 degrees. The fermentation would still take place, but it would be really, really slow
He also says in relation to storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alton Brown
On the other hand, you could just leave these down here another three to four weeks with regular scumming, of course.
referring to them being in your cellar. Now in all fairness he does go on to suggest that he can't recommend that technique as if can promote spoilage, but he says it in the same way that he says he can't recommend eating carpaccio (sp?) and real egg nog and a number of other things that could be potentially dangerous.

The whole page that I took those quotes from in case anyone is interested is here.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:18 PM   #20
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Of course they have to seat for couple 3-4 weeks to get to the point when they become sour. And then some. And did he say that they should seat open. I bet not. They need to be refrigerator after opening. Large quantity stores probably sell them after opening in a day or less, like Guesess pickles for example.
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