Attempting a good chili

[Nicholas Mosher]

Ok, so I just spent two hours reading every single post in the Chili section here. Lots of great experimentation and tips!

I've made plenty of chili in the past, but nothing has really stood out as amazing. I really want to attack the subject and come up with something great. I grew up with the ground beef, tomatoes, chili powder, cumin, and beans in a pot. Sure it fed everyone and was good, but not anything amazing.

Looking at all the regional claims to fame. Texas red, mexican mole based sauces, game chili's from the mid-west & mountains, health-nut turkey, etc. The purity of texas-red appeals to me, as well as the flavor depth and complexity of the Oaxacan sauces like the various mole's (Like Mole Poblano). I want a bean-less chili, and am leaning towards 3/4" cubes of beef chuck for the meat. I want plenty of sauce, more than a braise, but less than a soup/stew. I'd like the sauce to be fairly smooth, and very deep in flavor with plenty of viscosity to nape. So my immediate thoughts are a large reduction of beer, beef stock, and crushed tomatoes as a cooking liquid. Thickening with torn pieces of corn tortilla/crushed tortilla chips also catches my interest, but I'm worried it might make the sauce gritty (Does it fully dissolve?). How about using Masa Harina, that inferior masa product - or wold I be better sticking to torn corn tortillas/chips?

As mentioned above, I'm interested in the flavor associated with mexican mole's. Unsweetened Oaxacan chocolate, toasted nuts, coffee, cinnamon, cloves, coriander, anise etc. I've read the old tales about the Mexican nun preparing the first mole with spices from the orient, powdered chocolate blowing in through the window, etc. Would pepitas (punkin' seeds) be traditional? What other nuts are native to Mexico and the Southwest? I see a lot of recipes with ground peanuts, almonds, and sesame seeds. The chocolate and toasted nut butters interest me most.

Then of course the "Chili Powder" (with an i) and dried chile's (with an e). I have Alton Brown's DVD on chili, and definetly like the looks of his method/chili powder recipe. I definetly love the smokiness of dried Jalapenos (chipotles) and the flavor of them (as well as the heat). To be honest, I haven't experimented much with other dried chile's (with an e). I have some stale-tasting powdered ancho, but thats about it. I don't want this to be the worlds hottest chili, but I also don't mind a good hit of heat either. I'm not a raw Habanero kind of guy, but I love fiery Thai dishes made with bird chile's and Hot Tamales are my favorite candy (cinnamon fire haha). I was thinking of starting with anchos, cascabels, arbols, and chipotles.

I'll be making a run to the store later today for dried chiles, mexican bittersweet chocolate, nuts, chuck, and some beer.

Speaking of beer, some people swear by dark beer, while others say it overpowers everything and to use an amber ale (or even a lager in some recipes).

I realize there are a zillion recipes for chili, but I'm just looking for some help, answers to questions above, and opinions/recipes that might work with my goals.

I was thinking rice n' beans would be a great pairing with the stew, or maybe just some tortillas.

 

[Alix]

Nick, first of all go to Penzeys and get their CHILI powder. It is lovely and smoky and has exactly the flavour you need. My family (who are heat wimps) LOVED that chili powder and raved it was my best chili ever.

My only other advice is, if you are going to make this an experiment, I'd do a taste off with fresh vs dried ingredients. Good luck to you.

 

[Andy M.]

Nick:

Check out this site: International Chili Society. This is a list of past chamions. If you click on the winner's name, you will, in most cases, get the winning recipe. That should give you some ideas to enhance your efforts.

I have found the Cascabel skins to be the toughest of all. You may want to rehydrate them and scrape the meat off the skin to keep it out of the chili.

 

[Yakuta]

Hi, I don't claim to be a chili expert but I love to experiment and here are some things that work well in my chili:

All freshly roasted and ground spices (nothing less gives it the zing that I like). I normally dry roast a good amount of cumin seeds, corrainder seeds, dried ancho and dried arabol chili's in a fry pan. Once the oils are released. I powder them in a coffee grinder. This forms the aromatic spice mix that adds depth to the chili. I also like to add a pinch of freshly ground cinnamon and black pepper to add a subtle yet delectable flavor to the chili

I also like to use fresh garlic and jalapenos (both finely chopped) in my chili for added depth

Finally diced tomatoes a hint of brown sugar and unsweetened cocoa powder gives the chili a rich decadent taste

I like to use mostly beef (ground) in my chili and also some black beans (I make mine from scratch because I don't like canned beans).

To serve I like to add some chopped cilantro, diced red onions, good quality cheddar, chopped green onions, sour cream and some tortilla chips.

This along with some corn bread and everyone in my house is happy.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Alix - I'm hoping to make my own chili powder with dried chiles that have been toasted to wake 'em up.
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Andy - Awesome link! Just spent the past hour reading every recipe listed back to the late 1960's. Definetly gave me a few ideas. A few from the 70's mention the use of kidney fat as a cooking medium. I've read a lot about kidney fat being the ultimate fat, but have never tried it. Anthony Bourdain always boasts about it too.
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Yakuta - Sounds great! What do you use for liquids, and how much per pound of meat?
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Hit the Whole Foods store and a Mexican market/restaurant today. Picked up 6lbs of whole beef chuck, 6-pk of Dos Equis Amber Ale, pack of Colombian Luker chocolate (couldn't find any oaxacan chocolate), masa harina, corn tortillas, tortilla chips, almonds, peanuts, pepitas, sesame seeds, arbols, anchos, pasillas, chipotles, chipotles en adobo, and one bottle of Mexican Pepsi which is made with sugar instead of corn syrup and bottled in glass (and definetly tastes different). For the life of me, I could not locally source any cascabels.

Also ate lunch at the Mexican market. Had mole poblano, chicken, and rice & beans.

Going to do a whole bunch of experimentation tomorrow with 1.5lb batches of chili. I have a few mole recipes in my cookbooks, but need to do a bunch of research still. I don't want a chili that tastes like mole, but a classic bowl of red that has a few of the complexities of mexican moles (including that flavor depth). Being someone that loves French dishes/techniques, I can't help but desire a sauce with smoothness. I definetly don't want any grittiness. In fact, from my reading I discovered that smoothness is also a factor that traditional mole's are judged by, and that in many communities there is a common mill/grinder that everyone uses to get a smooth mole. I suppose minced items wouldn't bother me much, but I don't want chunks of onion or chiles in mine, thats for sure. I'm thinking a deeply flavored velvet-textured sauce (with a good bite) coating tender bite-sized pieces of braised chuck. Then something to soak/grab that sauce up like rice & beans or tortillas.

Do any of you guys use nuts (in the form of pastes/butters) in your chili recipes? If so, which do you use, and how much?

Edit: By the way, the Pepsi was for drinking, not for making chili...

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Doing a little more research this morning. Looking at the common factors and differences between Texas Red and Mole Poblano. I plan to keep the common factors in my chili, but have to look closely at the differences...

Both use tomatoes and stock/water, but chili also uses beer quite often. anchos & pasillas seem to be common chile's used in both, with some mole's using chipotles and many chili's using them. Pecans, peanuts, and pumpkin seeds (classic in moles) are all native to Mexico/SA, but almonds and sesame seeds were imported, along with cinnamon, coriander, anise, cloves, and oregano. Chocolate is obviously native. Oddly enough, very few mole sauces include cumin, whereas almost every chili recipe on earth is loaded with it!

I get a kick out of the addition of bread to mole's along with tortillas. Seems like someone just threw everything they had into the sauce. I'm wiling to bet that the flour thickens things better than the cornmeal, but something just seems off adding hunks of french bread to a southwestern/mexican dish.

Suagrs come from the tomatoes, onions, chiles, and raisins (in moles). Some balance the flavor with sugar or a bit of honey.

Chili's are often made by adding blends of dried chile's that were toasted and powdered, whereas traditional moles fry the chile's in lard before processing them. Fat is an excellent transmitter of flavor, so I can see how this would be a great technique with chili. Some old chili recipes in fact do this as the first step. The mole making process is certainly much more refined than the cowboy "everything in a pot" method of chili making. That said, I'm looking at the following common ingredients...

Ancho Chiles
Pasilla Chiles
Chipotle Chiles in Adobo Sauce
Tomatoes
Onions
Garlic
Oregano
Black Pepper
Stock/Water
Masa/Masa-Harina Based Thickening Agents

And for the rogue ingredients...

Beer
Nuts (Almonds, Peanuts, Pumpkin Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Pecans)
Chocolate
Spices (Cumin, Cloves, Cinnamon, Coriander, Anise)
Wheat Flour Based Products (Flour or Bread)

Of course there are countless others, but these are some of the common ones I came up with. The spices will be easy to test out, as I can make a common batch, separate the batch into small portions and simmer with different spices to taste their effect. In most recipes, the chocolate is added late in the show as well, which makes that an easy taste test. Beer is something I've tried before with a lager, so I'm going to test the difference between a lager based chili and amber-ale based chili too. I'm also going to try various roasted nut pastes/butters.

Another item on my list to try will be toasted/powdered chile's vs fried/processed.

Have to pick up a couple items at the store before I start.

Still looking for opinions/recipes too, so chime in!

EDIT: I love how the mole recipes make the sauce first. This allows it to be finely processed and strained. I definetly plan to use this technique in my chili making.

 

[Andy M.]

Nick, I think you're putting too fine an edge on this. Chili is an "everything in the pot" dish. It's not meant to be like a mole, although they have some common ingredients.

Chili is a stew with meat, chiles and spices. I would consider the following seasonings as usual: Mexican oregano, garlic, onion, cumin, salt. Select a mix of dried and fresh chiles to provide the pepper flavor you like. I like a little tomato but not too much. You can use beer, water or broth for a liquid.

Masa harina appears to be a standard for thickening. It does not have a strong flavor of it's own.

I'd suggest starting off with a basic recipe that has the beef and pepper taste you like then test it with beer or broth in place of water...

Keep us posted.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Yeah, I'm definetly not trying to make a traditional mole, but I love some of the flavors in mole poblano. After reading a few hundred recipes, I'm going to try the following...

Lard As Needed
1.5lbs Beef Chuck - Diced into 1/2" Cubes
2oz Finely Minced/Grated Onion
2 Large Cloves Garlic - Smashed into Paste
3-T Toasted/Ground Ancho Chiles
1-T Toasted/Ground Pasilla Chiles
1-t Toasted/Ground Cumin
1-T Mexican Oregano
2 Chipotle Chile's with Adobo Sauce
1-C Medium Bodied Beer (I'm Using Dos Equis Amber)
1-C Beef/Veal Stock (I'll be using Veal)
1-C Crushed Tomatoes - Run through a food mill
Black Pepper & Kosher Salt

I'm going to use the braising technique. Brown the beef in lard and remove it to a separate bowl. Then I'll caramelize the onions/garlic, followed by the spices/chiles in the hot lard. Then I'll deglaze with the liquids, add the oregano, and put the beef back in. Next I'll simmer for a couple minutes, then cover it and throw it in a 325ºF oven until it's finsihed (an hour or two).

From there I'll be able to start my experiments by dividing the chili into a few small 1qt sauciers. I'm going to play with chocolate, roasted nut/raisin pastes, spices (cinnamon, cloves, coriander), and thickening with masa/masa harina products (if needed). My recipe ratio is 2-Cups of liquid per pound of beef, so with the addition of the spices/chiles I may not have to thicken it much.

I bought enough chuck and staples to make four 1.5lb batches, so I can make it an evolutionary process as I refine each pot.

 

[RosCoe]

Hi Nick. I live in Texas and make chili several time a year when it's cool outside. A couple of things I've learned by trial and error and watching how others do it. One is to brown the onions and meat together and then add about half the spices I think I need (and the garlic) and cook them for a minute or so with the meat before I add any liquid. Once the chili gets to the tasting stage I add the rest of the spices a little at a time until it tastes right, it probably is never the same amount of any one thing. I also add a can of beef broth or a beef bullion cube or two. I really gives the flavor a boost but you can't add the salt at the beginning if you do this, add it a little at a time until its right. As for dried chilis I like them, the anchos and chipotles but I remove the stems and seeds and throw them in the pot in big chunks and fish them out before we eat. They can really change the flavor which I like once in a while.One more thing, I know it varies with each individual but I think the grind of the meat is very important and for me it has to be very corse and takes at least two hrs to get tender. Sorry to be so long winded, I love chili and like to talk about it.
Ross

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

RosCoe - I've read a lot about reserving 1/4-1/2 of the chiles/spices/herbs until the dish is almost finished. From my reading it's similar to holding back herb and aromatic additions from stock until the last hour which preserves the essential oils and flavors. I may try this with my initial recipe as well. I'm also figuring 1.5-2hrs as the cooking time. Perhaps I will add half the chiles at the start (cooking them in the lard as one would do with mole), and then the other half after 1hr or 1.5hrs of braising, giving them 30min or so to develop in the sauce, but not so long as to break down all those essential oils. In fact, I think I'll do that - Thanks!
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I got busy tonight so i didn't get a chance to run a batch, but I did trim and break down about 6lbs of chuck into 1/3-1/2" cubes. Spent the morning/afternoon reading and coming up with an initial recipe to try so I had to run around tonight getting other stuff done. Oh well. It will be chili for lunch/dinner tomorrow!

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

The first batch is in the oven using the above recipe. Only things I changed were the quantity of garlic (up to three cloves), and holding back half the chile's/herbs. I also cut the amount of ancho to 2-T from 3-T.

Definetly took me a little while to de-seed/toast/process all those chiles! I found that 15 Anchos yield about 2/3-C, and 10 Pasillas yield about 1/3-C using average sized pieces. Have them in separate sealed containers now.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Did some experimenting.

The ground coriander seed is a great addition, but personally I think the chocolate and cinnamon clash a bit with the cumin. Adding a little bit of sweetness via raisin paste or honey goes a great way to balancing the flavors. I didn't make the chili "sweet", but compensated for the other spicy/hot/savory components that are there in spades. Honey is easier and smoother, so I prefer it (the flavors are almost equal).

I need to experiment more with the nut pastes/butters. It's really easy to go overboard with them, but just a bit adds a great flavor component. Pecans produced a walnutty dryness factor on the palate, which I didn't go for. Almonds I'm not sure about. Just a bit of roasted/ground peanuts was good, but I need to try it again.

I may cut back on the amount of ancho to equal the pasilla at 1-T each, and increase the amount of chipotles.

I'm also going to try cubed chuck vs coarsely ground chick side by side, and change the meat/liquid ratio to 1lb/1.5-C.

Amber ale is definetly the way to go too!

Didn't really need to thicken the sauce much, but I did enjoy the subtle corn flavor the masa products added. Unfortunately, I did notice a difference in texture with the sauce. A little bit of graininess that I disliked.

So, off to do some clean-up. I may wait until tomorrow for the next batch.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Ok, going to give the following a try today...

Lard As Needed
2-lbs Ground Beef
3-oz Finely Minced Onion
4 Large Cloves Garlic - Minced
1-T Toasted/Ground Ancho Chiles
1-T Toasted/Ground Pasilla Chiles
1-T Mexican Oregano
2-t Toasted/Ground Cumin
1/2-t Ground Coriander Seed
4 Chipotle Chiles w/Adobo Sauce
1-C Crushed Tomatoes (Processed through food mill)
3/4-C Beef/Veal Stock
3/4-C Medium Bodied Beer
1/2-t Honey
Black Pepper & Kosher Salt

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

DON'T try that recipe...

The irregular shaped ground beef holds on to way more sauce than cubes of chuck, and I didn't account for it.

Back to the drawing board. I'm going to start with the CIA's recipe and work from there the next batch. Busy the next two days, so maybe Thursday.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Ok, I tried three more recipes and came up with the following. It's good (better than my old childhood standby), but I still haven't come up with an absolutely amazing recipe yet. I'm all chilied out though, so I'm moving on to something else. Maybe I'll get a couple books just on the subject of red. Any good recommendations?

Lard As Needed
2lbs Coarsely Ground Beef or Diced Round
4oz Minced Yellow Onion
2oz Minced Anaheim Chiles
4 Large Cloves Garlic - Minced
2-T All Purpose Flour
4 Chipotle Chile's + 1-T Adobo Sauce
1-T Toasted/Ground Ancho Chiles
1-T Toasted/Ground Pasilla Chiles
1-T Mexican Oregano
1-t Toasted/Ground Cumin Seed
1/2-t Ground Coriander Seed
12fl.oz. Beer (A Medium Ale)
12fl.oz. Tomato Puree
12fl.oz. Beef/Veal Stock
2-T White Vinegar
1-t Honey
Kosher Salt & Black Pepper

Running short on time here, but brown the beef on high heat and set it aside. Brown the onions, add the anaheims/garlic and cook briefly, add the flour and cook out the rawness, add the chipotles and 3/4 of the dried herbs, add the beer and bring to a simmer for 2-3min, add the tomatoes/stock/reserved beef and return to a simmer, pop in a 300ºF oven for 1hr, pull it out and degrease, add the remaining chili powder mixture, season with black pepper, and balance the flavors with honey/vinegar/kosher salt. I wanted to add a corn product to thicken, but all the products I used gave the sauce a gritty texture. I felt I had better flavor penetration into the meat with smaller pieces (either burger or small-dice round/chuck). I decided on not including any nut butters, as they added an extra facet, but didn't develop any further depth in flavor (which is what I was looking for). I think the next thing I would try would be to roast the tomatoes/anaheims/onions/garlic first - a few recipes I found claim this to be the secret technique. After 10 pots of chili I'm tuckered out though...

Any further suggestions or book recommendations?

I tried adding various amounts of ancho/pasilla, but found 2-3 tablespooons to be enough along with four chipotles and the anaheims. More than that seemed to give it even more "Chili" flavor (kinda masking the other flavors), but didn't increase the depth any. The smokiness of the chipotles is a key factor for sure in what I like. The vinegar/acid definetly wakes it up as well. Not like ketchup, but a similar effect in bringing out the flavors of the chiles, garlic, and tomatoes.

EDIT: The chipotle's were roughly seeded and minced to a paste.

 

[AllenOK]

Nick, I ALWAYS caramelize my tomatoes, onions, and garlic. I usually add the onions and garlic, along with the seasonings, when the meat is 3/4 done browning. The tomatoes get added shortly thereafter. Once the mixture starts to stick to the pan and caramelize, I'll add my liquid ingredients, usually stock. Stir and scrape to get all that goodness into the mix.

I've used beer a few times, but honestly, I'm not really all that fond of the taste.

I will put a little cocoa powder and cinnamon into my seasonings, but only 1/4 t of each per 2# of meat. I find that any more, and they start to overpower/compete with the remaining seasonings. The amounts I use are not totally detectable, but definitely add to the taste.

I wouldn't go with veal stock, but a good strong beef stock.

I like to use stale corn tortilla chips. I find that they dissolve completely into the broth as it cooks.

You also might want to try some slightly different meats. Skirt steak is cheap, and very flavorful. The long cooking time will also break it down to make it tender. I've been wanting to use some smoked brisket, to add a very strong smokey punch, and it's already very tender.

Editted to add:

You might want to try brown sugar instead of honey for a sweetener. If you want to go authentic, look for a cone of "Piloncilo", a solid cone of brown sugar, usually displayed where the dried chiles are in the produce department.

 

[Harborwitch]

Nick, a few ideas: BBQ some pork butt chunks, cube them up and toss them in the chili. Home smoked pork also is really really good. We really like grilling our meat so that it chars on the outside and gives that smokey flavor to the chili. Smoked lamb makes incredible chili (especially with black beans)!

I have always used lots of onions and peppers - but I hold back half and add them toward the end so there are crispy veggies. Red and green bell peppers, roasted poblanos, jalapenos - and red and white onions. As has been noted, chili is a "casual" meal. Great condiments include lime wedges, crema (or sour cream), chopped cilantro, grated cheese, sliced scallions, and diced tomatoes.

Please consider getting your spices etc. from Penzey's. Their cumin is amazing. They have really great stuff.

I have been known to combine meats - smoked turkey and the BBQ'd pork, chorizo and beef, etc. Hominy is great in chili - but then it's not classic. Chili is such a FUN food. Relax and have great fun with it .

 

[kitchenelf]

Harborwitch - funny you brought up smoking - as I was reading his recipe I thought about smoking the tomatoes in a stovetop smoker - that might be a nice flavor. OH MY - smoked pork butt in chili - yahoo!! What a great idea.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Allen - Brown sugar instead of honey sounds great! I'll have to give that a try. I also caramelized the onions and garlic. I don't normally keep beef stock in my freezer, so I used some of my brown veal stock. Doesn't have as much "Beefy" flavor, but has a lot more body from the greater amount of gelatin. I'd probably use beef stock if I had it though. I'm definetly going to try brown sugar next time around, Thanks!
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Harborwitch - Awesome idea on the BBQ! Next time around I'm going to brown strips of chuck/round over my charcoal weber before dicing it up into the pot! Thats sounds excellent! I thought about adding some diced bell pepper too - that's definetly on the list next time around as well. I like my chili with some raw minced red onion on top, so I bet reserving some of the onions for addition later on lends a similar sharpness. I'll check out Penzey's too. Right now I get most of my spices from Whole Foods and a couple mail order catalogs. Whole Foods has pretty good spices. I buy whole cumin seed, toast it in the oven, and grind it in one of my mills. Thats why I only have 1-tsp in the above recipe, as it is very potent!
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Kitchenelf - I've never actually used an indoor smoker before. Any good sources of info? I've seen people use the stainless ones with the top that slides on, and I've seen 'em on TV, but never tried it before. I usually use my weber with coals pushed to one side and wet chips thrown on top. I was thinking of broiling the vegetables in the oven first. For the tomatoes, I wanted liquid though, so I ran a can of crushed tomatoes through my hand-crank food-mill and made a puree to use with the beer and stock.
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Stews/Braises/Sauces are my favorite things to cook, and amazing chili is on my list of "things to achieve" right up there with a perfect Roast Chicken... I can make a good pot of chili, but it's only good. I want something amazing...

Thanks for the help guys! Always looking for more tips/info too.

EDIT: Oh, I tried using Masa Harina, Masarepa, Corn Tortillas pulsed in a chopper, Tortilla Chips pulsed in a chopper, and all of them gave the sauce a slightly gritty/particulate mouthfeel even after a full hour of simmering. The toasted flavor of the chips definetly had the best flavor, but even those failed to fully break down in my pot. So I settled for a couple tablespoons of flour (via Roux) to thicken the sauce along with a bit of reduction. I'm still hung on whats better too, ground or diced beef. I do know that I prefer small dice, as I achieved greater flavor penetration into the meat with more surface area and less thickness. I'm also looking at the list of ingredients and thinking I might have gotten carried away with the number of ingredients. Usually the best things are fairly simple. I'd question the addition of some items, such as both Ancho & Pasilla chiles. Personally I found them to be very similar in taste when you added in the complexity of all the other flavors and aromas. Next time around I'd probably just use one or the other and just double the amount.

I also want to try developing a cooking medium and reducing it by 1/3-1/2 to thicken/concentrate flavors (with a bit of roux), and then straining it into a pot over the diced BBQ'd beef to begin the stew/braise.

Proper balancing at the end with honey (B.Sugar next time), Vinegar, and Salt is key from my experimenting. Lots of earthy flavors that need to be brought forward are lifted up.

Have to go, Have fun!

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Haha, I can't let it go...

Going to try one more 2lb batch tonight. I picked up some coarsely ground beef this morning along with some bell peppers. Going to sub bell peppers for the anaheim chile (and increase the amount to 4oz to match the onions), use brown sugar instead of honey, and reduce the sauce more to concentrate the flavors before returning the beef and simmering. Then when it's done I'm going to split it up into four portions and do some experimentation with a few vinegars. I may increase the garlic as well.

Going to look at some more recipes before I go at it again.

Have to go Christmas Shopping first...