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Constance 02-19-2007 08:12 PM

Poverty living...
 
Thankfully, I don't think any of us need these tips, but having been hungry at one time in my life, I found them interesting.

The Simple Dollar » Nourishment on a Desperate Income

TATTRAT 02-19-2007 08:28 PM

1. Cook at home. Never eat out. Dining out is so much more expensive than eating at home that the two are incomparable. Stay at home and make your own food rather than eating at a restaurant. It’s often more work, but it’s also money in your pocket.


darn it! It seems impracticle to cook for one, and after working a 16 hour day, the last thing I wanna do is come home and cook, but I agree. It does hit the wallet.

amber 02-19-2007 09:17 PM

Number 3 sounded a bit extreme to me :lol:


3. Keep a hen or two. This seems somewhat silly, but female chickens are very good at producing food. You can unabashedly feed them whatever scraps you have and they produce eggs very regularly. If you’re careful, you can keep them in a small cage in your own apartment; a friend of mine kept one in a pet porter for several months. Just be aware of the smell; you should line their living area with paper and expect to clean it a lot. You can do this by using scavenged newspapers and rotating them daily, but leave the papers that the chicken scratches together for a nest alone.

Quadlex 02-19-2007 09:27 PM

Hrm, that's an interesting site.

I find one of the greatest resources for periods when uni takes over from everything else and thus I don't have the time to work enough to live, is myself now (When I do have the time) and a local wholesale store.

Cans of tinned crushed Roma tomatoes are the one thing that my kitchen would miss most, if I didn't have any. I *adore* them. They thicken, they flavour, they turn into sauces and soups and gravy bases and casseroles and juice, if you want.

So, when I go to the wholesale store in a few weeks, I'm going to pick up a box, and put it under my house. Along with a sack of rice (That'll go in a cheap plastic garbage bin, to keep wildlife out) and my freezer'o'meat, it should provide me with a month of boring, tiresome, nutritious food when I'm too poor for anything else.

Katie H 02-19-2007 09:30 PM

Cook at home. Never eat out. This is true if you are really in a dire situation financially. If not, you can create a restaurant-quality meal for far less than eating out if you have the skills and desire. You can "dine" at home with attention paid to how the table looks, decorations, ambience, etc. I've done it many times. That's how I came to be married to Buck.

Stews and soups are miraculous. Even meatless ones that contain peas, lentils and legumes can satisfy for a long while. A hearty pot of soup can be had with a dollars' worth of dried beans, some canned broth or bouillon cubes and water.

Grow some of our own vegetables. Amen to this. When I didn't have the space, I used containers. Even large kitty litter buckets with drainage holds drilled in the bottom work well for tomatoes. Now I grow vegetables using hay bale gardening. Growing your own veggies is convenient and the flavor is far better than what can be had at the usual produce section of many stores. Plus, you KNOW what kind of pesticides (or not) have been on them.

Don't fear the leftovers. I regularly save small amounts of frozen veggies from larger bags to add to soups and stews. Ditto for dibs and dabs of cooked leftovers. I also save the broken lasagna, manicotti, large shell pasta to use in soups.

Look in discarded newspapers and circulars for coupons. Use coupons anyway! Except, only use coupons for foods/things you actually like/use. Many times the house brand of an item is less expensive than the name brand with a coupon. Also look for "double" or "triple" coupon offers in your markets.

When you go to the grocery store, use a shopping list and stick to it. I'll also add that you should stay to the outside perimeter of the store and avoid the endcaps, which are usually filled with items to entice you. I have generated a computer shopping list for items I always need to purchase, along with spaces to add specific additional items. I rarely stray from my list. As a result, I spend a lot less each time I shop.

Just my take on this thread.

StirBlue 02-19-2007 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATTRAT
1. Cook at home. Never eat out. Dining out is so much more expensive than eating at home that the two are incomparable. Stay at home and make your own food rather than eating at a restaurant. It’s often more work, but it’s also money in your pocket.


darn it! It seems impracticle to cook for one, and after working a 16 hour day, the last thing I wanna do is come home and cook, but I agree. It does hit the wallet.

When you are working and have income, it is budget that is your concern.
You should never use your "eating out" money on groceries. In this day and age, cooking at home and dining out are very comparable especially for the single person.
One night I was at the grocery and decided to pick up groceries for hamburgers. (and hamburgers only). When I saw that I was accumulating about $20 for the hamburgers, I put everything back, dug up a coupon and headed for the drive-thru at the burger place, two value meals to include frys & drink (which I could not afford at the grocery) for about $12.
Sometimes you have leftovers when cooking at home; sometimes it is waste. If you don't have any plans for a head of lettuce except a few strands for a burger and you are not making plans for a salad, eventually you will throw the lettuce in the trash.
You should always have food at home called "staples" and beverages. But you should not go hungry at lunch because your lunch money is tied up at home in groceries and you did not have time to make lunch.

Quadlex 02-19-2007 09:44 PM

As for cooking for a single person, I know what you mean. Individual pieces of meat are more expensive (Or unavailable), vegetables, creams, and other fresh produce goes off before you can use it, you put alot of effort into cooking what only lasts for a few minutes in some cases...

So I gave up. I now cook for 2. Or 4. The leftovers go into the fridge for two days and into the freezer at 4. Sure, I'm out of space in the freezer, but eating one of leftovers for lunch the next day, I'm left with two ready made meals (Or sometimes, none at all), and so i'm all set.

As for food buying / saving, I freeze everything. If a pumpkin wasn't used and is about to go off, I chop it up and freeze it. Yes, it goes a funny colour. Yes, it goes squishy. Yes, it's just fine if you use it in a soup, or a puree, or risotto. Carrots can still be made into a Mire Poix, cabbage is a little limp but is OK if you're stuffing something with it (Or you like it soggy with butter like my mother).

I buy BBQ chickens when they're discounted, chill them, separate into quarters and freeze. Once I've used the flesh from one I pop the bones into a ziplock bag and freeze again, ready to make (Not as good, but still acceptable) stock.

Katie H 02-19-2007 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadlex

I buy BBQ chickens when they're discounted, chill them, separate into quarters and freeze. Once I've used the flesh from one I pop the bones into a ziplock bag and freeze again, ready to make (Not as good, but still acceptable) stock.

Quadlex, another thing you can do with those discounted chickens is to remove the meat from the bones, chop it up and use it in recipes that call for chopped cooked chicken. Casseroles, enchiladas, quesadillas, chicken salad, etc.

Quadlex 02-19-2007 09:59 PM

Hence the "Once I've used the flesh" :P

Actually, I think I'll post the recipe I make most often from them, as a greeting recipe. It's not fancy, or expensive, but I like it. As does my partner. And his mother. And their friends. Don't you love it when a recipe goes viral?

TATTRAT 02-19-2007 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StirBlue
When you are working and have income, it is budget that is your concern.
You should never use your "eating out" money on groceries. In this day and age, cooking at home and dining out are very comparable especially for the single person.
One night I was at the grocery and decided to pick up groceries for hamburgers. (and hamburgers only). When I saw that I was accumulating about $20 for the hamburgers, I put everything back, dug up a coupon and headed for the drive-thru at the burger place, two value meals to include frys & drink (which I could not afford at the grocery) for about $12.
Sometimes you have leftovers when cooking at home; sometimes it is waste. If you don't have any plans for a head of lettuce except a few strands for a burger and you are not making plans for a salad, eventually you will throw the lettuce in the trash.
You should always have food at home called "staples" and beverages. But you should not go hungry at lunch because your lunch money is tied up at home in groceries and you did not have time to make lunch.


That is my point exactly. If I were to go out and "shop", budget is NOT the issue, it is what am I buying that is going to sit in the fridge till it goes bad. I do have staples, and will never NOT have a midnight snack, or even something that if company comes over, I can't thaw/throw on the grill/entertain with.

As for lunch breaks, I work in a kitchen, I run a kitchen, if I get hungry, I eat. But either way, after looking at food for 12-16+hours a day, no matter what it is, I get tired of looking at food, and do not want to take a to go box, or cook when I get home...That is another reason it is hard to cook at home, I eat my "squares" at work, I am only home long enough to enjoy a beverage or three, have a quick bite and call it a night.

amber 02-19-2007 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StirBlue
When you are working and have income, it is budget that is your concern.
You should never use your "eating out" money on groceries. In this day and age, cooking at home and dining out are very comparable especially for the single person.
One night I was at the grocery and decided to pick up groceries for hamburgers. (and hamburgers only). When I saw that I was accumulating about $20 for the hamburgers, I put everything back, dug up a coupon and headed for the drive-thru at the burger place, two value meals to include frys & drink (which I could not afford at the grocery) for about $12.
Sometimes you have leftovers when cooking at home; sometimes it is waste. If you don't have any plans for a head of lettuce except a few strands for a burger and you are not making plans for a salad, eventually you will throw the lettuce in the trash.
You should always have food at home called "staples" and beverages. But you should not go hungry at lunch because your lunch money is tied up at home in groceries and you did not have time to make lunch.

The difference is that your choosing fast food (which is fatty), where you could be buying a package of hamburger 90-95% lean and freezing whatever you dont use, and buy a package of buns. Fries, well just buy a bag of potatoes and that will last you forever if you store them properly. As for topping for your burger, hit the salad bar at your grocery store and only buy what you need. I do this whenever I want a fresh fruit salad. For example I will buy one orange, and bit of grapes by the pound, and then hit the salad bar for pineapple because I cannot afford nor will I pay $4 for a pineapple.

Anyway, good thread Constance:smile:

Claire 02-27-2007 09:11 AM

Beans, beans the musical fruit! The more you eat, the more you toot! You simply cannot go wrong with beans, lentils, split peas, etc. As others have said, I keep a bag in the freezer, and bones, odds & ends of veggies, etc, go into the bag and become soup or stew.

Even when I was as poor as a church mouse, I did save up and eat out a couple of times a year. Not daily as some people who claim to be "poor" do. But when I eat out I want it to be on glass and have someone else do the cleaning up. In other words, I'd rather splurge on one good dinner a year rather than eat at chains every day. One thing that was nice, though, was that I lived in Hawaii for awhile, and Mom & Pop Asian places were extremely inexpensive, delicious. I swear you couldn't make the food yourself for the price you paid for a "plate lunch".

Luckily, I've gotten past the years when cheap food was an issue. But I can remember when I used to buy a pound of chicken livers (if I remember correctly, 99 cents) and big head of cabbage (I think 29 cents) and my cat and I would live on that for a week! Now my husband gets mad at me when I cut too many corners in the food department! Force of habit!

TexanFrench 02-27-2007 10:17 AM

Ah, the memories... In the early days of our marriage, DH was attending college part-time to finish his degree, and working the night shift, and we had a pre-schooler. I did tutoring (bringing the small one along with me) just so that we could have grocery money, since our budget covered everything but that.

I think we did everything on this list, except keeping live chickens and picking up seasoning packets at fast-food places. And I also tried to always keep a package of powdered milk on hand, in case we ran out of milk and there was no food money. I even remember arguing with a clerk who shorted me 2 cents on change!

Admittedly, this was "poverty by choice" and if I had wanted to leave my child at my mother-in-law's home 750 miles away (the offer was made), and find a "real" job, we would not have been scrounging. But raising my own child was important to me. And I did manage to keep everyone fed! (As a side note, my daughter still remembers Chee-tos as an extra special treat--a small bag was the cheapest snack in our grocery store, and sometimes we would all share that small bag on a picnic.)

Sometimes I think you eat better on a limited budget, because you consciously plan your meals, and you don't waste food.

Yakuta 02-27-2007 10:31 AM

Great thread Constance. Growing up in a lower middle class family in India I don't think I eat out until I was a teenager. That to once in a blue moon (like once in a year). We barely had money to make ends meet.

Came to the US as a student and struggled for several more years. Got married and struggled for another 4-5 years. So eating out was limited to maybe 3 - 5 times a year.

While growing up I missed the entire galmor on going out and enjoying a meal in a nice setting. As I got older I came to realize that I ate simple food yes but it was healthier than what you get when you eat out. My early foundation years has kept me healthy to date. So looking back drinking only water, milk and nothing else until my teenage years was not a big loss.

I echo what Claire mentioned. There are certain items like beans, rice, potatoes, milk, eggs, onions, pasta, canned tomatoes and chicken that go a long way. You can make so many different things with these relatively inexpensive ingredients that there is not much of a chance that you will get bored and tired of them.

BreezyCooking 02-27-2007 11:00 AM

As someone who kept chickens for many years, I found that business about keeping a couple of chickens in an apartment for egg production truly offensive & definitely inhumane. These are living beings - NOT machines. I don't care how "poor" you are. Don't inflict your financial problems on some helpless animal. And chickens need care & good food - not just kitchen scraps - to produce. Folks like me who raised them for eggs rarely even broke even costwise. We raised them for the fun of it & for the freshness of the end product - not to save food money.

Instead - grow up, read/learn something about nutrition & cooking, & couple that with some common sense budgeting. It's amazing how well you can eat these days, regardless of how much $$ you make. Supermarkets everywhere are carrying so many different inexpensive ethnic items that make cooking so much more fun than it used to be. That plus the internet with all it's gazillion recipes for every food item imaginable?

I really find it difficult that someone would actually need to consult that particular website on how to eat better on a budget. There are far far more sensible & reasonable websites on how to eat well on a budget than that one.

Constance 02-27-2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreezyCooking
As someone who kept chickens for many years, I found that business about keeping a couple of chickens in an apartment for egg production truly offensive & definitely inhumane...

...I really find it difficult that someone would actually need to consult a website on how to eat better on a budget.

I agree about the chickens, Breezy...that would have to be stinky and quite unsanitary.
In regard to your last comment, perhaps not everyone is as smart as you are.

jpmcgrew 02-27-2007 11:18 AM

:smile: Also beans and rice can go a long way.I had a girl friend with a baby and was on foodstamps etc.She could never get her money to stretch for food.I helped alot in this as she would go and buy avocados,strawberries,steak and so on {high dollars for little food.I taught her to buy the larger packages of cut chicken on sale of course and then split up the pieces and freeze she was so clueless.Showed her how to buy things on sale practical foods.I even had her go ahead and stock up on Mac&Cheese on sale.Canned soups on sale those were to be had at the end of the month if she did indeed run out of food.showed her alot as thats how I shopped I wasn't on welfare but my paycheck did not go too far after rent etc. That was in the in the mid 1980s.
My most brilliant idea at the time:lol: was to start a tiny garden in her yard including a big strawberry patch,plus some easy to grow stuff like zuchinni.I never really understood her obsession with avocados and strawberries.

BreezyCooking 02-27-2007 11:20 AM

Constance - I didn't mean to sound smarmy. I should have (& will) change that to "that" particular website. I don't think it's all that helpful.

And it has nothing to do with being "smart". It's just common sense.

I'd also like to add that hitting your local library for cookbooks is also a terrific idea.

ChefJune 02-27-2007 11:22 AM

Quote:

One night I was at the grocery and decided to pick up groceries for hamburgers. (and hamburgers only). When I saw that I was accumulating about $20 for the hamburgers, I put everything back, dug up a coupon and headed for the drive-thru at the burger place, two value meals to include frys & drink (which I could not afford at the grocery) for about $12.
Problem with this is that that meal from the drive through is laden with all kinds of additives and preservatives. How do you th ink they can afford to charge less than what you were accumulating in your cart? The quality is less.

I have yet to find the fast food burger joint that offered really "good" food. Tasty, maybe, quick, definitely, but little else.

I never go food shopping without a list. If I'm buying a high end item, I've planned it in advance.

Pasta and vegetable sauces are great budget stretchers, and can be delicious, as well. :wink:

BreezyCooking 02-27-2007 12:01 PM

Two things I do is to 1) always have a nice big bag of frozen boneless skinless chicken breast halves on hand.

You can thaw & saute them one or more at a time in all sorts of ways - plain with veggies; topped with sauce & mozzarella cheese & pasta; cut up & stirfried with veggies Asian style; stuffed in taco shells or tortillas & topped with salsa or enchilada sauce.

They really have to be the best buy for versatile & healthy inexpensive cooking.

And 2) although pricier, I also keep a bag of cooked, peeled, frozen shrimp in the freezer. One bag can last a LONG time. You can toss a handful into ramen soup, into a stirfry instead of chicken, into pasta with a little olive oil. Again - add a salad & you have inexpensive healthy eating.

Buying large amounts of certain items (so long as they're lastable items) can seem expensive at the time of purchase, but when you figure in how many meals you can get out of them, you'd be amazed at how inexpensive every one of those meals actually is.

Snoop Puss 02-27-2007 06:23 PM

I remember eating an awful lot of lentil soup as a student! I'd agree with Claire - pulses are amazing value for money. Lentils, beans or chickpeas, a can of tomatoes and an onion or two and you're away.

Flourgirl 02-28-2007 09:51 AM

I remember "shopping" at our local food pantry, adding water to milk to make it go farther, buying only what was on sale, and eating rice & beans for breakfast and dinner. And that wasn't all that long ago. Except for the chickens, I think this is an helpful article.

Claire 03-01-2007 05:54 PM

Choosing to raise your children yourself is not something I'd call "poverty by choice". By the time you pay everything it takes to keep a child constructively occupied for 50 hours a week minimum, you wind up more in debt (since you're working, you have a higher credit rating) unless you make the big bucks, which we are NOT talking about here.

The fresh veggies thing ... especially if you live in a four seasons area, it is often a bargain to buy bags of frozen vegs. You can take a handful at a time and the rest of the bag will last for a long time. They can be thawed and rinsed, dressed and served as a salad even. I know it is very popular to say you should eat only fresh veggies, locally grown, and in season. Who are we kidding here?

There is also a difference between what is a bargain for a single person living alone, a single person living with room mates (who, experience tells me, may grab anything you prepare from the fridge, thereby eliminating any savings you might acquire by cooking at home (yes, been there, done that)), a couple, or a family. City living and country living make a vast difference (no live poultry in suburbs or apartments, sorry. In most places in the 'states that's illegal or at least against community regulations).

There's also a vast difference between nowadays and my day and real olden days. I see the salad bars in grocery stores and really, really wish we had them when I was young and broke. Such a variety of fresh foods for a decent price. Salad bars were only in restaurants when I was that age, places I couldn't afford on a regular basis. It was cheaper to buy a head of lettuce and a tomato and throw the excess away when it went bad. Well, I never let it happen. I found something to do with that lettuce!

There is also a huge difference between what is considered poor now, what it was when I was 20, and what it was when I was a child. And I'm only going back to the 60s, not the depression!

So keep all the great suggestions coming. Us oldsters (52, here) have to remember that it IS different from generation to generation, from location to location, and family situation.

Constance 03-01-2007 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
Choosing to raise your children yourself is not something I'd call "poverty by choice". By the time you pay everything it takes to keep a child constructively occupied for 50 hours a week minimum, you wind up more in debt (since you're working, you have a higher credit rating) unless you make the big bucks, which we are NOT talking about here.

I know exactly what you mean. It was my choice to be a stay-at-home mom with my kids, but when we really got in a pinch a few times, I looked into getting a job. By the time I paid for child care, I'd have gone in the hole. Instead, I did sewing and alterations in my home, which brought in extra money for the kids' shoes and such. Luckily, I had 2 little girls, so I was able to make their clothes and mine.

I managed to feed my family healthy balanced meals for very little money by following certain rules:

*Search the newspaper ads for what's on sale, keeping in mind that buying something because it's on sale won't do any good if you don't use it.
*Save coupons, remembering the same thing. Why buy ready made cookie dough, when it's cheaper and better to make your own?
*Remember, some purchases may seem expensive at the time, but if it's something you'll use a lot (like a big box of black pepper), it's a bargain. USUALLY items are cheaper per weight when you buy a larger quantity...it's a packing thing. However, this is not always true, so check your prices.
*With some exceptions, convenience foods are EXPENSIVE! It's usually cheaper and better to make your own...but not always. And sometimes the convenience is worth the extra cost. For instance, Bisquick, basic flavored cake mixes, Jiffy cornbread mix, certain seasoning blends, etc are worth having on hand.
*Learn to cut your own meat. A whole chicken is a great bargain, and you can easily cut it the way you like and put it in ziplocks of breast, thighs, legs and wings, and scraps for the stockpot. Instead of buying stew meat, buy a chuck, arm or sirloin tip roast and cut it into cubes yourself.
*Eat more turkey. It's the best buy per pound for protein, and the larger the turkey, the more you save. It's easily frozen in small ziplocks for casseroles and such.
*Never let a bird carcass go to waste. Boil it for broth, freeze, and save for soups and other uses. I find that once I strain the broth, it's best to let it simmer until it reduces by half.
*Do raise your own garden, if you can, but keep in mind...that food doesn't come free either. Besides the seeds and plants, you need fertilizers, bug dust, and a lot of water. There are a lot of items that are cheaper to buy in the long run.
*DO NOT BUY JUNK FOOD. Enough said.

I'll probably think of more, but this is a start.

StirBlue 03-01-2007 09:50 PM

Save coupons, ziplocks, Boil it, lot of water, Junk Food:

These are some of the most costly items to be reasoned with yet. There are rare exceptions when a coupon is offered for milk, vegetables, meat, etc. It is usually buy x-amount of products and get a free gallon of milk.

Ziplocks are absolutely expensive. Storage containers last forever. You'll waste every penny you save on bulk when you turn the corner and stock up on plastic storage bags. People who wash these bags to reuse are investing in cleaning products, water, energy. (you cannot sanitize a plastic bag)

Boil it means using hours of energy.

Lots of water means seeing the expense on the water bill.

Every generation has it's junk food. While one group may buy plain yogurt and add fresh fruit, another is buying fruit n' yogurt cups, and another is squeezing it from a tube.

Cutting corners depends on what you are spending on in the first place. You should not try to put three months of groceries into your one month budget.

A garden is nice but it is not a sure thing and depends on the weather conditions.

Hunting is not a free turkey, deer, etc. It cost hundreds of dollars on license, fees, not to mention equipment. It cost even more when you do not have a license and get caught.

Once a year I bake a popular cookie. The products cost $20-$30 and the recipe makes about 4 dzn. Cookie dough cost about $2-$3 per dozen so 4 dzn cookies would cost $8-$12.

I check the grocery store ads against my shopping list to see where I will save more. It's usually about even.

People used to think it was cheaper to live in a rundown neighborhood and shop at rundown grocery stores. The opposite was true.

One day, I check my grocery list (a bill of groceries in the day) and I realized my grocery list was 25 years old and some of the products were not even available anymore. We no longer buy powdered sugar by the lb box. We buy a bag and measure it. etc. Many cuts of meat, poultry, ham and fish are also not available. Some days, shopping can be a real challenege.

auntdot 03-01-2007 10:50 PM

I remember when I was a kid and working in grocery stores after school and during the summer.

I did the lousy jobs, for example, cleaning up the garbage room that was filled with rats. When you went in you turned on the light and they scattered. You waited a few seconds before entering further to make sure they were gone.

The worst task was cleaning the worms (? maggots, anyway they looked like them) off the potatoes and saving those spuds that looked OK to be put back for sale.

One of my jobs was to put out in the trash the food that had to be tossed, and the store did not relegate items to the dumpster easily.

We had a routine and the very poorest folks in the area knew when we did it.

Some of the people working in the store would try to destroy the stuff before putting it outside. They would berate the folks waiting outside, big shots they thought they were.

They had a job. Little did they know how close to the people standing outside they were.

I always put the stuff out in a way they could take the edible parts (although I learned later that all of it was considered edible). They were all old, probably a lot younger than I am today, but clearly needy.

If someone wants to learn about needy would suggest reading Jack London's 'People of the Abyss'. Just Google and you can read it on the web for no cost (there are many books that are out of copyrite one can read that way).

If I have a point, and I guess I must have one, it is that there are many folks who are in true poverty, not the dude who scribed those 'tips'. To him it was self imposed.

And we, for several years, lived not too far from that, but never had to miss a meal.

But many folks still have to.

So I choose to direct my charity to those who truly need it, today's people in the abyss.

Sorry about the rant, just had to do it.

StirBlue 03-02-2007 06:32 PM

Brands of peanut butter not affected by the recall, are dirt cheap....STOCK UP! :tongue:

Constance 03-02-2007 08:00 PM

Quoting Stirblur, "A garden is nice but it is not a sure thing and depends on the weather conditions.

Hunting is not a free turkey, deer, etc. It cost hundreds of dollars on license, fees, not to mention equipment. It cost even more when you do not have a license and get caught."

Amen. Sounds like you've been there, done that.

I just asked DH how much he thought our venison cost per pound, and he wouldn't even attempt an estimate. Think guns, clothing, other equipment, vehicle, licenses, permits and beer.

Need I elaborate on how much the black bass costs?

As for the garden, I forgot to include several costs, like electricity or gas used to can your food, or doctor bills for your hurt back.

You know, I think the most important thing is to use your common sense.

jpmcgrew 03-02-2007 08:52 PM

:smile: Gardening can be a great extra if you dont have a yard you can grow alot of things in a 5 gallon bucket just drill a few holes into the bottom put some styrofoam pieces in for drainage and then the soil and it costs nothing to make some compost or get some plant food.I can grow 2-3 tomato plants in a bucket and get a whole bunch of tomatoes.I do this in my tiny green house [8 by 10 feet to keep the deer away]I also use big plastic storage tubs.You dont need the green house you can do it in a sunny window.

Corey123 03-02-2007 09:39 PM

For a look at poverty living, Will Smith's latest movie, The Pursuit of Happyness will give you a moving and powerful look at how this disease affects those who may encounter it.

He plays Christopher Gardner, who, with his then small son in tow, went from real-life rags to riches by landing a good paying job as a broker.

Smith's own real-life son little Jaden Christopher Seayer Smith played his son in the film. It was both sad and heartwarming to me. It should be coming to pay-per-view soon.

jpmcgrew 03-02-2007 10:06 PM

:smile: Corey,Im curious how is poverty a disease?

Corey123 03-02-2007 10:17 PM

It depends on how you look at it. Just in mental terms maybe.

It is sometimes paired with alcoholism and drug addiction. Or just a person falling on exremely hard times like in the movie and being forced to live out in the streets or subway.

What would you call it? A disadvantage, maybe?

StirBlue 03-02-2007 10:26 PM

If poverty is a disease then we are one sick nation! Poverty is circumstance, struggle and sacrifice.
It takes a lot to get on your feet and become poor! :huh:

StirBlue 03-03-2007 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntdot
I remember when I was a kid and working in grocery stores after school and during the summer.

I did the lousy jobs, for example, cleaning up the garbage room that was filled with rats. When you went in you turned on the light and they scattered. You waited a few seconds before entering further to make sure they were gone.

The worst task was cleaning the worms (? maggots, anyway they looked like them) off the potatoes and saving those spuds that looked OK to be put back for sale.

One of my jobs was to put out in the trash the food that had to be tossed, and the store did not relegate items to the dumpster easily.

We had a routine and the very poorest folks in the area knew when we did it.

Some of the people working in the store would try to destroy the stuff before putting it outside. They would berate the folks waiting outside, big shots they thought they were.

They had a job. Little did they know how close to the people standing outside they were.

I always put the stuff out in a way they could take the edible parts (although I learned later that all of it was considered edible). They were all old, probably a lot younger than I am today, but clearly needy.

If someone wants to learn about needy would suggest reading Jack London's 'People of the Abyss'. Just Google and you can read it on the web for no cost (there are many books that are out of copyrite one can read that way).

If I have a point, and I guess I must have one, it is that there are many folks who are in true poverty, not the dude who scribed those 'tips'. To him it was self imposed.

And we, for several years, lived not too far from that, but never had to miss a meal.

But many folks still have to.

So I choose to direct my charity to those who truly need it, today's people in the abyss.

Sorry about the rant, just had to do it.


Your post reminded me of an experience that happened about five years ago.
We had a camping trip planned and my family was supposed to bring the eggs. There were several families and we needed eight dozen eggs for the weekend camp out.
When I went to the store, I realized that eggs were on sale 2/$1 (no limit).
I purchased 14 dozen (6 dzn for home). I went to the check out and there was a couple (man & woman) being checked out. They had bought the frozen pizza special 5/$10 (no limit) and were paying for about 20 pizzas. Then they were gone. The cashier was nice and put 2 dzn eggs to a bag for me. After packing the eggs in the car, I drove home.
The dogs got to barking and when I looked out my window, I noticed a car parked along side the curb with somebody sitting inside. When the dogs started barking again, I looked out and a man had left the car and was throwing away a drink cup in a neighbor's trash can.
He was the man who had checked out in front of me with the pizzas and the other person in the car was the woman. They had followed me home.
I called the police and they came out. They arrested the couple who had warrants out for their arrest for burglary and home invasion.
We felt like others were involved with these people because they never found the pizza.
People do watch grocery stores and shoppers.

Candocook 03-03-2007 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey123
It depends on how you look at it. Just in mental terms maybe.

It is sometimes paired with alcoholism and drug addiction. Or just a person falling on exremely hard times like in the movie and being forced to live out in the streets or subway.

What would you call it? A disadvantage, maybe?

There is much more to poverty than circumstance. Much of it is epidemic, endemic, institutionally set by government policy--and well-meaning rescuers. AND it does become a mindset in those that are affected. It behooves those of us who are NOT in poverty to understand its roots and rip them out. We will all be raised. AND it is NOT a question of being too lazy to get work or to help themselves.

Claire 03-03-2007 07:12 AM

I, also, make a point of donating to my local food bank. Over the years I've met, like, and admire a lot of "charity professionals". They usually make more than my husband and me, put together, ever have. I'm sure they are worth every penny, BUT .... I don't want to pay their salaries. So I go shopping every month or so and leave a few bags at the food bank. At Christmas I thow a party with a "price of admission" of food, paper, or cleaning products. I've been "broke"; thank heaven never needed to use this service (indeed, I didn't know it existed!) -- when I was down & out I was gainfully employed ... my hospital bills just put me so far down I really didn't ever think I'd be out of debt. Luckily my mother taught and preached birth control (don't have babies until you can support them), so at least I wasn't a single mother. I also have to laugh. She insisted I learn to type; and much as I hated that, I also have never had to be a minimum wage slave. In D.C., if you had ten fingers and knew how to use them, and a CLEAN history (i.e., can pass a security clearance), well, you had a job. Back in those days you could not use a credit card at grocery stores, so I often ate stuff that I could "buy" at drug stores. It cost more (a LOT more), but when there is nothing behind the check ..... many weeks I ate frozen pizzas and other convenience foods because that's what I could put on VISA. It is a false economy, but that is all I had the few days before payday.

Corey123 03-03-2007 08:23 AM

If anyone wanted to know or see poverty first-hand, then Hurricane Katrina was one of the perfect examples of that subject.

Two small children were on the air on location just days after the monster storm hit. A little boy named Charlie, age 9, spoke out. "We just need some help out here. It's pitiful, it's pitiful!!", he yelled. Then a little girl spoke out.

When I saw that, I lost it, became so upset that I cried!! My heart just poured out to those two kids!! I wished that there was some way to help them.

skilletlicker 03-03-2007 11:28 AM

I've been way closer to poor than rich, and slightly closer to rich than poor.

In my very humble opinion, if we can feel good about feeding a third world child for "less than a dollar a day," we would do well to think of our own nourishment in the same light. There are many folks, in the US and elsewhere who could benefit from better nutrition. For instance, I have looked into the matter on the Internet but I can't find the the nutritional value of a well made stock. Is collagen a good nutritional dollar value?

I think that we, in this forum, could provide a wealth of information to folks, here and abroad, struggling to get enough calories and nutrition on limited resources, and that it would be best to do it in a dedicated forum.

There is an attitude that if you can afford a computer you aren't poor but I think computer access, worldwide, is becoming almost as ubiquitous as radio. This forum is big enough to include information for both the molecular gastronomists, and very basic home economists, struggling to keep their families healthy.

What do you think?

Corey123 03-03-2007 12:07 PM

I absolutely HATE to see or hear of people starving and in poverty, especially children!! They just can't help themselves, and they should not have to go through that ordeal.

Cable and satelite TV are supposed to be considered a luxury as well, but who wants to be fighting all the time with rabbit ears?

skilletlicker 03-03-2007 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey123
I absolutely HATE to see or hear of people starving and in poverty, especially children!! They just can't help themselves, and they should not have to go through that ordeal.

Cable and satelite TV are supposed to be considered a luxury as well, but who wants to be fighting all the time with rabbit ears?

OK Corey, you're a gadget guy. The old story is grind your corn once a week and your wheat once a month. How about you and I chip in, maybe with some help from other folks in the forum, to provide a communal mill and some corn and wheat to a family, or even a refugee camp or village in Darfur?


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