Shun Premier

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Hardly Core

Assistant Cook
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Anyone have experience with a Shun Premier series Chef's knife or Santoku? I'm about to buy my first good knife. (I'm sure there are a lot of these threads, but I can't find anything on the forum about this line). I'll admit I am drawn to the look of these knives. And I am not at all going to buy one because it looks cool, but I am leaning toward it as an option. Ultimately I'm drawn to old technology. French or German plain old carbon steel really sucks me in. I like to take care of my tools. I don't mind keeping cast iron (which I use nearly exclusively) or maintaining my carbon steel woks. I guess I'm wondering if the Premier knives from Shun are all about looks.
 
I don't have any experience with the Premier series but last christmas we got 3 knives in the classic line and they have been immensley disappointing. All 3 blades have developed chips making them unusable. The retailer where I bought them says that they were 'abused' but they haven't been. I have never damaged a knife in my life and am very careful with them. I'm sticking with my old henckles.
 
Chips aren't really a big deal, unless they're absolutely enormous. They'll sharpen right out. Even good sized chips will be gone after a few sharpenings. In the case of very bad ones I generally work the chips out on a belt grinder, then sharpen 'em up by hand. I've fixed some dreadful damage that way.:)

That said, I'll agree that Shuns chip more easily than a Wusthof, just comes with the territory with a thinner edge that's a lot harder. Just for kicks you ought to post a picture of the damage.
 
To the OP- I haven't yet handled one of the new Shuns, but the steel seems to be the same. The differences between those and the Classics appear to just be cosmetic.
 
Replying to the OP, just to talk a bit more about carbon steel.

Compared to any Stainless steel, Carbon steel will
- Take a sharper edge
- Be easier to resharpen/hone
- Is more ductile and is therefore less likely to chip, snap or dent if dropped (it bends then flexes back into position.

This all comes down to the fact the when you introduce chrome into a steel alloy it forms much larger crystals than an alloy without chrome.

The downside.
- You will need to put a lot more maintenance into it. If you don't dry it immediately after use and oil it up when put into storage it will rust. Rust will form in less than 24 hours if you put it away damp.
- The corners on the spine of the knife are actually sharp and can draw blood. I learned that one the hard way.
- You should be using a smooth steel, not a grooved steel for honing. You get a better result but it takes more effort. I use a pre ww2 F Dick steel, but if you could get your hands on an old English pipe steel that would be even better. If you want to go modern you could go glass or ceramic, but I haven't used those so can't comment specifically on their suitability for CS knives.

I wouldn't get a CS knife unless
(a) it was going to be used very regularly; and
(b) you know how to sharpen it yourself.
If you're not using it on a daily basis you could end up with a very nasty surprise if you get careless with it, and if you're not sharpening it yourself you're not getting the full benefit of truly scary sharpness.

On the positive side you can get very good CS knives for about half the price of a good J-knife. Lion, 'K', or Elephant Sabatier are all good brands (There's about 8 companies that can use the 'Sabatier' name). Robert Herder is a good name for German CS knives, but postage from Germany is a killer.
 
some very good input, thanks everyone. I'm still drawn to carbon steel. It will be used daily, and well taken care of. Also, I may not know how to sharpen it myself but the store I'm buying from offers free sharpening for life. (a good deal I figured). And I know I'll learn how to do it myself anyhow. I hate people doing things for me that I know I'm capable of with a good bit of practice.
But the shun knives. . . They are made of damascus high carbon stainless steel. And they seem to have a great following. They are said to hold an edge as long as any.

Any other opinions out there?
 
some very good input, thanks everyone. I'm still drawn to carbon steel. It will be used daily, and well taken care of. Also, I may not know how to sharpen it myself but the store I'm buying from offers free sharpening for life. (a good deal I figured). And I know I'll learn how to do it myself anyhow. I hate people doing things for me that I know I'm capable of with a good bit of practice.
But the shun knives. . . They are made of damascus high carbon stainless steel. And they seem to have a great following. They are said to hold an edge as long as any.

Any other opinions out there?
I would be careful of a free sharpening service on a good knife. Good sharpening takes talent, practice, and time.
 
One thing I'd suggest if you go with a Euro carbon is to find a brand that doesn't have a bolster. That's the super thick part that runs from the heel of the blade up to the choil. A full bolster will make it impossible to sharpen the edge all the way to the heel. Eventually you'll get a little hollow spot just in front of the bolster where the edge won't touch the cutting board anymore. Very annoying. Skillful sharpening, taking off just the minimal amount, will prolong the inevitable but if you don't reduce the bolster you'll get that spot eventually. At least if you sharpen on stones.

I'm not 100% in agreement that carbon always takes a better edge than all modern stainless steels. I think the difference is a bit overblown. Sure, the chrom/moly stuff that most Euro knives use isn't as good as decent carbon, but I've found that many modern tool steels and alloys will take a very good edge indeed. Many will hold that edge better than carbon, especially if you cut acid stuff like pineapple and tomatoes.
 
some very good input, thanks everyone. I'm still drawn to carbon steel. It will be used daily, and well taken care of. Also, I may not know how to sharpen it myself but the store I'm buying from offers free sharpening for life. (a good deal I figured). And I know I'll learn how to do it myself anyhow. I hate people doing things for me that I know I'm capable of with a good bit of practice.
But the shun knives. . . They are made of damascus high carbon stainless steel. And they seem to have a great following. They are said to hold an edge as long as any.

Any other opinions out there?

Shuns aren't made from Damascus Steel, they are made from VG-10 steel and then clad with Damascus steel, which as far as I can tell is mainly for cosmetic purposes. Still is excellent knife steel and is no way a criticism of the Shun, it's just the damascus steel is there to look pretty while the VG-10 steel does the hard work.

There's no such thing as knife steel that is good at everything. So by making a knife out of harder steel, the following benefits are gained.
- The knife can be thinner
- The knife will retain its edge for longer
But it comes with the following costs
- The knife is more brittle and more susceptible to chips, especially the tip.
- It takes longer and requires more effort to hone/sharpen the edge.

Comparing the a VG-10 J-Knife (eg Shun) to a Carbon Steel knife.
The CS knife will require more regular sharpening and much more maintenance. Both will take incredibly sharp edges, and the J-Knife will hold its edge for longer. The CS knife will be more resilient to drops and accidents.
 
One thing I'd suggest if you go with a Euro carbon is to find a brand that doesn't have a bolster. That's the super thick part that runs from the heel of the blade up to the choil. A full bolster will make it impossible to sharpen the edge all the way to the heel. Eventually you'll get a little hollow spot just in front of the bolster where the edge won't touch the cutting board anymore. Very annoying. Skillful sharpening, taking off just the minimal amount, will prolong the inevitable but if you don't reduce the bolster you'll get that spot eventually. At least if you sharpen on stones.

Wow, great timing. A friend yesterday brought this to my attention and I logged onto the site today to ask about it. Thank you Rob for your foresight. I notice that the Japanese knives don't use a full bolster (maybe some do, I'm just observing lately). When I held a few knives in my hand at the store I noticed the full bolster felt odd to me. But I couldn't pinpoint that that is what was different from the knives I've used. I'm new to the quality knife thing. I'm going back on Tuesday to try out a few knives. The help from this site is awesome. Now I have a lot more info to compare with when I actually start cutting with a few different knives.
 
Some very good food for though JP. thank you. AARRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! I'm so torn.

So if I want a knife to own for 80 years, I should probably go Euro carbon steel. (which I'm drawn to because I love all things French and all thing of old technology and simplicity). I won't be unhappy at all with this way sharper than anything i've owned knife.

If I want performance and stay-sharpness (longer) and a bit less maintenance I should go with the Shun knife I fell for in the store. (It's so purrrty).
So, lambo, or volvo?
 
Shuns aren't made from Damascus Steel, they are made from VG-10 steel and then clad with Damascus steel, which as far as I can tell is mainly for cosmetic purposes. Still is excellent knife steel and is no way a criticism of the Shun, it's just the damascus steel is there to look pretty while the VG-10 steel does the hard work.

There's no such thing as knife steel that is good at everything. So by making a knife out of harder steel, the following benefits are gained.
- The knife can be thinner
- The knife will retain its edge for longer
But it comes with the following costs
- The knife is more brittle and more susceptible to chips, especially the tip.
- It takes longer and requires more effort to hone/sharpen the edge.

Comparing the a VG-10 J-Knife (eg Shun) to a Carbon Steel knife.
The CS knife will require more regular sharpening and much more maintenance. Both will take incredibly sharp edges, and the J-Knife will hold its edge for longer. The CS knife will be more resilient to drops and accidents.
I'm not sure that this is correct. Isn't Damascus steel the laminated blank, including both the exterior layers and the internal much harder steel? The VG10 steel takes and holds an edge very well, but is brittle. The softer exterior layers allow more give to the knife.
 
I use steel for everything except for some vegetables. My mother got me a ceramic knife for Christmas and I use it for my salad chopping. I like the ceramic for this chore but, when it comes to dicing and quick chopping that most cooks need to do I always use the chef's knife that was a gift from a cooking teacher years ago. I keep it sharpened and oiled just like she taught me to.
 
Agree with jpaulg on that matter. Maybe it just depends on how we maintain each of them.
 
If I want performance and stay-sharpness (longer) and a bit less maintenance I should go with the Shun knife I fell for in the store. (It's so purrrty).
So, lambo, or volvo?

Think of it more as a comparison between an 2010 Mitsubishi Evo and a 1985 Peugot 205 Turbo 16.

Either way both will require significant amounts of maintenance to get the best out of them, when compared to a Wusthof or Henckels. Provided that you are prepared to put in the maintenance either the Sab or Shun can be excellent knives.

Find a good CS Sabatier and just pick it up side by side with a Shun and see which feels more comfortable in your hand. Leaving aside everything else this is something that will become part of your life for a long time, so go with the one that feels the best in your hand.
 
I can't wait for tuesday to chop a few carrots in the store with a few different knives. they have a wonderful demonstration kitchen to try them out in! Thanks for the help everyone.
 
So, I went to the kitchen store last night. I tried 7 knives out on some carrots. I chopped and chopped. I cut big chunks, I cut strips, I diced up some cubes and eventually, after having nothing but finely shredded and minced carrot in front of me, the Shun Classic 10" chef's knife won me over. The premier was second, but the hammered finish, as cool as it looks, wasn't practical. It seemed a bit slower against my guiding knuckle. I hated to go with the biggest knife out of the bunch, but it felt so comfortable. I can use any part or nearly all of the 10" blade. The coolest part was that it felt obvious. It was the knife for me.
When I got home I immediately started dinner. Some fresh cherry tomatoes, (although I hate out of season food) quartered, some minced up garlic, 3 cloves; and then finally while finely chopping the freshly picked basil from off my porch I took a a fair sized slice off my thumb. Didn't even feel it. It was so nice to bond with my new knife. And my favorite meal has never been so good.
 
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