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Old 05-07-2007, 10:09 AM   #1
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Question Need help with a recipe, doesn't look right somehow

hi wonderful cooks out there.
I tore a recipe out of a magazine yesterday.
thought it would be a good thing to do as a large crowd pleaser say over the holidays as something different from ham or turkey.
the time doesn't look right to me though nor does the temp of the oven.
going to loosely tell you the recipe as it was written, so as to not infringe on it's originality. plagiarism scares me

3 large onions cut into rings, put half on bottom of baking dish

rinse and clean 5 lb. brisket/pat dry/then salt and pepper both sides

bottle chili sauce
red wine
package dry flavored soup mix ( same kind as makes a famous dip )
mix soup mix/wine/chili sauce together pour over brisket

place rest of onions on top of brisket, cover and bake @ 375° 4 hours.

does that seem like it's too hot and too long? I picture a very dry piece of meat, where's all the moisture supposed to come from if only using 1/2 bottle of wine?

will make this if any one actually thinks it'd work.

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Old 05-07-2007, 10:25 AM   #2
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I think it's OK. What you're doing is braising it as you would a pot roast. Ther will be plenty of moisture from the wine, chili sauce, onions and the meat itself. I'd give it a try.
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:36 AM   #3
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I agree with Andy. If you're putting in a whole bottle of chili sauce, which is 12 ounces I think, that's a cup and a half of liquid right there. Plus, you say you're adding wine, too. The only thing I would made sure is that the lid fits nice and tightly on the dish/Dutch oven/pan, whatever you will cook it in. Sounds good.
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:41 AM   #4
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Some moisture will come from the meat itself, in addition to the wine & chili sauce. And all moisture should recycle as steam if there is a good lid on the baking dish. As Andy says, you are braising, not roasting.

If you are not covering the baking dish, it's a different story!
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:57 AM   #5
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I make a similar brisket - I only put in 1/4 cup chili sauce a little brown sugar and here's the kicker a beer! Bake at 325, I think 375 is too hot - long and slow is the trick.

Enjoy!
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:15 AM   #6
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LEFSElover: Your recipe calls for an expensive investment in the meat and your concern is very valid. I too agree that the temperature seems too hot. Usually meat is cooked in the oven at 325F (unless you are in a very cold climate during the winter and it is 20 degrees outside then you have to up the temp to 350F) You are also at the maximum weight (5lbs). You should not have to have this in the oven longer than 3 hours. This type of meat should produce a lot of meat juice so I would not put the sauce on until the meat is 2/3 done (or only has 1 hour left for cooking) as all the juices from the meat will dilute the sauce. You should drain off the excess juice from the pan first and then add the sauce, cover and return to the oven.
I generally test recipes before the holiday it is going to be one of the main entrees. (it is better to cook two briskets than to get a thicker heaver one.)
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:34 AM   #7
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I normally cook beef roasts for 30 minutes at 500F, then reduce it to 350F and cook for 20 minutes per pound, which in the case of your 5 pound brisket would be less than 2 hours. Cook it for 4 hours and I think you're gonna end up with fillet of sole, and heel!*









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Old 05-07-2007, 11:36 AM   #8
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I think I would check it after a couple of hours at that temp and see what the internal temp is.
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Old 05-07-2007, 12:06 PM   #9
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Remember, this is brisket, a very tough, gnarly cut that needs a long, slow, moist cooking to render all the connective tissues into gelatin. Since this is braised, in a covered roaster with a tight-fitting lid, I'd check it halfway just to ensure that it's not drying out. However, I do feel the temp is a little high. Lower it down to 325, maybe even 300 degrees F.
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Old 05-07-2007, 12:43 PM   #10
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Miss Lefselover...

Quick and simple! There will be plenty of liquid! (If the lid is fairly tight)
375* for 4 hours is Too Hot and too fast!! for a brisket
The lower and slower the better!
I never go over 300* Usually in the 250* zone or lower.
Time will be in the 6-8+ hour range!


(Wonder if Hushpuppies would be good with this )

Enjoy!
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Old 05-07-2007, 01:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Miss Lefselover...

Quick and simple! There will be plenty of liquid! (If the lid is fairly tight)
375* for 4 hours is Too Hot and too fast!! for a brisket
The lower and slower the better!
I never go over 300* Usually in the 250* zone or lower.
Time will be in the 6-8+ hour range!


(Wonder if Hushpuppies would be good with this )

Enjoy!
I'd go along with Uncle Bob's suggestion except for the Hush Puppies
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Old 05-07-2007, 01:09 PM   #12
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Never tried hushpuppies with brisket, but hey, ya never know!

Maybe a better idea would be just plain hot corn bread with Steens 100% Pure Cane Syrup on top! Ya think!!
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Old 05-07-2007, 01:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Miss Lefselover...

Quick and simple! There will be plenty of liquid! (If the lid is fairly tight)
375* for 4 hours is Too Hot and too fast!! for a brisket
The lower and slower the better!
I never go over 300* Usually in the 250* zone or lower.
Time will be in the 6-8+ hour range!


(Wonder if Hushpuppies would be good with this )

Enjoy!
Uncle Bob, your time and temp are right on for smoking in a smoker. She is braising in liquid. The time and temp in the original recipe will work. If it overcooks, it will fall apart rather than turining into shoe leather.
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Old 05-07-2007, 03:16 PM   #14
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I agree with Andy, it should come out fine. Because the brisket is a pretty flat cut of meat (as opposed to a rump or chuck roast), the liquid should come up at least 3/4 of the way up. If it doesn't, just add a little more wine. No matter what the temp of the oven is, the braising liquid will never get higher than 212 degree F. And unless your brisket is Kobe, Wagyu, or Angus, it's an inexpensive cut of meat. What you would want to change in the recipe is:

1. Pan sear the meat after you season it and then deglaze the pan with the wine, stir in your chili sauce, lay down the onion rings, and then place the meat on top.

2. Get rid of the packaged onion soup mix and flavor the broth with similar components to get a similar flavor. If you use the onion soup mix, you have no way of controlling the amount of salt that goes into the braising liquid.

When it's done, don't forget to cut it thinly against the grain. This is the same cut of meat that is used to make fresh corned beef so treat it as such when you're slicing it.
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Old 05-07-2007, 03:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Uncle Bob, your time and temp are right on for smoking in a smoker. She is braising in liquid. The time and temp in the original recipe will work. If it overcooks, it will fall apart rather than turining into shoe leather.
Andy...

As shocking as it may seem I did understand the recipe to be "braising"(?) rather than smoking! I strongly disagree (my opinion) with the recipe instruction of 375 for 4 hours! (Which was the question the lady posed) Will it work? Yes maybe! Will it produce something I would enjoy eating? probably not. Beef brisket is better served by cooking at low tempertures over a long period of time regardless of the cooking method. The results you state(your words surely not mine) I have never experienced after 6 hours or so at 250*or less. Thrice with a packer brisket at oven setting "low" and all night long. The lady ask for opinions and I stated mine. So now I will allow you have the last word! (maybe)

Regards...
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Old 05-07-2007, 03:37 PM   #16
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Uncle Bob, I'll deefer to your knowledge of braising brisket for 6 hours at 250F. I've never done that.

I have braised meats at higher temperatures for shorter periods (3-4 hours) and they have been fine.

Let's agree that both could work.
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Old 05-07-2007, 03:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Uncle Bob, I'll deefer to your knowledge of braising brisket for 6 hours at 250F. I've never done that.

I have braised meats at higher temperatures for shorter periods (3-4 hours) and they have been fine.

Let's agree that both could work.
Bon Appetit Sir!
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:29 AM   #18
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[quote=LEFSElover]Here is one dilemma...not sure what chili sauce really is. Haven't ever bought it. I mean, is it that stuff that comes in a bottle with a white metal lid with maybe white writing on the bottle and consists of something that tastes like ketchup/worchestershire/horseradish/etc? How liquid is that stuff? The lid/cover has to be really secure, that much seemed important. Maybe foil first then a tight fitting lid even over that just to make sure the steam can't escape.
Not a chance Uncle Bob. I'll take your partial suggestion, but, it'll HAVE to be Lyle's Golden Syrup PERIOD!

Actually, the recipe says nothing of cooking in hot fat/oil/butter first, which is what many of the terms found here
cooking term, braising - Google Search
partially describe braising as...............also mentioned in the above is using a little/small amount of liquid, plus reading the above, the times and temps don't seem to jive either.
if any one wants to look these up you'll be surprised as I was, and the typo's are the weirdest thing ever, too. written incorrectly, misspelled, typed wrong, all trying to explain braising to me. again, it never said to cook the meat first in oil or fat. so if that is part and parcel of braising, then I am not supposed to be braising according to the recipe.
I feel a headache coming on. I've just looked online at the Magazine that printed this and oddly enough, 'that' recipe isn't online [only others] from the party menu. Humm...
Tomorrow, I'll sit spending hours in the largest independent bookstore in the world...
Powells bookstore - Google Search

From there, I hope to get some insight on a recipe such as this...just me, my diet soda and tons of cookbooks, I'll be in heaven




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Old 05-08-2007, 08:55 AM   #19
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Miss LEFSElover....


Never had the Lyle's Golden Syrup, but it ain't noway it's better than Steen's Cane syrup!!









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Old 05-08-2007, 01:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Miss LEFSElover....


Never had the Lyle's Golden Syrup, but it ain't noway it's better than Steen's Cane syrup!!
oh do check your PM's please
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