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Old 10-13-2006, 12:51 PM   #41
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:59 PM   #42
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every restaurant should be givin the oppertunity to right a wrong. There is ALWAYS something they can do to make sure the guest leaves with a smile on thier face.
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB
I have been thinking about this topic a lot since I made this post. You all have convinced me that a smaller tip would have been the right course of action. I now agree with that.

But...now I am looking at it from the other side and wondering if it would really even make a difference. We are all saying that we need to send a message, by way of a small tip, that the service was not up to par. What I am now wondering though is if this message would really get across or if the waiter would just think he was being stiffed or short tipped. I have been on a number of websites where waiters and waitresses moan and groan about their jobs and getting bad tips. It is rare to ever hear any of them on these websites say that they deserved a bad tip. It is always the customers fault. Now to be fair to the waitstaff, I have seen a lot of people tip very poorly so I don't doubt it happens, but I am just wondering if the message actually gets through when it is mean to show how bad the service was.
Gary: you are right. leaving pennies sends no message unless you TELL someone what was amiss. It's important to do that. Talk to the owner if that person is on premise, or the manager. If it's a chain, go on-line when you get home and email their customer service.

There is not one restaurant in the US that can afford to have one dissatisfied customer. For every restaurant that opens each year, TWO close. often because of inattention to detail. As consumers, we have the right to expect good service, and when we don't get it, we have an obligation to tell whomever it is that can make it better.
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:21 PM   #44
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How did we get from 10% to 20% over the yrs?

GB is right about the waiters ranting online. Check out some of those sites and you'd think us customers are the most evil scum walking the earth. Angry, angry, angry. I so love to go out to eat and well reward a server who makes that experience enjoyable. But if they have the "there's nothing I can do about that problem" attitude, what recourse do I have save to short tip and lodge a complaint? (And never go back?!)

I want to understand why the percentage of tippage (is that a word?) rises at all. Could someone well versed in econ explain it to me? Tips used to be 10%, then 15%, then 20% and now, in major urban areas 25%. A quarter of the tab is the tip?! But if the price of FOOD is going up thru the yrs (ever have a $10 sandwich at the local pub? I certainly have.) why should the TIP go up since it is based on the price of the food? I am never stingy w/ tipping, I just want to understand the WHY of the higher percentage thru the yrs.
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:29 PM   #45
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I'd not have left a tip - but then your culture is a little different from mine! Not a cent; and an explanation to the waiter, the hostess, the manager, the cleaner, the doorman and anyone else who wanted to hear why I did not leave a tip. The waiter is part of a team, so they all have to take responsibility. If the waiter wanted to complain to the kitchen afterwards, good.
However, I leave a tip based on the service I receive, which is where the difference lies. No-one over here would ever DREAM of leaving 20%. GASP!!!
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:40 PM   #46
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The amount of the tip has gone up because in most places waiters are paid abut $2 an hour, if that. The restaurateurs have placed the well being of the waiter at the mercy of the customer in US. From my travels, I thought 20% was only common in large cities, and that elsewhere 15% was still the going rate. I have never heard of 25%!!! and don't ever intend to leave that much anywhere!
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:14 PM   #47
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ChefJune, 10 yrs ago did servers make a large base wage? I don't know how that used to work. Is the idea that servers used to make a real wage paid by the owner but now the slack is to be taken up by the customer? If that is the case I suppose the hike in % makes sense.

Let's say 10 yrs ago (this is a loose eg.!) I would pay $15 for a meal and now I'm paying $30 b/c prices have gone up. So didn't the tip go up accordingly wo/ the need to raise it from 10% to 20%? I'm so bad at the math! If my food price goes up, does not the tip as well wo/ the need for the % to go up?

As for the 25%, yes, sadly, I've heard some waiters in upscale joints say they think that is reasonable, 20% adequate, 15%...who knows, the customer gets to live in the 5th level of ****? But it seems ridiculous. Then again, if it was 15% a few yrs ago, why won't it be 25% sometime in the future? Maybe someday the tip will be equal to the bill!
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:02 PM   #48
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I have read this thread with much interest. Real estate agents get a % of the selling price, as the housing price goes up, so do the %ages. Every person in this country gets paid a minimum wage. Any tipping is considered icing. We don't tip the pharmacy assistant, the dr. the nurse. We don't tip the plumber or the electrician. Why the waiter? S/he is already paid a wage. Some of the hotel or restaurants include a service charge as a separate item, I will not pay it. If the service has been superior I might leave some money, but not 20%. I consider it a distortion of meal cost. And others are right, why not 100%. Why not really fleece the customer. Goodness, why not leave 200%. I think tipping should be very much to the customers discretion, and if the waiters want more they should seek better paid employment. However, if the waiter proves to be a delightful addition to the meal I will leave a gratuity.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #49
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To Insure Prompt(proper) Service......that is what tips really was based on.
If you've ever worked in the food service industry, you will know that most
waiters make a very small base pay. Their pay is based greatly on the tips
they make. After they clock out, they usually pay out to the bartenders, the busboys and sometimes the kitchen.

Keep this in mind when you are eating out. Those waiters put up with a lot
of attitude from rude customers (and I'm not saying waiters are perfect by-
any means).

I tip based on how good my service was and how attentive my server was.
The better they make my experience, the better their tip will be. That's just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Hungry
To Insure Prompt(proper) Service......that is what tips really was based on.
This is actually just an urban legend. See here for more info.

If it really was for this then the tip would be given before the meal, not after so tipping after can not ensure anything for that current meal.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:19 PM   #51
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Hey Ellen, but aren't those real estate agents at a fixed % that does NOT change during the yrs? Let's say they make 3%, isn't that about what they made, say, five yrs ago? Yes, if the market goes up they get more but the % itself is the same, 3% (or whatever).

Yet the % a server gets goes up as yrs pass as well as the price of the food. I'm certainly not moaning b/c I worship a good server who makes my experience enjoyable. I just want to understand the economic drive behind it.

Dig this future scenario: your tab is $50 and the expected tip is $200.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:05 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
...Every person in this country gets paid a minimum wage...
Yes, but not everyone gets the same minimum. Some professions and businesses are exempted from minimum wage laws.

Regarding the Federal Minimum Wage:

What is the minimum wage for workers who receive tips?
An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm


It's is inappropriate to equate a waiter's situation with those of a pharmacy assistant, doctor or nurse who are not tipped. Custom has created this situation where waiters are paid a minimal amount and make the majority of their income from tips, and eating out is your acceptance of it.

If restaurateurs were required to pay a living wage to their staff, eliminating tipping, meal prices would increase more than 15%-20% because an employer also has to pay payroll taxes, federal and state unemployment taxes and, typically, other benefits.

In addition, many waiters would be up in arms because they make more under the current system than they would as an untipped employee. (I realize that many are not in this situation as well).

I like to eat out. As a result, I have accepted that tipping is part of the cost of the meal just as the meal tax food and drink costs. I'm not suggesting tipping should be mindless. If service is bad the tip should reflect it.
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:51 PM   #53
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I had a horrible experience in Swiss Chalet on at least 2 seperate occasions! Both times the food was undercooked and this was dangerous as well as unappetizing. It was chicken and this was very unprofessional and terrible!
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmalady
Isn't it frustrating? I will say, however, that the waiter usually doesn't have control over comping, or adjusting your price; that's up to the hostess or manager.
Since when does a hostess (the person who seats you) have control over comping a meal?
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:08 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen
I have read this thread with much interest. Real estate agents get a % of the selling price, as the housing price goes up, so do the %ages. Every person in this country gets paid a minimum wage. Any tipping is considered icing. We don't tip the pharmacy assistant, the dr. the nurse. We don't tip the plumber or the electrician. Why the waiter? S/he is already paid a wage. Some of the hotel or restaurants include a service charge as a separate item, I will not pay it. If the service has been superior I might leave some money, but not 20%. I consider it a distortion of meal cost. And others are right, why not 100%. Why not really fleece the customer. Goodness, why not leave 200%. I think tipping should be very much to the customers discretion, and if the waiters want more they should seek better paid employment. However, if the waiter proves to be a delightful addition to the meal I will leave a gratuity.
when I've left a less than stellar tip, I'v had the waiter come outside, and yell at me as I'm getting in my car, "thanks, thanks a lot!">>>now that is wrong.........no one knows another persons financial status and these bus drivers that say over and over again, "it's okay to tip the driver, it's okay to tip the driver , it's okay to tip the driver"..................wrong wrong wrong
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Old 10-14-2006, 04:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB
Yeah around here 20% is the norm (at least with the people I know), and actually it is even usually a little high than that because people often round up to the nearest dollar. I actually can not remember the last time (other than this experience) when I left less than 20%. I am seriously rethinking that practice though based on this thread. I now feel that I should have left 10% or so for this particular waiter.
GB, the only time we tip 20% is when we're at a better than average restaurant; if we're at a chain, or little local pub, we do 15%.
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Old 10-14-2006, 05:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FraidKnot
Since when does a hostess (the person who seats you) have control over comping a meal?
Depends on the restaurant, and the way the management team is set up. At some places I've worked, the host/hostess is actually one of the front end managers - funny how folks work a little cleaner when there's a boss on the floor!

One reason why perhaps (I'm just playing devil's advocate here) tips have increased goes to one of my former posts; it used to be that waitresses did everything, from taking the order to bringing the food to busing the table. Then, if I remember correctly, you started seeing more and more buspersons, 'servers', and go-fers; each of whom get a cut of the tip. Whereas, when I did all the work, I earned that tip and didnt' have to split it with anyone! I even worked one kitchen where the tips were split with the chef and the line!!!
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Old 10-15-2006, 07:13 AM   #58
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Tip experience

I once worked at a restaurant, and when I started there I wondered why not everybody would work at that restaurant, so good was the money we earned! Pay per hour was 8 US dollar, plus each of us got all the tip for ourselves. At the restaurant people did not tip alot, ca 1 doller a table (4 %), but there were great many tables, and we all had 30-50 tables a day. Every day I went home with 30 to 50 US dollars in tip.
The monthly income was huge, but despite this, people just did not want to work there. They all quit, one after the other, and me too in the end. The reason was the boss (off course, what else is new?). Take a really spoiled, and stupid 3 year old, give him a grown up body, and there you have this boss. He just kept nagging out everyones ears, to we all allmost went crazy . Money and tip is not everything, it is not so important for the waiter to get a good tip, if the workingcondisions is good. Now I dont work in restaurants anymore, but I still get a tip once in a while, and in the end of the day I can affortd a soda for my tip. I dont miss the huge tip, and I certanly dont miss my former boss
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Old 10-15-2006, 01:05 PM   #59
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A party of 5 of us went to a local restaurant. When we arrived I introduced myself to the manager (a greasy haired slob) and told him that we were a group from a local marina and we were planning on making a "dinner out" at his place once a month (at least).

We were seated in the center of the dining room, the waiter explained the specials and their prices. He disappeared for quite a while before he came back & took our drink orders (1 bottle of cab, 1 glass of chard., and a beer). He handled that well and took our dinner orders - no "would you like an appetizer before your dinner?".

2 in our party ordered the "surf & turf special" an 8 oz sirloin steak (1 med. & 1 rare) and fried shrimp. 1 ordered fajitas, and 2 ordered prime rib, both rare. The salads arrived - 1 slice of tomato (cut in half), 1 slice of cucumber, and 2 small red onion rings, and boxed croutons on iceberg lettuce (the pale white parts). They brought whipped margarine and some brown and serve bread that hadn't been browned.

The dinners began to arrive - my prime rib was not rare, but barely warm. The veg was the usual mix - parts over cooked but all in all cold. I ordered mashed potatoes because he wasn't sure if they had any bakers left. They were warm, and there was a tablespoon of cream gravy on top.

DH's prime was cooked to the same degree as mine. His veg. was cold too and the meat sauce on his pasta was burnt. A good third of his prime was one huge chunk of fat!!!

The fajitas arrived next, the meat was hot and the peppers and onions were cold. The rice was dried out, hard, and cold. The "special" surf and turf arrived. One steak was well done, the other was medium. Susan sent had cut her steak in half and when she sent it back it came back in two pieces moments later as "fixed". Same steak. Our waiter was busy, so we asked to see the manager - which got us a waitress who claimed to be the manager. She took the plate back to the kitchen, and Bill's plate. She brought Susan a new steak, also cut in half - so the cook could tell if it was done enough!!!!! Bill got a half a steak.

The excuses at the end of the meal were - we ran out of the special so we had to cook the steaks from frozen. There was no excuse for the rest of it. The manager talked to us giving us the "we were in the trenches". I told him that you didn't cut a steak in half to see if it was done - it should be time and touch for a good cook. He also told us that he was "trying" to give Bill and Susan New Yorks - TRYING???? He said he would see what he could do, maybe comp part of the meal. By now the rest of the staff is running around busily - being sure to not even look at our table. We were left to sit for 20 minutes with no hint of what was going to happen. We finally got our waiter's attention - he apologized profusely and we told him we knew it wasn't his fault, he told us that the bill was taken care of. We gave him 19.00 - it wasn't his fault that the food was crap. All I know is that it will be a long time before we go back, if ever.

I was so ticked. One of our party was sick to his stomach after we got home to the marina. The utter and complete lack of concern was really unbelieveable.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:16 AM   #60
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I am amazed you tipped ANYTHING at all
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