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Old 04-13-2007, 07:23 AM   #41
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I'm well aware of that, but to me, it's like cutting corners and impairing the quality that we used to get in certain foods.

And yes, they might not be in it for our health, but they're SUPPOSED to!
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Old 04-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey123
.....
And yes, they might not be in it for our health, but they're SUPPOSED to!
Believeing that will get you a lot of disappointment. They are there to sell a product and make as much profit as possible. Even in health industries profit rules, and I'm afraid the food industry is not health industry, but just a food supplying one. The responsibilty for what we eat for HEALTH is ours. Its one of the reasons I prefer to cook from scratch...because I decide what I use to get a same/similar product. If you are looking to the food industry to make health choices for you you will not suceed. All they have to do is not put things in there products that in moderation won't harm us.

Perhaps this is a common misconception and is contributory to the obesity and related illnesses problems? I had not appreciated that some people really believed the food industry were, in Corey's words, supposed to be in it for our health.
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Old 04-13-2007, 08:08 AM   #43
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Well said, Lulu. I agree.
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Old 04-13-2007, 08:36 AM   #44
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I agree but... I've seen products labelled "contains no sugar" and then you look at the ingredients and they've got corn syrup in. People are being misled by the suggestion that such products are healthier when in fact they're not.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:07 AM   #45
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This is the myth of food labeling, and I agree that is misleading, and I think wrong, and I presume Snoop, by healthier you mean lower in calories ;) because otherwise we have to consider the reports on sweeteners etc. (I know thats a different can of worms, lol). Its also the use of the word sugar that worries me. The thing is, we have to come to terms with the fact that syrup/fructose/glucose/sucrose.....they are essentially sweet simple SUGARS (some one more chemistry minded can correct me on that..) and they are all going to have calories and in excess lead to weight gain. It seems to me that instead of developing a tolerance to having less sugar in the diet and in the body at any one time people are looking for the impossible. I don't think sugar is bad, I really don't, I like the stuff, but I know the more I have the more my body "needs" and demands..the less I have the less I get the "sugar shakes" and the better my body functions. I know, if I'm honest, that this happens if I have a commercial candy bar/cereal whatever or a homemade piece of cake. The difference is I KNOW I understand and I have taken responsibilty for what I put in the home made piece of cake. Furthermore, the satisfaction of spending some time baking etc, not only burns a few more of those excess calories than opening a packet, but prolongs the experience and turns it into a rewarding eating one, rather than a rather perfunctory exercise in obtaining something sweet. Same with home made juice rather than bought stuff: its all sugar in a glass, but if I'm going to have it I'll have that liquid sugar fresh please. This is the mind game I play with my self to endulge the gourmet (ok then, gourmand) in me while trying also to eat for health. If I pay any company for my kicks I KNOW they are looking out for profit and not my health. Its the quote I highlighted previously that I found so sadly worrying. No one apart from us and our mother's really cares about our health, lol.

The truth of the matter is, if it tastes sweet something made it that way. The other truth is its our body and our responsibility, if we are expecting the food industry to do that we will be diappointed every time.
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoop Puss
This is what the Mayo Clinic has to say:

"In addition, animal studies have shown a link between increased consumption of high-fructose corn syrup and adverse health effects, such as diabetes and high cholesterol. However, the evidence is not as clear in human studies."
They pretty much said a lot of nothing. In fact it reminded me of a political speech, meant not to inform as much as to not offend anyone. But, what bothers be most about their attitude, especially the part quoted above is, who in their right mind is going to volunteer for a study of the adverse effects of HFCS on humans? Please raise your hands!

Therfore, I stand firm on my previous statement, and the article I quoted, that HFCS is NOT treated like sugar by the human body, that it does not cause the pancreas to release insulin, and that it is stored as fat.

If you have any doubts whatsoever, just take a look at your local four-Cokes-a-day man. Sorry. Make that four-Cokes-a-day PERSON!
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoop Puss
I agree but... I've seen products labelled "contains no sugar" and then you look at the ingredients and they've got corn syrup in. People are being misled by the suggestion that such products are healthier when in fact they're not.
Did you read my previous post about the Mrs. Smith's pies and transfats? They got around the transfats quanity issue by increasing the number of servings per pie from 6 to 12! I would like to see someone cut a 9-inch round pie into 12 pieces, then remove one slice for serving!
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:54 PM   #48
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In the past, I was not making my own pie crust, but I think I'll start. Who knows what's in the frozen crusts!!
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:48 PM   #49
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The best pie crusts are made with lard. Lard is not good for you. The second best pie crusts are made with butter. Butter isn't all that good for you either.

The pie crust on that Mrs. Smith pie I was taliking about was made with hydrogentated vegetable oil (shortening) and margarine, both of which are a LOT worse for you than either lard or butter.
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:51 PM   #50
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I was about to say that shortening isn't food either.

The three are supposed to make for a tender flakey crust, so what does one use, oil?

But then again, moderation is the key. It's not every day that I would eat pie.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:25 PM   #51
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Corey, take your pick. You have to use a solid fat to make a pie crust. I wouldn't forsee a major isue unless you eat them by the boatload daily.
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Old 04-14-2007, 04:13 AM   #52
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That's what I was thinking.
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Old 04-14-2007, 08:15 AM   #53
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Corey, when I made pie crusts I used lard or butter, which ever I had on hand. But I have made an effort to eliminate crusts from my pies, precisely to reduce the fat content in my diet. I simply make crustless pies, when I make them. I try to eat fresh fruit, instead of making deserts with fruit.

My DH has hypoglycemia and he says he feels better when he eats oatmeal for breakfast. It is cheap and nourishing. I buy oatmeal by the 50 pound bag at a health food store. For 50 pounds of organic oats, I pay $37.50, and that lasts us about 6 months. That comes out to $1.44 a week for our cereal cost. You could try an experiment, just change what you eat for breakfast to oats and see if that controls your unstable blood sugars any better.
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Old 04-14-2007, 10:04 AM   #54
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I DO eat oatmeal for breakfast. In fact, I'm gonna make some right now.

I also wrote a thread here on how oatmeal can help reduce bad cholesterol.
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Old 04-14-2007, 10:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey123
It's not every day that I would eat pie.
I would, but it would have to be cut into 12 pieces!
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:16 AM   #56
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Do you think I just make this stuff up?
Not intentionally ... however the bug up my hiney is "selective" reporting ... aka: not reporting all of the facts. While your "excepts" from the Washington Post article writen by Sally Squires, a "staff writer" (not a medical or scientific writer) supported YOUR anti-sugar agenda ... it did not reflect either the entirety of the article nor all of the research. For those wanting to read the entire article, not just selected excerpts, it can be found here.

The media, and some "so called" nutritionists, have done a great job of misdirecting or distracting prople ... they hear the word fructose and think it means "high fructose corn syrup" because that is what the media has conditioned them to believe. The fact is - this is sooo bogus, and detracts from the real problem!!!

The truth is (in short) - corn syrup (glucose) is hydrolized from corn starch ... if you then process it to convert part of the glucose to furctose you have High-Fructose Corn Syrup - a term used to differentiate it from regular corn syrup which doesn't contain fructose. Generally, it's about 45% glucose and 55% fructose. Table sugar, sucose, is 50% glucose and 50% fructose.

Grab an orange ... IF it had a label on it ... breaking down the "types of sugar" it contains .. it would show about 50% Sucrose, 25% glucose, and 25% Fructose.

Even before HFCS - we were using invet sugars in baking and confections for their properties ... made from breaking down sucrose into glucose and fructose.

Is fructose metabolized differently than glucose? Probably, according to some research. Is HFCS a greater threat than sucrose? Probably only to the Sugar Cane Producers - there is credible research that shows it's no more harmful than table sugar.

Are we consuming too much sugar? I'll agree with that - if you're honet about it and don't try to put all the blame on HFCS ... this is getting to be a problem even in EU countries that don't have HFCS.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:12 PM   #57
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This particular article is not the only place I have seen HFCS accused of not stimulating insulin release. I have seen several articles, including THIS ONE and THIS ONE that have come to the same conclusion.

When several, unrelated, people report the same information, quoting different medical studies, I tend to believe what they're concluding. Like I said, I don't make this stuff up. As a personal trainer, senior fitness instructor, and nutritionist, I always make sure my ducks are all in a row.

BTW, the first article was written by Susan M. Kleiner, PhD, R.D., who is one of the foremost nutrition authorities on eating for strength. She don't make this stuff up, either.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:46 PM   #58
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OK, I've read the articles and IMO it seems that consumers just need to be aware and educated. Caine, Michael is a proponent of having ALL the information, not just pieces of it. In this particular case I would have to agree. Lets be honest here, the chemistry is important, but using your brain is really the key to good health and nutrition. No one who uses their brain is going to consume a "a six-pack of Mountain Dew or eat a half gallon of frozen yogurt" and not guess that they might gain some weight from it regardless of whether there is a chemical trigger to cease consuming calories.

You both have good points and you both have correct points. Caine, your point about HFCS not stimulating an insulin response is correct. However Michael's point about it being metabolized differently in the body is also correct. Nothing can enter your body and not be processed in one way or another.

The point of the original question was essentially "is HFCS bad for you" the short answer is "yes". Any dietician will tell you though that you can consume HFCS if you modify the rest of your intake on any given day. If I want to have a can of Coke, I just need to make sure I account for that in my daily caloric intake and exercise regimen.
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:57 PM   #59
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I absolutely agrre with what Michael and Alix are saying BUT, and its a big but, to pick up on ALix's point, and repeat a point I have made in similar threads, it seems that despite most of us knowing "a six pack of Mountain Dew or ...a half gallon of froxen yoghurt" we are seeing time and time again people who care about food making bad choices, and seemingly, if what they say in fora such as this, they are so confused they DON"T understand that this comes down to ;if its sweet it got that way some how and it has repurcusions somewhere! I am repeating this point because it is important: if people who care enough about what they eat to be members of fora on cooking/eating are making bad choices unknowingly, what are the people trying to shop and feed themselves/a family with NO interest, no research and no knowledge doing? Its not up to the food industry to make these choises for us, but I think we have to stand up and say you can't eat hundreds of sweet/fat heavy foods because they say "sugar free/fat free" and not expect to have ramifications!

ETA I think that the only point I'm picking up in Alix's post is that whee as she is able to make these sensible and necessary decisions others do not sem so able, this concerns with me. I did not what to leave unedited as it reads like I'm disagreeing with her in someway, where as I actually think its a great post!
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:26 PM   #60
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Here's what the ADA (American Dietetic Association) has to say:

http://www.eatright.org/ada/files/FRUCTOSE.pdf
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