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Old 07-18-2007, 01:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapgirl
Here's what the ADA (American Dietetic Association) has to say:

http://www.eatright.org/ada/files/FRUCTOSE.pdf
No. this article is about Fructose, and not High Fructose Corn Syrup. They are not the same.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:39 PM   #62
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Quote:
No. this article is about Fructose, and not High Fructose Corn Syrup. They are not the same.
Read about halfway through the article until you get to the section on the safety of fructose; it discusses HFCS.

Here it is copied:
Is fructose safe?
The safety of fructose, both crystalline fructose
and high-fructose corn syrup, has been thoroughly
and consistently documented in authoritative
scientific reviews conducted over the past 25 years.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
concluded, “High fructose [corn] syrup is as safe
for use in food as sucrose, corn sugar, corn syrup
and invert sugar.” An International Life Sciences
Institute (ILSI) Expert Panel concluded, “Fructose
is a valuable, traditional source of food energy, and
there is no basis for recommending increases or
decreases in its use in the general food supply or in
special dietary use products.”
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:48 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapgirl
Read about halfway through the article until you get to the section on the safety of fructose; it discusses HFCS.

Here it is copied:



Is fructose safe?






The safety of fructose, both crystalline fructose



and high-fructose corn syrup, has been thoroughly
and consistently documented in authoritative
scientific reviews conducted over the past 25 years.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
concluded, “High fructose [corn] syrup is as safe
for use in food as sucrose, corn sugar, corn syrup
and invert sugar.” An International Life Sciences
Institute (ILSI) Expert Panel concluded, “Fructose
is a valuable, traditional source of food energy, and
there is no basis for recommending increases or
decreases in its use in the general food supply or in
special dietary use products.”
If you believe that, I have a bridge I will sell you! There are lots of independent groups, including AARP and Center for Science in the Public Interest, that have uncovered terrible consequences of ingesting HFCS.

YOU go ahead and eat that stuff if you want to, at your own risk. It has been proven to be one of the causes of childhood obesity in this country, and a major problem re: Type 2 Diabetes.

But if the government says its okay, I guess so and we are also winning the war in Iraq. NOT!

Oh, and thank you for printing that in Bold and huge font. I can read very well. I have been studying this problem for years. and it HAS been a problem for years.

Sorry Mods... if you consider this a detrimental rant, I'll understand if you have to delete it. But if you do, please also remove that screaming post just above it.

Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:12 PM   #64
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I don’t think soapgirl posted that as a screaming bit of text....I’m pretty sure it was just a cut-n-paste thing. It happens to me all the time when I type a post offline in Word and then post it here. Formatting gets fried, so occasionally, I’ll use Notepad (which ignores formatting) to defeat any weird formatting issue with a cut-n-paste. Or, just do it the old fashioned way and use the font adjuster in the advanced posting option here at DC.

Anywho, here is a direct cut-n-paste from the PDF that soapgirl pasted from. I didn’t change the font at all, and see how it comes out:





Is fructose safe?
The safety of fructose, both crystalline fructose


Yep, it’s big.......it has something to do with translating a cut-n-paste to the Verdana font and font sizes that the DC board uses
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:18 PM   #65
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Quote:
Oh, and thank you for printing that in Bold and huge font. I can read very well. I have been studying this problem for years. and it HAS been a problem for years.
I am sincerely sorry if you found the size of the quote offensive. I was not implying anything; it is exactly how I cut and pasted it from the ADA site.

I belive that the ADA is a credible source of information (and I do admit bias, as I am about to become an RD soon). They didn't base their position on HFCS solely on FDA's statements, but on peer-reviewed journal articles and other studies.

Based on personal experience, and monthly visits to a registered dietician/ diabetes educator (I have type 1), my RD recommends avoiding foods with refined sugars and HFCS, but not because it is poison, because the foods are generally highly processed and of little nutritional value. That would be sensible advice for anyone; however, I do think that HFCS and white sugar have been demonized. Inclusion of HFCS in moderation, in an otherwise balanced and healthy diet is not especially problematic.

The problem with most of the HFCS foods is that they are highly processed and devoid of fiber and essential nutrients and tend to be high calorie or high fat foods (sugar cereals, pastries, fruit drinks). Certainly a diet consisting of those types of foods on a regular basis is not healthy for anyone and I would not advise it.

What I do oppose is the tendency to dichotomize foods into good/evil categories. Anyting eaten in excess can be problematic. Most foods consumed in moderation are perfectly fine.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:20 PM   #66
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Okay, here I am psoting a link to a site that lists common foods made with HFCS:


Accidental Hedonist - Foods and Products Containing High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS)

Most of the foods on the lists are pop-tarts, cookies, candy, ice cream, and crackers. Maybe it is the foods we are consuming and not the HFCS? Just a thought. I doubt that all of these foods made with refined sugar, honey, or any other sweetener would be health foods. And, is a pop-tart really a food, anyway?

I also wanted to add that I am new here and don't want to come off as rude or snide to anyone (screaming font), but I am very interested in foods and the obesity/diabetes epidemic. I think it would be fair to say that 90% of the foods on that list are so processed they are not even real foods anymore and should be avoided. They have no nutritional value and are high calorie/fat items; however, an occasional treat should not be denied because of the presence of HFCS. The value of the food as a whole needs to be considered and these foods have no place as the dietary staples of some of our youth.

Additionally, here is an article, written by a member of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, that supports my theory that it is the increased consumption of soft drinks, regardless of sweeteners that are to blame for the rise in obesity.
High-fructose corn syrup and the obesity epidemic -- Jacobson 80 (4): 1081 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Furthermore, I searched the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition for studies relating to HFCS. Nutritional analysis reveals that HFCS has roughly a 50/50 ratio of fructorse to glucose, the same as sucrose (table sugar). Studies revealed mixed results of the influence of high fructose consumption in subjects. One study even revealed that a high fructose diet improved glucose tolerance in diabetics. There were indications that fructose raised levels of certian triaglycerols in the blood of humans, and that in rats, combined with a high-fat diet, copper deficiency resulted. None of the studies I found had more than 25 subjects and no correlation between copper deficiency and fructose was found in humans.

Basically, there is no hard and fast research that would define HFCS in itself to be detrimental to the human diet; it is a calorically dense product and the addition of HFCS to foods and soft drinks leads to overconsumption of calories as a whole.

A quote from another AJCN article:
Quote:
calorically sweetened beverages may enhance caloric overconsumption. Thus, the increase in consumption of HFCS has a temporal relation to the epidemic of obesity, and the overconsumption of HFCS in calorically sweetened beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:58 PM   #67
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Quote:
Inclusion of HFCS in moderation, in an otherwise balanced and healthy diet is not especially problematic.
and therein lies one of the major problems with HFCS.... it's in everything, from frozen dinners, to popcorn, to spaghetti sauce, to mayonnaise, to soups, to yogurt, to..... I could go on for hours. It's in literally every prepared food. One has to read ingredient lists assiduously in order to avoid it, and it is very difficult to..

There's a tablespoon of corn syrup in every tablespoon of Ketchup! Almost every American I know eats lots of Heinz Ketchup!

Just one example other than soda....
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:48 AM   #68
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From CSPI:
Quote:
Though not any better or worse nutritionally than plain table sugar, high fructose corn syrup is spawned from a complex, multistep industrial process by which starch is extracted from corn and converted with acids or enzymes into glucose and fructose.
From what I gathered on the website, CSPI is primarily against HFCS because it is made from GMO corn and manufactured using GM bacteria(biotechnology), not for nutritional reasons; however, it may be a consideration for environmentally conscious consumers.

Quote:
There's a tablespoon of corn syrup in every tablespoon of Ketchup! Almost every American I know eats lots of Heinz Ketchup!
Maybe it's not the ketchup that is the problem? What if it is the foods we eat with the ketchup?
- burgers
- fries
- hot dogs

Quote:
and therein lies one of the major problems with HFCS.... it's in everything, from frozen dinners, to popcorn, to spaghetti sauce, to mayonnaise, to soups, to yogurt, to..... I could go on for hours. It's in literally every prepared food. One has to read ingredient lists assiduously in order to avoid it, and it is very difficult to..
Take HFCS out of packaged foods and they are for the most part, still unhealthy foods. In the list I posted previously of the common foods containing HFCS, few of them would be of any nutritional value if the HFCS were removed. These processed foods would still be loaded with sodium, fats, and preservatives.

The whole point I am trying to make is that society shouldn't take 1 ingredient and demonize it as the cause for obesity and disease. A more common sense approach would be for Americans to reduce the amounts of processed foods, fast foods, and high calorie drinks from their diets.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapgirl
The whole point I am trying to make is that society shouldn't take 1 ingredient and demonize it as the cause for obesity and disease.
Then please expalin why the obesity rate in the United States has risen expotentially, and the dramatic increase in the accompanying diseases such as heart disease, type II diabetes, and hypertension, correlates with the advent of HFCS replacing sugar in most commercial products.

HFCS is so bad for you that the U.S. Food & Drug Administration won't even establish a maximum allowable consumption quantity for it.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:51 PM   #70
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Um Caine? I think there are MANY reasons to explain this other than HFCS:

Quote:
Then please expalin why the obesity rate in the United States has risen expotentially, and the dramatic increase in the accompanying diseases such as heart disease, type II diabetes, and hypertension, correlates with the advent of HFCS replacing sugar in most commercial products.


I could start commenting on societal changes and how kids are less active, video games, urban vs rural demographics, I could even point to a CHAIR LIFT in a water park in Florida so folks wouldn't need to climb all those stairs and get tired out before going down a water slide. The obesity rate cannot be blamed solely on HFCS. It may be a contributing factor in some cases, but you can't demonize (nice term soapgirl, tx) it as being the lone factor.

Caine, your passion for health comes through very clearly.

Soapgirl, please don't feel hammered here. Your contribution is very welcome.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:59 PM   #71
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Human beings get fat because they eat more calories than they need. It's a matter of personal responsibility.

You can blame certain foods, or TV ads or whatever else as the bad guy of the day. But, unless someone is standing next to you with a gun to your head, YOU are making the decision to put food into your mouth. I'm talking about adults here. Those same adults overfeed their kids, creating a future generation of fat people.

P.S. Been overweight for a long time because I love to eat.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:50 PM   #72
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Then please expalin why the obesity rate in the United States has risen expotentially, and the dramatic increase in the accompanying diseases such as heart disease, type II diabetes, and hypertension, correlates with the advent of HFCS replacing sugar in most commercial products.
So, if we took all the products that currently are sweetened with HFCS and substituted sucrose, our foods would suddenly be healthier? NOT meant sarcastically, but I don't think so.

It's because we (Americans, not the people on this board) have drastically increased our consumption of packaged foods, fast foods, and sodas, while decreasing activity.

I found an article pertaining to this in the Journal of Clinical Nutrition, regarding soads sweetened with sucrose or HFSC. The resulst was that both sodas were metabolized the same way, with sucrose breaking down into 50/50 frucose and glucose, with HFCS also being broken down into 50/50 frutose and glucose. The conclusion is that both proucts metabolized the same way and had the same effect on both blood glucose and satiety.

There exists an abudance or research data the documents the trends of increasing soda consumption and larger product sizes in everything from packaged foods to restaurant foods. If sodas were still sweetened with sucrose (white sugar) vs HFCS, increased intake alone would result in the overconsumption of calories and the consequences we are seeing today. Simply put, we are eating too many calories (mostly in the form of junky take-out and boxed foods).

Probably, most of you have seen "Supersize Me" or read "Fast Food Nation". Both of these books explore today's dining and shopping trends in the context of the current obesity and diabetes epidemics. To say that HFCS is the main cause of these epidemics is a vast oversimplification of the dynamics involved in the American food system, and ignoring the decline in physical activity.

Quote:
Soapgirl, please don't feel hammered here. Your contribution is very welcome.
Thanks! I really like some of the discussions here on this board. I am a college student, and I just wrapped up an education class last semester where I was out in the schools teaching about health and nutrition as it relates to childhood obesity and disease prevention (16-18 year olds). I was appaled that most of them arrived at the class, which was right after lunch hour, fresh from fast-food binges, and toting 1 liter Mountain Dews.

One day, I did a survey with the kids about fast foods and sodas. Most kids ate fast food EVERY DAY they went to school, because brown bagging it and school lunch are uncool and gross. They reported drinking anywhere from 3-8 sodas a day, size unspecified. Wow! I don't think these kids have to worry about the HFCS in they ketchup and taco sauce the are eating, it is all of the Mc Donald's, Hardee's, and Taco Bell that goes with it.

Finally, most of these kids go home and rarely get a true, healthy, home-cooked meal. It is either something out of a box or off to dine out at another restaurant.

With lifestyles like this, removing HFCS from foods and substituing another sweetener, would not have much of an impact.

Quote:
Caine, your passion for health comes through very clearly.
I have noticed that most people on the board have a profound passion for good food and health. Thank you for welcoming me to the discussion.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:25 AM   #73
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Oh, good greif. We get fat because we eat more than we exercise. Simple. Believe me, I know, I've been overweight most of my life (not life-threatening, none of my docs have told me to lose weight, even though I'm about 30 lbs over by the best estimates. I'm quite tall, and workout a lot, but am honest with myself. I weigh too much). No one ingredient does it. Do you eat chips when an apple would do it? Do you eat candy when an orange might work? As I said, I know. I think we all know, or we wouldn't subscribe to this web site.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapgirl
So, if we took all the products that currently are sweetened with HFCS and substituted sucrose, our foods would suddenly be healthier? NOT meant sarcastically, but I don't think so.
Actually, yes, you would be healthier, because when you ingest succrose, your body knows exactly what to do with it. Your pancreas releases insulin, which is like providing a key to unlock your cells so that they can utilize the sugar, and either use it immediately for energy, or, if no energy is needed (that is where the exercise part comes in) stores it as fat. This has been proven to NOT be the case with HFCS! Your body seems to think it's a fat, not a sugar so, your pancreas does NOT release insulin, it is never absorbed by your cells for use as energy, and your body just stores it as fat. Now, you're going to have to work twice as hard (there's the exercise part again!) to burn off all that extra fat you have stored due to ingesting HFCS.

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Old 07-20-2007, 03:04 PM   #75
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Not that it is anything new, but some more about HFCS

Log In Problems


Fructose but Not Glucose Consumption Linked to Atherogenic Lipid Profile

Emma Hitt, PhD
Information from Industry
Reduce risk factors for CVD and T2DM Visit the cardiometabolic condition site and review a range of data and approaches to reducing the threat of cardiovascular disease, including a newly discovered physiologic system, a group of modifiable risk factors, and much more.


July 5, 2007 — Fructose, a sugar used for sweetening most soft drinks in the United States and elsewhere, has been linked to an increased atherogenic profile relative to glucose in a short-term study of overweight/obese adults.

Peter J. Havel, DVM, PhD, a research professor from the Department of Nutrition at the University of California, Davis, and colleagues presented the findings at the American Diabetes Association 67th Scientific Sessions in Chicago, Illinois.

"Soft drink consumption is, for most people, the largest source of dietary fructose," Dr. Havel told Medscape. "Of course, fructose is present in fruit too, but at much lower levels, and...fruit contains many other nutrients."

Dr. Havel and colleagues studied 23 subjects with a body mass index of 23 to 35 kg/m2. In the beginning of the study, participants stayed in a clinical facility for 2 weeks while consuming an energy-balanced diet containing a moderate (30%) level of fat and 55% complex carbohydrates. Baseline blood measurements were made.

Subjects then began an 8-week outpatient intervention, consuming drinks that made up 25% of their daily energy needs. The drinks were sweetened with either fructose (n = 13) or glucose (n = 10). The rest of the participants' diet was self-selected.

At the end of the 8-week intervention, subjects returned to the clinical facility for 2 additional weeks and consumed either glucose- or fructose-sweetened beverages along with the same energy-balanced diet consumed during the first 2-week stay.

Relative to baseline, 24-hour postprandial triglyceride profiles were increased by 212% &#177; 59% in the fructose-consuming group (P < .0001). In contrast, levels declined by about one third (&#226;ˆ’30% &#177; 23%) in the glucose-consuming group. In addition, fasting plasma levels of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C); apolipoprotein B; and small, dense LDL-C, as well as postprandial levels of remnant lipoprotein (RLP)-triglycerides and RLP-cholesterol, were all significantly increased (P < .01) in the fructose group. By comparison, these levels remained unchanged in the glucose group.

Fructose-consuming participants also demonstrated increased plasma concentrations of the atherogenic risk factors oxidized LDL-C (P < .0001) and intracellular adhesion molecule (P < .05), but those consuming glucose did not.

"Consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages containing fructose has increased by 135% from 1977 to 2001 and may be a contributing factor to an increased incidence of metabolic syndrome," the authors note in their abstract.

According to Dr. Havel, most soft drinks in the United States are sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup, which is a mixture of about 55% fructose and 45% glucose.

"It is known that fructose, after being metabolized by the liver, is more likely to go into a lipogenic pathway than glucose," Dr. Havel noted. "So these results were not surprising to us, but the magnitude of some of the changes was striking," he added.

"While this is an interim report, the findings do suggest that persons at risk for cardiovascular disease, diabetes, or hyperlipidemia should limit consumption of fructose-sweetened beverages. It is unclear, however, whether a nonatherogenic level of fructose consumption exists, and what that might be."

According to Amy Hess-Fischl, MS, RD, LDN, BC-ADM, CDE, diabetes educator/coordinator from the Adolescent and Teen Diabetes Program, University of Chicago Comprehensive Diabetes Center, Chicago, Illinois, who moderated the session at the meeting, although this study was conducted in overweight and obese individuals, other studies indicate that the atherogenic effect of fructose may extend to normal-weight individuals as well.

However, Ms. Fischl told Medscape that controversy exists over the extent of atherogenicity associated with fructose consumption: "On the basis of these findings, fructose consumed at 25% of total energy had a negative effect, while another study found that 17% of total energy had a negative impact."

"Finding the safe limit will be key, and more research is needed to identify those persons most at risk," noted Ms. Fischl. "Until then, healthcare professionals can recommend that, based on several studies, limiting consumption of fructose-containing beverages is probably beneficial."

American Diabetes Association 67th Scientific Sessions: Abstract 0062-OR. Presented June 23, 2007.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:45 PM   #76
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Quote:
Fructose but Not Glucose Consumption Linked to Atherogenic Lipid Profile
Thanks for posting that study!

I can't imagine someone drinking enough soda that 17-25% of their daily energy intake would be fructose!
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Old 07-20-2007, 06:53 PM   #77
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Fructose also makes you hungry(er) than if you had not consumed it. I used to be hooked on energy drinks and found the ones containing high fructose corn syrup increased my appetite whereas the sugarless ones did not.

My father is a wise man and knows a thing or two about good health, and claims "high fructose corn syrup is the devil".
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Old 07-21-2007, 06:40 AM   #78
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Fructose at least in the form of fruit should not make you hungrier. It refills liver glycogen, which causes a full feeling.
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Old 07-21-2007, 04:33 PM   #79
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i should have clarified, rather than Fructose i meant High Fructose Corn Syrup, which is high in sugar and calories in comparsion to its weight and capacity to fill ones stomach. Fructose naturally occuring in fruit is definately healthier and more filling.
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