Is my meat safe to cook?

[GB]

Never never never use warm water. The water you use really should be 39 degrees F of colder otherwise the surface of the food will be in the danger zone and it is the perfect environment to grow nasties.

 

[pacanis]

I'll have to remember the cold water thing. I'd only ever used that for thawing sea food.
I regularly thaw my steaks on one of those aluminum plates, turning it over and moving it to another spot on the plate. Never tried it with burger or pork and I never use the microwave to thaw anything because it always looks partially cooked no matter what the settings are on.

My question is, and this is off the actual topic, but falls under the subject line;
Is it OK to eat cooked meat that has sat out all night?
Whenever I cook pork chops (in particular) I like to make a plate for lunch the next day with the leftovers. More than once I've set a chop or two on a plate to cool down before covering with plastic wrap and refridgerating and forgotten them for several hours or even until the next morning. I usually eat around 9 at night, so we're talking 8-9 hours cooling off to room temp if forgotten until morning. Seems like I remember picnics when I was a kid where the chicken, meats and other foods were always air temp. We would take short day trips and eat when we got there. I don't remember any coolers with ice.
Look at the pig roasts where people are still munching on the pork sitting on the table into the wee hours.... not that I would know anything about that

Is there a definite difference or does it fall under, "When in doubt...."?

Thanks

 

[GB]

I regularly thaw my steaks on one of those aluminum plates, turning it over and moving it to another spot on the plate.

This is OK to do as long as it is not longer than 2 hours.

Is it OK to eat cooked meat that has sat out all night?

No this is just as bad as if the food was raw. When meat is in the danger zone (40-140 degrees F) for more than two hours then the nasties love it and multiply like you would not believe. It does not matter if it is cooked or not.

 

[YT2095]

GB, does that apply to Pizza also?
I`ve often left pizza in the box over night and eaten it next day (even cold).

 

[Jovin]

Good question, Pacanis...

I'll be interested in hearing the feedback on that one too.

I don't know anyone who has used cold water to thaw meat, only warm, so I guess I'd better pass this advice on to others too. Thanks, GB.

 

[Jovin]

Well,

I guess by reading the info on some of these posts, alot of us should have either died or been sick along time ago. I truly would not be willing to bet that my Mom or Aunt would agree with the two hour thing of leaving meat out. I know they always, ALWAYS left turkeys out overnight to thaw out and such. My Mom thawed meat on the counter for all the years that I can remember. I don't remember anyone in the family ever having gotten sick on it either.

 

[GB]

I guess by reading the info on some of these posts, alot of us should have either died or been sick along time ago. I truly would not be willing to bet that my Mom or Aunt would agree with the two hour thing of leaving meat out. I know they always, ALWAYS left turkeys out overnight to thaw out and such. My Mom thawed meat on the counter for all the years that I can remember. I don't remember anyone in the family ever having gotten sick on it either.

And millions of other people would agree with them as well. I will go back to the seatbelt analogy though. You can live a lifetime without ever wearing your seatbelt. You can drive 200 miles a day and never have a problem. That does not mean that it is a safe thing to do though. The chances of getting sick from food left out may not be huge, but if you do get sick you will be wishing you could go back in time and take those simple precautions that would limit the possibility of you getting seriously sick.

As for the question about pizza, I believe it would still hold true (although I am not 100% sure). If it is a pepperoni pizza or sausage pizza then it definitely holds true because of the meat. I will admit to eating pizza that has been left out overnight on rare occasion. I do not always practice what I preach, but I try to.

 

[pacanis]

I take pepperoni, cut it up and put it in a glass in the cupboard to "season" it. Taking a few chunks when I want and eating them with bread. Learned that one from my dad. Come to think of it, the local store sells homemade pepperoni bread that you eat "as is" or warmed up a little. It comes in plastic bags with a label stating the day it wa made.

When I bought my old farmhouse there wasn't much of a cover on the well. I had the water tested and they told me it was OK for me, but not to let any young children or elderly people drink it. The woman I bought the house from was 85 and told me she always drank the water.... Still alive, too. She'd be about 91 now.

I understand the seatbelt analogy completely, but sometimes I think we can be too safe, too. Sort of like we are not supppopsed to leave hardboiled eggs sit out anymore, but how many places used to have them sitting on top of the counter and sell them room temp, or how many Easters did we just leave them in the basket and eat them with who knows what kind of dyes partly soaked into the white?

I can see why this is a tricky subject as there are so many ties from the past where some of these things weren't given a second thought.

 

[GB]

Come to think of it, the local store sells homemade pepperoni bread that you eat "as is" or warmed up a little. It comes in plastic bags with a label stating the day it was made.

If you read that package though you will see that it says to refrigerate after opening.

but sometimes I think we can be too safe

I respectfully disagree. Safety should be practiced to the maximum, especially when you are talking about life and death. These microbes can and do kill people.

I can guarantee that you would not think it is overkill if you ever got food poisoning. Every single person I know who has gotten really sick from food now takes every precaution they can to make absolutely sure that it will never again happen to them.

I can see what everyone on the "we have done it for years and never had a problem" side of the coin are saying, but for me there are many safe alternatives to leaving food out on the counter and most are as easy, if not easier.

If a restaurant ever left food out like that and served it then it would be shut down by the board of health. When it comes to food, I want to be on the safe side of things even if the chances of something bad happening are minimal. I have no desire to be on the toilet for 7 days and not be able to keep anything down. Just not worth it to me.

 

[VegasDramaQueen]

I have to go along with the school of thought that nine hours in a warm room is far too risky. You won't know if it's safe til you eat it, and then it's too late. If in doubt, throw it out. It's not worth the problems that could result.

 

[Andy M.]

Jovin:

If someone approached you on the street and offered to give you $3.00 (the cost of a pound of good ground beef) and told you all you had to do to get it was to feed some meat that was questionable in its safety to your family, would you do it?

 

[Marg]

Leaving meat out to defrost

I know this is a touchy subject for many of you, but I was raised on a farm in the years where we DID NOT have a fridge. My Mother had no choice but to leave frozen meat on the counter to thaw. A frozen 24 Lb turkey was always thawed on the counter and in all those years NO ONE EVER got food poisoning or got sick from the meat we ate.

On the other hand,about 15 years ago we attended a wedding reception in a 4 star hotel that served turkey as the meal and more than half of the guests got food poisioning due to the turkey not having been cooked properly.

I think, like with the rest of our new laws, common sense should be used. Many of us should have never lived this long. Gee I wonder how that happened???

 

[BreezyCooking]

I agree Marg.

I think what's MOST shamefull is the way our food is processed these days. Here we are supposed to have all sorts of modern technology, yet our food processing plants are hotbeds of disease & improper handling.

Current descriptions of poultry handling are absolutely no different than what my grandfathers used to describe "way back when". How EXTREMELY sad is that. Both of my grandfathers worked for ConEd (the NY electric utility) & were frequently called in to work at meat & poultry processing plants. What they saw was beyond disgusting. And like I said - nothing apparently has changed. Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook oour food longer". I find this completely unacceptable & unbelievable at the same time.

 

[pacanis]

Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook our food longer"

This is right along the lines I was wondering... if poor handling of food can be "cured" with proper cooking or reheating techniques.

 

[VeraBlue]

I'll have to remember the cold water thing. I'd only ever used that for thawing sea food.
I regularly thaw my steaks on one of those aluminum plates, turning it over and moving it to another spot on the plate. Never tried it with burger or pork and I never use the microwave to thaw anything because it always looks partially cooked no matter what the settings are on.

My question is, and this is off the actual topic, but falls under the subject line;
Is it OK to eat cooked meat that has sat out all night?
Whenever I cook pork chops (in particular) I like to make a plate for lunch the next day with the leftovers. More than once I've set a chop or two on a plate to cool down before covering with plastic wrap and refridgerating and forgotten them for several hours or even until the next morning. I usually eat around 9 at night, so we're talking 8-9 hours cooling off to room temp if forgotten until morning. Seems like I remember picnics when I was a kid where the chicken, meats and other foods were always air temp. We would take short day trips and eat when we got there. I don't remember any coolers with ice.
Look at the pig roasts where people are still munching on the pork sitting on the table into the wee hours.... not that I would know anything about that

Is there a definite difference or does it fall under, "When in doubt...."?

Thanks

Any and all food is subject to the same rules regarding time and temperature. Food that is meant to be hot must be kept at 140 degrees. If it falls outside that temperature zone for more than two hours, the food is no longer considsered safe for comsumption. Never leave food on the counter to cool to room temperature before placing into the refrigerator. Room temperature is 70 degrees and extremely unsafe...it's a haven for rapid multiplication of bacteria. When you have finished dinner, simply put your chops onto a plate you are comfortable putting into the fridge. Put them in the fridge, uncovered. They'll cool to 40 quickly enough to still be safe for future consumption.

So many people think it's unwise to put hot food into the refrigerator. Nothing could be further from the truth. Room temperature is nothing but a breeding ground for foodborne illness and intoxication.

 

[VeraBlue]

I guess by reading the info on some of these posts, alot of us should have either died or been sick along time ago. I truly would not be willing to bet that my Mom or Aunt would agree with the two hour thing of leaving meat out. I know they always, ALWAYS left turkeys out overnight to thaw out and such. My Mom thawed meat on the counter for all the years that I can remember. I don't remember anyone in the family ever having gotten sick on it either.

People can agree or not, but the facts are there, proven beyond a doubt what can and does multiply at temperatures that are considered unsafe.
One of the things about 'many years ago' food is that it wasn't handled nearly as much as food that is mass produced today. As little as 40 years ago, all food was much more natural. Livestock was slaughtered and consumed within days instead of weeks and months, now. Seafood was sold in markets near the shore, not shipped frozen and half defrosted by the time it arrived in market.
Also, most people can fight off a case of food borne illness or even an intoxication if they are healthy to begin with. You get the runs for a couple of days, or chuck it up and that's the end of it. For everyone that says 'my mother always did it this way and no one got sick'....is more than likely misinformed. If you ever saw anyone taking pepto bismol or milk of magnesia or some other stomach ailment, it was probably for a case of foodborne illness.....

 

[VeraBlue]

I agree Marg.

I think what's MOST shamefull is the way our food is processed these days. Here we are supposed to have all sorts of modern technology, yet our food processing plants are hotbeds of disease & improper handling.

Current descriptions of poultry handling are absolutely no different than what my grandfathers used to describe "way back when". How EXTREMELY sad is that. Both of my grandfathers worked for ConEd (the NY electric utility) & were frequently called in to work at meat & poultry processing plants. What they saw was beyond disgusting. And like I said - nothing apparently has changed. Instead of cleaning up the industry, we're being told to "cook oour food longer". I find this completely unacceptable & unbelievable at the same time.

The majority of reputable food processing plants are cleaner than your own kitchen, Breezy. They have to be, in this society of lawsuits and litigation. There are more safety protocols in place such as HACCP (hazard and critical control point) than I'd ever be able to list here. If you followed the journey of chicken for instance today this is what you'd encounter:

A live chicken, living in a cage, being fed a feed that is more steroid and additive than grain. The first HACCP would be how the feed is stored. Next, the chicken is slaughtered. HACCP would be if the knife was sanitized prior to beheading. If the chicken was hung to drain, the next HACCP would be to insure that the flesh was not pierced, or if it was, was the hook sanitized. Next, would be plucking. That would have to be done in a set amount of time so the flesh could be properly refrigerated. That would be the next HACCP. After plucking, comes butchering. Here, you'd have lots of HACCPs - was the knife sanitized, was the cutting board sanitized, at what temperature was the chicken when it was cut, how long did it remain at that temperature. Was the handler healthy? Were his clothes clean or blood covered? Was the cutting room clean and sanitized? From the processing plant, the chicken is sent to market. The next HACCP is to record the temperature of the chicken when it is placed in the truck, the temperature of the truck and the length of the journey. Is there an alarm on the truck's refrigeration unit should the temperature rise? Next, it arrives at the store, where everything must be temped, timed and recorded, again. How long does it sit on the loading dock before it is placed back in refrigeration? Another HACCP. Next, it goes into a display case. What is the temperature of the case? Another HACCP. How long does it sit there? Another HACCP. Finally, you pick the package up and place it in your cart as you continue to shop for perhaps another 30 minutes, maybe longer. Another HACCP...the chicken is now no longer being held at 40 degrees. You pay for your purchases and place the bag into your truck, which could be anywhere from 80 to a hundred degrees. The next HACCP is anyone's guess because that one depends on how long it takes you to get home. You bring the bags into your room temperature home. Whatever time you picked the chicken from the display case minus shopping and traveling has to be less than two hours until the time you refrigerate it again. Next, you remove it from the package to season it. Another HACCP - is your cutting board sanitized? Are your hands clean? Is your knife sanitized? For however long you have it out as your work it is just more time for bacteria to grow. You return it to the fridge, another HACCP. When you cook the chicken, is it properly cooked? Another HACCP. Is it kept hot during the meal? If not, you only have two hours below 140 for it to remain safe for consumption. If you have leftovers, do you place them into a clean vessle? Another HACCP. Does your chicken cool to 40 degrees quickly? Are leftovers consumed within several days? When reserved, was the chicken reheated quickly enough? Another HACCP.

Any reputable food processing plant checks each and every one of the HACCPs I outlined. If you are told to cook your food longer, it's not because it was processed poorly, it's because the chicken itself has been pumped full of chemicals from the first time it was fed.

 

[PBear42]

YT2095: I`ve often left pizza in the box over night and eaten it next day (even cold).

Have puzzled over that one myself. To put this in context, I'm pretty conservative on these issues (though maybe not quite as conservative as GB and VeraBlue). But that mostly means I almost never leave stuff on the counter, etc., not that I do and have long conversations with myself about whether it's worth the risk. Pizza is the exception. I've decided it's okay because (i) it's been thoroughly cooked, (ii) most of the pizza (i.e., the crust and topping) is low moisture, (iii) the part that ain't (the sauce) is acidic and (iv) I've never heard of it as a significant hazard (and it happens all the time). That said, we're outside approved guidelines.

 

[bethzaring]

Never leave food on the counter to cool to room temperature before placing into the refrigerator. Room temperature is 70 degrees and extremely unsafe...it's a haven for rapid multiplication of bacteria. When you have finished dinner, simply put your chops onto a plate you are comfortable putting into the fridge. Put them in the fridge, uncovered. They'll cool to 40 quickly enough to still be safe for future consumption.

So many people think it's unwise to put hot food into the refrigerator. Nothing could be further from the truth. Room temperature is nothing but a breeding ground for foodborne illness and intoxication.

This is soooo true. And should be heeded. The mass of leftovers is so small, as compared to a 3 gallon soup, that it should be immediately plated and put in the fridge, once it is determined that they are leftovers.

 

[pacanis]

[/b]This is soooo true. And should be heeded. The mass of leftovers is so small, as compared to a 3 gallon soup, that it should be immediately plated and put in the fridge, once it is determined that they are leftovers.

Can you clarify please?
If you make 3 gal of soup, take out what you are immediately going to eat, you do not wait for the soup to cool down before refridgerating?
Doesn't that cause the fridge temp to drop or the soup to condensate and water down? I did not know those plastic shelves could even handle a pot right off the stove, unless you are setting the pot on something. That's why I always thought it best to let the food temp drop a little.
But again, the way we were raised or got used to things being done isn't neccesarily the best way

Thanks