Organic mushrooms

[elitova]

Hi there.

I don't know much about organic produce, but I have "heard" of the unsavoury ingredients that go into regular compost for commercially grown mushrooms (i.e. animal manure...).

Does anybody know if organic mushrooms are/can be grown in better conditions?

Thanks very much for the advice.

From a naive cook who is keen to improve her food and health

 

[GotGarlic]

Hi. Animal manure is a common fertilizer used in both conventional and organic farming. It's well composted (at least for conventional use), so any dangerous pathogens are no longer present. It might sound nasty but it's a perfectly normal thing to do.

It's my understanding that mushrooms are frequently grown in a sterile dirt-free medium these days. I don't eat them much, but someone more knowledgeable will come along [emoji2]

 

[jennyema]

I'd worry a lot more about eating Tilapia ....

 

[elitova]

Tilapia? Curious - why?

 

[Dawgluver]

Tilapia is mostly imported from Asia, and is “farmed” in ponds that usually include a lot of waste, along with antibiotics and other unnatural substances.

Organically grown mushrooms, even in composted manure, should be just fine.

 

[blissful]

We just spread and tilled in 2 trailer loads of composted manure into our gardens. Nothing better for growing most things.

 

[Dawgluver]

Agree, blissful. Years ago, we toured a mushroom farm in PA, where the mushrooms were grown in manure. The smell was nice and earthy,not stinky at all.

 

[Just Cooking]

Tilapia is mostly imported from Asia, and is “farmed” in ponds that usually include a lot of waste, along with antibiotics and other unnatural substances.

Organically grown mushrooms, even in composted manure, should be just fine.

I may turn green before I die of unnatural substances but, I love tilapia...

Ross

 

[larry_stewart]

Agree, blissful. Years ago, we toured a mushroom farm in PA, where the mushrooms were grown in manure. The smell was nice and earthy,not stinky at all.

Same experience , toured a mushroom farm 2 years ago.

In addition, other types of mushrooms are grown in different mediums.

Some in straw, compacted saw dust ( different trees different for different mushroom varieties) and inoculated logs .

Ive done a bunch of mushroom kits at home, from sterilized manure, to all the other above mentioned mediums. None were offensive in any way.

 

[blissful]

If every item in the grocery store, that was grown in soil fortified with compost or manure, was labeled as 'grown in soil with compost/manure', would anything be left unlabeled? Even meat is grown in fields and barns that have manure in them. Fish breath water they defecate in.

 

[di reston]

I'd rather buy food that's cultivated in ground that's treated with natural fertilisers. It goes back into the ground, it rots, and it enriches the soil at the same time. I don't like food that's 'enriched' with chemical fertilisers, and this is a view rigorously held by - surprise - those who live in the countryside and have enough ground to cultivate a vegetable patch and an orchard. Here, there are many shops that sell locally raised produce, and the markets are also held in all the big cities, the smaller cities, and it's like that all over Italy.
Since I've been in Italy, I've noticed that my skin is better, and my general health is better as well. Natural fertilisers have been used for centuries, and we're all still here - I would'nt like to bet that the same thing would happen with chemicals.

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde

 

[tenspeed]

According to "What Einstein Told His Cook", mushroom growers compost their substrate material for 15 to 20 days, which raises its temperature to sterilizing levels. And any brown dirt you see isn't manure, it's probably sterilized peat moss, with which the growers cover the composted substrate.

The author of the book is a professor emeritus of chemistry at the University of Pittsburgh. It's an entertaining and informative book. Recommended.

 

[GotGarlic]

I'd rather buy food that's cultivated in ground that's treated with natural fertilisers. It goes back into the ground, it rots, and it enriches the soil at the same time. I don't like food that's 'enriched' with chemical fertilisers, and this is a view rigorously held by - surprise - those who live in the countryside and have enough ground to cultivate a vegetable patch and an orchard. Here, there are many shops that sell locally raised produce, and the markets are also held in all the big cities, the smaller cities, and it's like that all over Italy.
Since I've been in Italy, I've noticed that my skin is better, and my general health is better as well. Natural fertilisers have been used for centuries, and we're all still here - I would'nt like to bet that the same thing would happen with chemicals.

You know, di, "natural" fertilizers and "chemical" fertilizers contain the exact same chemicals that plants need to grow: nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, plus some micronutrients.

Life expectancy in 1900 was 35 years old. We're still here not because life was so great back then but, in part, because of advances in farming that have led to much better yields and fewer crop failures. Advances in understanding of the causes and treatments of disease play a large role as well. And, of course, most families had at least a half dozen children, which was helpful since so many didn't survive childhood diseases.

 

[di reston]

GG, the debate about 'organic or chemical' fertilizers is not just about growing crops, as you know. In many respects they both do the same job. But organic fertilizers add moisture to soil where chemical ones don't, which you also know.They encourage water retention in the soil. This year. a great deal of Europe, particulaly Southern Europe, has had no rain for the whole summer - nearly six months without, and, now we're in Autumn, it still hasn't rained. You can see the arid ground - it's like powder, and unless it rains, growers won't have crops next year except those farmers who spread organic matter. There was no rice this year because of drought either. It's not a good thing to come up against. For the first time in my life, I've seen it all around me. Very bad water shortage.Bans on the use of water all summer But there are those farmers who use organic manures and the like, and you can see the difference in the quality of the soil, and the farmers reckon that next year it may be possible to plant as usual. Most of us are used simply to going to the Supermarket to get what we want. But it makes you think when all you can see around you are barren fields, shrivelling vines, fruit that doesn't ripen properly for the lack of water - Chemical fertilizers won't remedy that. You stand a better chance with organic.


di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde

 

[GotGarlic]

GG, the debate about 'organic or chemical' fertilizers is not just about growing crops, as you know. In many respects they both do the same job. But organic fertilizers add moisture to soil where chemical ones don't, which you also know.They encourage water retention in the soil. This year. a great deal of Europe, particulaly Southern Europe, has had no rain for the whole summer - nearly six months without, and, now we're in Autumn, it still hasn't rained. You can see the arid ground - it's like powder, and unless it rains, growers won't have crops next year except those farmers who spread organic matter. There was no rice this year because of drought either. It's not a good thing to come up against. For the first time in my life, I've seen it all around me. Very bad water shortage.Bans on the use of water all summer But there are those farmers who use organic manures and the like, and you can see the difference in the quality of the soil, and the farmers reckon that next year it may be possible to plant as usual. Most of us are used simply to going to the Supermarket to get what we want. But it makes you think when all you can see around you are barren fields, shrivelling vines, fruit that doesn't ripen properly for the lack of water - Chemical fertilizers won't remedy that. You stand a better chance with organic.

The amount of moisture in composted manure is not enough to grow healthy plants in the absence of rain or irrigation, and not all organic fertilizers contain moisture. The Feed & Seed store where I buy garden supplies carries organic mushroom compost; it's ground to dust. California has suffered a tremendous drought for several years (I have family and friends there), so we're well aware of what happens in a drought-stricken area.

Also, farmers use several techniques to retain moisture and maintain soil health, such as no-till farming, which minimizes disruption of soil structure.

Btw, some GMO crops are developed to be more drought-resistant, but of course they won't be classified as organic. It's too bad because the effects of these droughts are not going away any time soon.

 

[bethzaring]

The amount of moisture in composted manure is not enough to grow healthy plants in the absence of rain or irrigation, and not all organic fertilizers contain moisture. The Feed & Seed store where I buy garden supplies carries organic mushroom compost; it's ground to dust. California has suffered a tremendous drought for several years (I have family and friends there), so we're well aware of what happens in a drought-stricken area.

Also, farmers use several techniques to retain moisture and maintain soil health, such as no-till farming, which minimizes disruption of soil structure.

Btw, some GMO crops are developed to be more drought-resistant, but of course they won't be classified as organic. It's too bad because the effects of these droughts are not going away any time soon.

That depends on how much you use. I imported 8 tons of compost (aged manure and plant materials) so I plant in 100% compost. It holds water very well. It is common here in the high desert to plant in 100% compost.

 

[di reston]

Well, no, I don't think drought conditions will go away quickly, and obviously it would time for soil conditions to return to being healthy. BTW, I didin't mean to be condescending about drought conditions here - they're commonplace in many countries now. I saw what happens for the first time this year. Here, too, farmers are beginning to use only land that they really need for working. They leave a lot of space fallow, then the fields are used for grazing. It has a diverse look in the countryside - you could see a field of geese, with a couple of donkeys, or cattle, or laid to vegetable production. Grain at the moment is out of the question because of the dry conditions - or so I'm told by my neighbours. Where I live is a UNESCO Site of Special Interest, so there are strict procedures that have to be followed to maintain the structure of nature that exists here. Interesting to talk with you

di reston

Enough is never as good as a feast. Oscar Wilde

 

[GotGarlic]

That depends on how much you use. I imported 8 tons of compost (aged manure and plant materials) so I plant in 100% compost. It holds water very well. It is common here in the high desert to plant in 100% compost.

Eight tons of compost every year?

We're talking about farming here, not home gardening - even fairly large-scale gardening. That kind of addition is not affordable for farmers with hundreds of acres.

 

[GotGarlic]

Well, no, I don't think drought conditions will go away quickly, and obviously it would time for soil conditions to return to being healthy. BTW, I didin't mean to be condescending about drought conditions here - they're commonplace in many countries now. I saw what happens for the first time this year. Here, too, farmers are beginning to use only land that they really need for working. They leave a lot of space fallow, then the fields are used for grazing. It has a diverse look in the countryside - you could see a field of geese, with a couple of donkeys, or cattle, or laid to vegetable production. Grain at the moment is out of the question because of the dry conditions - or so I'm told by my neighbours. Where I live is a UNESCO Site of Special Interest, so there are strict procedures that have to be followed to maintain the structure of nature that exists here. Interesting to talk with you.

I didn't take it as condescending. We're just having an interesting discussion [emoji2] I mentioned it because I wasn't sure if you had heard about it before.

 

[Addie]

When I lived in Spanaway, WA, just about two blocks from my home was a fertilizer place. Every morning you would see these great big trucks heading down there with their load. Cow and Horse manure. He did not accept manure from other farm animals like sheep and pigs. To this day I wish I had asked him why. It was mixed with bales upon bales of hay. Along with some of the already processed "dirt."

One day I got curious and took a walk down there. The owner showed me the whole operation. It can take anywhere from three to five months for the manure to break down into dirt. No chemicals were ever added. As I was standing there a full truck pulled up. (Phew!! Hold your nose, cover your mouth!) I got to watch the whole process. After the truck had left its load of manure, it pulled around to the back and filled up with new dirt. He had a pasture that needed replanting.

I did notice that the bales were tied with twine, not wired like other bales I grew up knowing. I asked the owner why. The twine breaks down, wire doesn't and a farmer doesn't want one of his animals getting stuck with a piece of it.

Before I left I picked up a handful of clean dirt. It smell so earthy. A real nice clean smell.