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Old 05-03-2012, 07:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
And all of a sudden the site is now shutdown.
Which site? The one with the article? Tis still there.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:05 AM   #22
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When I clicked on it, the site was not there. Now it is. And I clicked on the same link. I have the feeling they changed some of their statements. Did anyone look for changes?
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:24 AM   #23
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I found this from the Quebec chicken growers? raisers?

Google Translate

The original, French version is here: Les antibiotiques administrés aux animaux sont en petites doses et éliminés avant sa mise en marché. | Le Poulet du Québec

They claim that all of those antibiotics they use are out of the chickens before they go to market.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:31 AM   #24
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I see the site with the article is a little slow. Getting overloaded is not uncommon when a not very high profile site gets featured in Yahoo or some other news compilation.

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Originally Posted by Gourmet Greg View Post
Well that's the whole basis for the organic food movement. The real issue is that we need to take these organic concerns mainstream. If it's not good for those who are more critical and discerning than the rest of us, maybe it's not good for any of us. Maybe the organic enthusiasts are right and maybe the rest of us are killing ourselves with cheap but contaminated foods.
Perspective is good. In many if not most very important ways, we have the safest, cleanest, most honest commercial food supply chain in history. We can be pretty confident our tea isn't recycled used tea from collected used bags mixed with various toasted weeds. We aren't going find brick dust in our flour or ground umbrella handles in our parmesan cheese. (Although that stunt was discovered not that long ago.) And it would be hard to choose between trace antibiotics in water and coal burning byproducts in the air of a large 19th century city. And we ban and warn against many substances that can but mostly don't cause serious problems. And the business of alarming people about the food and environment has become a big business itself, with a lot of people dependent on an alarmed population for their living.

But most people have little real knowledge of what organic certification means. And a lot of what they think is good about it doesn't matter much, while they have no idea of some of the effects that do matter. Often, "organic" tells you more about how something was processed and what virtues haven't been destroyed than how it was grown.

And organic is not in all ways better. Some bacteria and fungi that cannot be effectively killed by organic means can be dangerous. The use of animal fertilizers instead of sterile chemical fertilizers presents obvious opportunities for hazards. Pastured chickens are out in the world, rather than in controlled environments. They avoid some problems of factory raising, and they can be more exposed to other diseases, salmonella, for one, that is dirt-borne. And it's quite possible that organic methods would require a great deal more environmental impact than conventional methods, kind of like the gross additional pollutants involved in manufacture of a hybrid automobile that make the Hummer possibly a more environmentally friendly car. There ain't no free lunch. (There used to be a free lunch. It was heavily salted to make you drink more beer, but the lunch itself was free. Each person gets to say for themselves if drinking more beer was a bad thing.)

"Organic" is in favor, and that's not a bad thing, but it's afforded almost holy status, and there's little talk about the trade-offs, other than cost. There's no question, in choosing one of the other, you're choosing between two sets of possible hazards. That one set of hazards would seem to be "natural" doesn't make it in all ways better, just historically familiar. But historically, people consumed really terrible adulterants in happy ignorance. So, you do what you can and make the best guesses you can, but neither choice makes you clearly more worthy or even healthier.

As in everything, when you believe what someone tells you, when it's in that person's interest to have you believe them, you've accepted a poor basis for that belief.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #25
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I switched to organic or better quality (at least) chickens awhile ago.

Supermarket chickens have gone too far downhill for me.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #26
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I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect there are a lot of people who simply look for the "o" word on product packaging, without thinking much beyond that. They may not realize that organic junk food is still junk food. Or that organic food is not necessarily more nutritious. The jury is still out on that front. Or that organic doesn't mean it was produced by a small farmer down the road. Many organic farms are every bit as industrialized as conventional farms, and when you buy an organic banana, chances are it's still being shipped here on a pollution-spewing boat alongside conventionally grown produce.

For many of us who try to eat organic, seeking out better quality food is only part of the picture - though that's certainly a big part of it. It's also a choice that encourages being more ecologically conscious, trying to avoid pesticide residues and GMOs, and overall, just being more aware of what really goes into our nation's food supply.

Having said that, given the choice between a fancy bag of organic spinach grown a thousand miles away and a bunch of spinach from the farmer's market that's so fresh it still has morning dew on the leaves, I'll take the farm market spinach any day.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
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...
Having said that, given the choice between a fancy bag of organic spinach grown a thousand miles away and a bunch of spinach from the farmer's market that's so fresh it still has morning dew on the leaves, I'll take the farm market spinach any day.
I want to talk to the farmer and find out what kind, if any, of poisons he has put on the spinach.

Given the choice between too great a travel distance and poisoned food, I often choose something else.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:16 PM   #28
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I want to talk to the farmer and find out what kind, if any, of poisons he has put on the spinach.
And that, my dear, is why I buy it from the farmer's market.

Because I can talk to the farmer face-to-face, I know who is and who isn't using responsible growing methods. Many of the ones around here are pretty much pesticide free and proud to say so.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #29
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And that, my dear, is why I buy it from the farmer's market.

Because I can talk to the farmer face-to-face, I know who is and who isn't using responsible growing methods. Many of the ones around here are pretty much pesticide free and proud to say so.
I wish there was a farmer's market near me. The one nearby isn't really a farmer's market. You talk to the vendors and they will tell you anything you want to hear, but you can tell that's what they are doing.

I live in the suburbs, closer to the farms than the city, but I have to go into the city to get to a real farmer's market. That's not strictly true. The agricultural college has one in summer. It's open for very limited hours and only a few days a week, but I should check when it is open. They don't seem to have anything this year. Sigh. But, I did find:

"Ste. Anne market is in the parking lot across the street from town hall, at 109 Ste. Anne St., from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. It has about 16 booths with vendors selling everything from starter plants to an array of locally grown vegetables and fruits, flowers, breads, meat, herbs and artisan creations."

That's 17.5 km away. That's only 5 km closer than Jean-Talon Market, North America's largest outdoor market. At least the one in Ste-Anne will have parking.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:51 PM   #30
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if what a chicken is fed remains in it's flesh when slaughtered and sent to market, and happier chickens taste better, i wish there were slacker chickens.

you know, chickens fed pot, beer, doritos, and m&m's.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:55 PM   #31
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if what a chicken is fed remains in it's flesh when slaughtered and sent to market, and happier chickens taste better, i wish there were slacker chickens.

you know, chickens fed pot, beer, doritos, and m&m's.


But, let's skip the Doritos. They have MSG, which gives me a reaction.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:11 PM   #32
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What doesn't make you stronger kills you, or something like that.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:22 PM   #33
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What doesn't make you stronger kills you, or something like that.
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. You were close, but no cigar. Nice effort.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:31 PM   #34
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I live less than ten minutes from the Chelsea Produce Market. All produce from all over the world comes there for Boston and surrounding areas.

For the past couple of years, they have had a farmers market for local farmers. The area is not a very savory one. They are not in competition with the businesses there, as they service supermarkets, and other big food stores. And the public can not buy fromthem. All their food is in boxes or crates.

In spite of the location, the farmers market is doing very well. There is plenty of secrurity, parking and a large selection of foods. You just have to watch where you are driving. The big 18-wheelers always have the right of way. And there are signs stating so. The big drawback is the condition of the streets. Cobblestones. They force the truck drivers to drive slower. It is like riding on Buckboard Boulevard in a stagecoach.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:10 PM   #35
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In my world, 18 wheelers always have the right of way. I know who comes out second best in argument.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:33 PM   #36
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And that, my dear, is why I buy it from the farmer's market.

.
I wish we had market here year around, but what do you do in the winter. which is most part of the year here.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:23 PM   #37
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I have a farmers market near my home that is open to the public all year, one day in the winter and two days in the summer. They have every type of vendor from agribusiness to city back yard farmers. Like some of the others have said, I like to hand the money to the person that planted and harvested the food. I also like to quiz the farmers kids about what the variety is and how it is grown. I do not get everything from the little guys but, I do the best I can and I am constantly finding new sources for things. I am glad I have the time to do it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:48 PM   #38
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Of course what an animal eats is passed along to those who later eat the animal. That doesn't take any kind of degree what-so-ever to figure out.

"Grass fed" & "corn fed" have been touted forever as ways to describe the flavors and texture of beef. Dairy cattle injected with rBGH (the growth hormone which boosts milk production) pass those hormones right along to the people who drink their milk. Chicken is labeled as "open range", "vegetarian fed", etc. for the same reasons: what an animal eats (or what an animal is injected with) matters.

Educating yourself and making decisions about how your food is raised, grown and processed isn't about being paranoid, it's about being smart. Burying your head in the sand and pretending that things like this have zero effect on you and your family is exactly what the big-industry farms love to have happen; they have zero interest in our well-being and are focused totally on their bottom line.

Being a sheeple is dangerous and deadly, today more than ever. You obviously can't fix every wrong but I think the more people that are aware the better. More and more people are spending their food dollars in ways that support healthy stewardship of animals and crops. And I am one of them as often as I can reasonably be!
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:51 PM   #39
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if what a chicken is fed remains in it's flesh when slaughtered and sent to market, and happier chickens taste better, i wish there were slacker chickens.

you know, chickens fed pot, beer, doritos, and m&m's.
I don't know about the doper alcoholic chickens, but do you think that raising chickens on M 'n Ms could give us chocolate chickens? Mmmmmm! I could go for that!
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:52 PM   #40
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Our farmer's market opens this weekend. I am so ready for some fresh veg.
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