Help with Rye Bread
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Bolas De Fraile
Executive Chef
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Unlucky Luca there are so many types of rye bread from pumpernickel to london rye.
What type is it and which recipe
What type is it and which recipe
GLC
Head Chef
Rye breads of all rye flour will not rise very much with out special treatment. That's many rye bread recipes use goodly quantities of wheat flour. When a light and more risen pure rye bread is needed, alternatives to standard yeast are used that involve creating a more acid dough for chemical reasons not worth going into here.
To make pure rye bread, you don't have a lot of practical home options if you want it to rise significantly. The common approach is to use a sourdough starter as leaven and preferment a rather large quantity of dough overnight. The acid production will alter the chemistry to inactivate the element that inhibits rising. You use sourdough starter because regular yeast suffers in this environment.
But you get rye flavor and rood rising by combining wheat flour. Two parts wheat to one part rye, and you can usually get away with half and half, but it doesn't add that much more rye flavor, and you give up a lot of gluten needed to rise a yeast bread.
Part of the difficulty of answering is not knowing the recipe(s) you tried and not knowing the details of how you handled the process and things like the conditions of proofing, kneading, etc, or how much bread making you've done. If you're already trying a more or less normal recipe with more wheat than rye, consider a period of letting the dough sit for 20 to 30 minutes before kneading. This is a period of autolyzing in which the dough becomes more ready to form strong gluten structures during kneading. If the kitchen is cold, provide a better environment for rising. You can just turn your oven on for one minute and then turn it off. That generally creates about the right temperature. You might also take care that you're not using too much salt. Salt inhibits yeast growth. We normally want some inhibition, but too much salt can be harmful, especially in a rye dough.
But, no. If you're going for a yeast bread that is substantially rye, it won't rise as much as wheat breads. And, as always when experiencing rising problems, test the yeast. Just because it's a new packet doesn't mean it's good.
To make pure rye bread, you don't have a lot of practical home options if you want it to rise significantly. The common approach is to use a sourdough starter as leaven and preferment a rather large quantity of dough overnight. The acid production will alter the chemistry to inactivate the element that inhibits rising. You use sourdough starter because regular yeast suffers in this environment.
But you get rye flavor and rood rising by combining wheat flour. Two parts wheat to one part rye, and you can usually get away with half and half, but it doesn't add that much more rye flavor, and you give up a lot of gluten needed to rise a yeast bread.
Part of the difficulty of answering is not knowing the recipe(s) you tried and not knowing the details of how you handled the process and things like the conditions of proofing, kneading, etc, or how much bread making you've done. If you're already trying a more or less normal recipe with more wheat than rye, consider a period of letting the dough sit for 20 to 30 minutes before kneading. This is a period of autolyzing in which the dough becomes more ready to form strong gluten structures during kneading. If the kitchen is cold, provide a better environment for rising. You can just turn your oven on for one minute and then turn it off. That generally creates about the right temperature. You might also take care that you're not using too much salt. Salt inhibits yeast growth. We normally want some inhibition, but too much salt can be harmful, especially in a rye dough.
But, no. If you're going for a yeast bread that is substantially rye, it won't rise as much as wheat breads. And, as always when experiencing rising problems, test the yeast. Just because it's a new packet doesn't mean it's good.
ChefJune
Master Chef
I've been baking rye breads for decades, but would need to see your recipe before I would venture any guesses on why it's not rising. Fwiw, rye bread never rises as much as wheat bread.
justplainbill
Executive Chef
Try using a 5 minute a day type recipe.
ChefJune
Master Chef
I'm curious what you're talking about "5 minutes a day" rye bread? What 5 minutes a day?
justplainbill
Executive Chef
Below is a link to one of many locations where 5 minutes a day is discussed-Back to Basics ~ tips and techniques to create a great loaf in 5 minutes a day. | Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
June, please do post you rey bread recipe. If you have more than one strat with the easiest one.
MostlyWater
Sous Chef
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
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i haven't made rye in years. it's pretty heavy/dense iirc. also, if it's cold where you are, yeast rises less.
GLC
Head Chef
This one is easy, but there are some ingredient issues. But I'll refer to it because I know it's reliable for me and has distinct rye flavor.
Caraway Rye Bread: King Arthur Flour
You'll see it calls for first clear flour, something you probably don't have around the kitchen. Same for the vital wheat gluten. Just substitute bread flour. It has more gluten. The taste won't be exactly the same, but it's perfectly acceptable. Do not omit or substitute the sour cream. The acid is essential. And I sometime add dill instead of caraway.
The execution is easy. But until you've worked out a rye recipe that you personally know works for you, there are no guarantees if you're looking for deep rye flavor, rather than a wheat bread that happens to have some rye flour in it. I still find myself kind of holding my breath, waiting to see how it goes, because I don't make it very often. Give it time to rise as well as it can. I put my dough in a metal bowl and set it atop a smaller bowl of hot water.
Caraway Rye Bread: King Arthur Flour
You'll see it calls for first clear flour, something you probably don't have around the kitchen. Same for the vital wheat gluten. Just substitute bread flour. It has more gluten. The taste won't be exactly the same, but it's perfectly acceptable. Do not omit or substitute the sour cream. The acid is essential. And I sometime add dill instead of caraway.
The execution is easy. But until you've worked out a rye recipe that you personally know works for you, there are no guarantees if you're looking for deep rye flavor, rather than a wheat bread that happens to have some rye flour in it. I still find myself kind of holding my breath, waiting to see how it goes, because I don't make it very often. Give it time to rise as well as it can. I put my dough in a metal bowl and set it atop a smaller bowl of hot water.
Bolas De Fraile
Executive Chef
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GLC google pain bouillie, I was taught this recipe when I was a kid in the bakery I worked in in Frejus. The key is the porridge made by pouring boiling water over the rye flour and adding sugar or honey then leaving for 12 hrs, you then add it to your dough, let it rise, knock back and laminate using olive oil.This will give you a light and well risen rye bread.
GLC
Head Chef
Thanks for that. I'll have to try it. It obviously provides the environment to deal properly with rye. I see one variation that includes overnight soaked cracked grain, like rolled oats, which sounds like good added texture. Besides, I like any recipe where the essential work happens on its own while I sleep. Are you leaving the rye porridge demonstrate a lot of activity, or just going 12 hours and using it?
Bolas De Fraile
Executive Chef
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I just leave the porridge in the pantry over night, I dont add rolled oats.
I think I posted my recipe for soda bread in which I use 250g strong white,250g wholemeal and 100g rolled oats click on pic to make bigger
I think I posted my recipe for soda bread in which I use 250g strong white,250g wholemeal and 100g rolled oats click on pic to make bigger
GLC
Head Chef
Sorry. I meant steel cut oats, not rolled. But you can stop showing me tempting pictures of bread. We're sort of on a diet (bad timing), and bread isn't on the menu.
Use more wheat flour
Since rye breads usually don't rise much, one easy way to ensure you get a higher rise is to use a higher percentage of white flour. Like this Jewish rye bread (inspired by Rose Levy Berenbaum's bread - fantastic flavor) http://www.christonium.com/culinaryreview/Real_Jewish_Rye_Bread
Of course, you can make a good rye bread without a high rise, it will just be a bit denser.
Since rye breads usually don't rise much, one easy way to ensure you get a higher rise is to use a higher percentage of white flour. Like this Jewish rye bread (inspired by Rose Levy Berenbaum's bread - fantastic flavor) http://www.christonium.com/culinaryreview/Real_Jewish_Rye_Bread
Of course, you can make a good rye bread without a high rise, it will just be a bit denser.
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Bolas De Fraile
Executive Chef
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4 I was brought up with jewish rye or london rye and it is one of my favorite toast and sandwich breads.
CharlieD
Chef Extraordinaire
I need to get my bread machine out and start making rye bread.
Is it healthier than whole wheat or is it other way around?
Is it healthier than whole wheat or is it other way around?
