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Old 01-19-2020, 11:32 AM   #1
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Kitchen fail, or no?

About a year ago I bought a Zojirushi mini, and it has delighted me far more than I ever thought it would. I've used it to make lots of the small loaves, and, while it probably upped my carb intake, on the other hand, it was all homemade with top ingredients.

OK, so I thought I would FINALLY branch out and use it to make rolls. I was using the combo whole wheat/bread flour recipe in the booklet. After taking them out following the first rise, I heated the oven up to 100 while dividing and shaping.

That's where I made my first mistake. I rolled them into balls then instead of waiting until the second rise. But they rose beautifully anyway, in the oven which also had a big plastic mixing bowl of hot water in it.

I oiled another baking sheet because I needed more room than I had on the original sheet than I realized. When I gently transferred them, they deflated immediately and I realized I should have probably left them on the original sheet. Second mistake. BUT .... I was supposed to slash them anyway, would that deflate them as well? Are they supposed to deflate after the second rise?

And, final, third mistake was .... I left the plastic bowl in, luckily on a wooden disk, while heating the oven to 400 F!!! How could I have made such a stupid mistake? Somehow I managed to get the distorted bowl out without burning myself, and get the rolls shoved in, while running the vent at full speed.

So the rolls certainly didn't rise much again, and the crust is hard, but they are edible, at least so far. (I think they might harden up significantly).

But I lost a longtime useful tupperware mixing/storage bowl.

So I guess two questions: 1) Should rolls deflate in some way AFTER the second rise, and 2) If not, wouldn't slashing them deflate them - why do that?

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Old 01-20-2020, 12:59 AM   #2
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Slashing rolls or loaves helps them rise more evenly - if hot slashed, they could rise up, then, while still rising in the oven break away on one side ore the other, creating an uneven roll or loaf. Or split down the middle, or in a more uneven way.

Don't feel bad about the tupperware - as old as it was it was probably one of those pieces with BPA, and other unsafe plastics. I got rid of many pieces way back, except things like flour holders, and other things that won't have wet or heated ingredients in them.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:12 AM   #3
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Roll are made by leeting the dough rise one time, then deflated, or punched down. The dough is then used to make the dough-balls that will become rolls. If you make three small douh-balls and place in buttered muffin tins, you will have hot-cross buns. If you make larger dough-balls, and place them into a rectangular pan, no slashing will be required, as they will expand to touch each other and fill the pan, giving you square dinner rolls. If you place the dough-balls onto a parchment paper lined cookie sheet, with enough room between them, you will need to slash the dough tops to help them maintain a good shape, before the 2nd rise. You can also roll out the dough to a quarter-inch thickness, and use a biscuit cutter, or drinking glass to cut rounds. These are then dipped in melted butter and folded in half before placing on a cookie sheet. The leftover dough is worked into a ball, re-rolled, and the process is repeated until all of the dough is used up.

With all of these, the first rise develops the flavor, and allows the dough to hydrate evenly. The 2nd rise develops the texture, and shape/crumb, and intensifies the yeast flavor, producing the final shape. After the 2nd rise care must be used to not deflate the buns. If you do deflate the dough, you can let it rise a third time, bit this can dry out the dough too much. This is the reason for covering the dough with a moist linnen towel, to keep the proper moisture content in the dough before baking.

These bakin rules are the same for all bread types, from sticky buns, to dinner rolls, to bread loaved, to yeast risen doughnuts, and buismarks, kringles, and pizza crust.

I hope this was clear, and is useful.

Working with breads is both a science, and an art. Think of bread braids, Long Johns, soft prez,les, and desert breads. Also remember that the moisture atnospher in your oven will make for a thicker crust (high moisture atmosphere), or thin and delicate crust (dry atmospher). The crust can be brushed with water for a thicker crust, or with milk, or egg wash for a shiney crust.

Any coating should be applied before th 2nd rise, or with a delicate silicone brush after the 2nd rise. Buttered, split-top breads are slashed end to end, with melted butter brushed on before the 2nd rise.

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Old 01-20-2020, 09:08 AM   #4
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Thank you for these responses!

But, doesn't slashing the rolls after the second rise deflate them?
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:47 AM   #5
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As I stated in my previous post, slashibg is done after the rolls are formed, and before th 2nd tise.

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Old 01-20-2020, 10:33 AM   #6
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It's not absolutely necessary to slash rolls at all. If they're properly shaped with a tight surface, they should rise fine in the oven. If you do slash them, though, you need to do it quickly and firmly with a sharp knife. Professional bakers use a lame - a handle to which you attach a razor blade so you can use it safely.

Here's a great video on different ways to shape, slash and decorate rolls.
https://youtu.be/DGo2VRgYSu4

And here's one on the basic technique for shaping rolls.
https://youtu.be/Gx2Sf3XqkhQ

This is a really good channel to subscribe to for bread-making. I also recommend starting at the beginning and going through all the videos. They're very well done.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Longwind Of The North View Post
If you make three small douh-balls and place in buttered muffin tins, you will have hot-cross buns.
Chief, I think you meant to say clover-leaf rolls. Hot-cross buns are the sweet rolls with a cross pattern on the top made with icing.

Clover-leaf rolls.
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Hot-cross buns.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Longwind Of The North View Post
As I stated in my previous post, slashibg is done after the rolls are formed, and before th 2nd tise.

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Ok, that makes more sense! The instructions in the Zoj booklet said to do it just before baking, but I had in any case already deflated them when I moved them from one baking sheet to another.

I'm going to try these again in a few days, and I'll take care to do all the manipulations before the second rise!
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:13 AM   #9
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I have only ever seen breads slashed just before going into the oven. Remember, a risen bread isn't like a balloon filled with air that will go flat if the surface is cut. It's more like a sponge with thousands of tiny bubbles of air. Cutting the tops to about a ⅓ to ½ inch shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:02 PM   #10
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Andy That's when I always slash the bread, too - just before baking.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:13 PM   #11
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I have only slashed my bread a couple of times. I did it right before putting the bread in the oven. I never got any kind of nice marks from the slashing, just some unattractive grooves. Maybe whole grain doesn't have as much oven spring. I always make whole grain bread. Next time I will try doing it after the bread is shaped for the second rise.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:52 PM   #12
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Yoi are correcy. I had my bin names mixed ip. I wal meaning cloverleaf rplls
Thanks for setting me straight.

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