Dry White Wine Substitution For An AA Member

[mamabailly]

I Want To Make Coquilles St. Jacques. It Is A Scallop Dish In A Cream, Lemon And Dry White Wine Sauce. What Do I Do For A Substitute For The White Wine?

 

[Seven S]

I Want To Make A Coquillews St. Jacques. It Is A Scallop Dish In A Cream, Lemon And Dry White Wine Sauce. What Do I Do For A Substitute For The White Wine?

You can try "verjus" if you can get it

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Verjus.htm

 

[kitchenelf]

There is really no good substitute if you are trying to cook totally without alcohol.

You can use chicken broth but it won't be the same.

You could use vermouth but it won't be the same.

You could use marsala but it won't be the same.

Back to if it's the alcohol you want to avoid you may even try a bit of apple cider. That't probably what I would chose, apple cider or apple juice. It at least has some flavor wherein the chicken broth will get lost.

Does this help you?

 

[Seven S]

or perhaps unsweetened grape juice if there is such as thing?

 

[Andy M.]

To completely avoid alcohol, use fish or chicken broth in the same quantity as the wine.

 

[kitchenelf]

You can try "verjus" if you can get it

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Verjus.htm

Seven - the article talks an awful lot of how you can use more of this stuff than lemon or vinegar and also calls it a flavor enhancer. So, I have a couple questions. Is it a vinegar type thing? Is it loaded with sodium like a cooking wine? Thanks - it's just hard to tell exactly what it does without ever having tasted it.

It doesn't really say to use it in place of wine - it says it doesn't distort the wine taste that you are drinking.

Because verjus is made from wine grapes and shares the same acid-base as wine, it is an elegant and delicate alternative to vinegar and lemon juice as it is “wine friendly” and will not distort the essence of the wine you serve.

 

[thymeless]

Verjus is an acidic unfermented grape product, though crab apples can be used too. I've never seen it in my area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verjus

But a non-alcoholic wine is probably next best thing.

As I rarely have alcohol around, I usually use a triple combo to replace white wine in cooking. A splash of apple juice for fruity sweetness, some stock for body and most of the liquid and a squeeze of lemon at the end for acidity and fruitiness.

For red wines, I substitute as above except for some balsamic or a good red wine vinegar instead of the lemon juice.

I think the real alcohol is worth it in some cases. A dish where a specific alcohol is the critical flavor (Veal Marsala for example). I also think red wine makes a great improvement to simmered italian tomato sauces.

And the Shiao Xing wine for chinese cooking is critical to the flavors there too, though a dry sherry works pretty well. Still alcohol though.

thymeless

 

[kitchenelf]

OK, I just changed the title of this thread - the "AA" got lost as one of the a's was not capitalized and it lost the AA meaning.

In this instance I would do what thymeless said reference the apple juice, chicken broth, and lemon - sounds like the perfect combination.

As far as proportions thymeless would you use a tad more apple juice than chicken broth?

 

[Seven S]

Seven - the article talks an awful lot of how you can use more of this stuff than lemon or vinegar and also calls it a flavor enhancer.

The article also says: "Used wherever vinegar and white wine are used in cooking, Verjuice is versatile, delicious and refreshing."

No, it isnt loaded with sodium like a cooking wine would be and it has a tart-like acidic taste, think of tasting a chardonnay without the alcohol and perhaps a little more concentrated. At a restaurant i worked, we made a two tone tomato gazpacho, one red and one yellow, and served in the same bowl, since the two were the same density, when served properly they held their positions (like a yin yang symbol) in the bowl until the customer stirred it. The recipes for both were similar except for the use of the red tomatoes substituting the yellow in the other recipe - but in one we used white wine and in the other verjus, they were used in the same proportion. I believe it to be as good a substitute as any other mentioned here, if not better, however the availability of it is another issue altogether.

mamabailly: If the coquille st jacques recipe you are using calls for reducing the white wine, i would use the verjus as is without reduction. in other words, add the amount of verjus that you would have ended up with if the white wine had been reduced.

 

[YT2095]

is there no way you can heat this wine and drive off the alc (it has a lower BP than the rest of the liquid), and then use it?

the best way would be a ban marie(sp?) in effect a double boiler usiing hot water to heat the wine in a bowl, waters BP is 100c alc is something like 78-79c, that way you don`t risk overheating or tainting the wine, you simply remove the ethanol

you could also do large batches of this and store it too, it will freeze quite nicely also

 

[kitchenelf]

I sure wish I could find this stuff - it certainly sounds interesting! Thanks for the input. The gazpacho plating sounds beautiful!

 

[kitchenelf]

is there no way you can heat this wine and drive off the alc (it has a lower BP than the rest of the liquid), and then use it?

the best way would be a ban marie(sp?) in effect a double boiler usiing hot water to heat the wine in a bowl, waters BP is 100c alc is something like 78-79c, that way you don`t risk overheating or tainting the wine, you simply remove the ethanol

you could also do large batches of this and store it too, it will freeze quite nicely also

Not all the alcohol will cook away and the main issue of concern here is cooking for an AA member. A percentage of the alcohol stays - always, and in this case with a delicate seafood dish, a LOT will probably stay - therefore the taste will stay too.

 

[Seven S]

is there no way you can heat this wine and drive off the alc (it has a lower BP than the rest of the liquid), and then use it?

i would have recommended the same, i dont know too much about aa's, but i do know that the amount of alcohol left in a wine reduction is minimal... truthfully, i do not think it would adversely affect an aa... i would, however, not mention that the sauce has white wine

brings up another thought - when aa's dine out do they specifically ask for sauces to be altered - would they order traditional recipes without the wine? im just curious, not trying to be funny or anything, because in traditional italian and french restaurants way too many stocks, poaching liquids, sauces call for a small amount of wines and the like for preparation, and even a server or restaurant manager might accidentally forget or not be aware of a recipe calling for such.

 

[kitchenelf]

............mmmmmmmmmmmmm - if you have ever seen someone "go down the tubes" due to drinking you would not hide the ingredients and do this to the person. It's sad to see what they go through. They lose everything they own AND their spouse AND their friends because they have no control and the urge to get that flavor outweighs EVERYTHING! When someone has gone into recovery you should respect that even at the cost of a recipe. I have a dear friend who is in recovery, has been for about 3 years. We are just now speaking again because of the things he did. I would NEVER EVER invite him to dinner and sneak in a wine reduction - that would be one of the cruelest things I could do to him.

Sorry to sound harsh - but a recovering alcoholic does not have it easy. I was up close and personal in their lives and it was not pretty to watch. Broken neck from falling over and he put his head through the sheetrock, black eyes from falling into a desk, totalled car, repossessed boat, repossessed car, repossessed house, lost a business that was bringing to him a mid six-figure income - and sadly lost his wife.

Trying to hide the fact that there is wine in the dish just isn't worth that "brain trigger" it may cause.

 

[thymeless]

I usually use more stock than apple as I find the sweetness more noticable. That's also likely because I cook reduced sodium in general. A more standard salt level would probably balance better with more sweetness. Tastes vary though.

For the seafood dish in question, i'd probably use some clam juice instead of chix stock. Fish stock would be better but I honestly rarely have it around. Clam juice I do have on hand though.

thymeless

 

[Lizannd]

Where can you find verjus? I'm guessing not a liquor store since there is no alcohol in it, but I've never seen it in a grocery store.

 

[kitchenelf]

Where can you find verjus? I'm guessing not a liquor store since there is no alcohol in it, but I've never seen it in a grocery store.

I would click on the link provided above and see if they can direct you - that's what I'm going to do when I have a minute.

 

[GB]

You can find it here

 

[YT2095]

Kitchenelf, ok cool, I understand a little now, sometimes I think Too much Science, Lab work and techniques, and perhaps forget the Human side of things, I never knew the Taste even though 100% alc free could trigger such a response
Sorry about that, it Was posted with the best of intentions though.

 

[Seven S]

I feel the same, I have never personally seen the extent of alcoholism first-hand and admit to be quite ignorant on the topic. I still find it intriguing though how they can go out and dine casually under these circumstances, as I have never actually received an order at my restaurants which specifically called for the exclusion of any alcohol like I have for allergies such as nuts and shellfish, or dairy exclusions for vegans, or kosher considerations like shellfish broths, and meat/cheese pairings.