Please help me troubleshoot: Dinner Rolls

[Andy M.]

...I didn't realize you could "use up" the yeast but that makes perfect sense. I was under the impression that you need to let the dough rise as much as possible each time...

Your process seems OK other than this. If the recipe doesn't come out right with this correction, try another recipe.

 

[Mad Cook]

Katie, the recipe you're using looks dubious.

I think one of your problems is that you have been mistreating your yeast, which isn't uncommon. I agree with others that your water is probably too hot. Looking at the recipe, "the hottest that your tap gets" is bad advice. You're probably killing off most of the culture and it never really recovers once you do that.

I've developed a great relationship with yeast over the years (I have some fifteen or so different strains sitting in my fridge at any given time). The liquid you proof it in should not be "hot." "Noticeably warm to the touch" would be a better way to describe it, and no more than 105 degrees. I then add just a pinch of sugar and, despite what you will sometimes read, I stir the yeast completely into the proofing liquid. Then just cover it loosely and let it sit for 20 minutes. If it sits any longer than 30 minutes or so, it will start to die off without food. If you do have to leave it longer than that, just add another pinch or two of sugar.

It's a myth that bread needs a warm place to rise. A little warmth will speed up the process, but it will rise perfectly fine at 68 degrees. It will simply take longer. I wouldn't recommend putting it in the oven. Again, you risk killing the yeast. Instead, you might just set the bowl on top of the warm oven, rather than in it.

I would also experiment with some different recipes. Even if a recipe claims to be a "copycat," it's only one person's opinion. That person could very well be wrong.

I was tauught that the slower the rise the better the flavour and, within reason, that seems to work.

Re the heat of the liquid for reconstituting the yeast - I stick my (clean) finger in and if I can't feel the heat or cold it's usually right (blood heat). Works for me.

Which reminds me I need to go and bake so "Night, Night." chaps and chapesses.

 

[Katie_Cooks]

So I tried this recipe again - on Thanksgiving no less! I was actually ahead of the curve on preparing the other items for that meal and was left with some downtime, so figured why not.

This time the changes were -

- allowing the yeast liquid to sit for less time (mix was about half liquid/half foam when I began mixing into the milk)

- cutting the first rise time in half, so that the dough rose only to double in size

- letting the dough rise on the counter instead of the warmed oven

The result was a better roll- they looked like the image in the recipe when baked (large and round) and they were much softer than my first try. They were acceptable and went on the Thanksgiving table. People ate them and enjoyed them. However - I felt they were bland tasting and they still weren't the end product that I was looking for. The only conclusion I'm left with is that this recipe must not be the one I am searching for to produce the exact copycat of the Golden Corral rolls.

 

[GotGarlic]

I just compared your recipe to the one I've been using for the last several years - my mother loves it, so it must be good

The ingredients in that recipe are very similar to what I use, doubled, except for the amount of egg. My recipe makes 9 rolls with 2-1/2 cups of flour and it calls for one egg. Since your recipe uses 4-1/2 cups of flour, adding another egg would give it a richer flavor. Hope this helps.

Also, I use my bread machine to make the dough, so I don't proof the yeast at all. All the ingredients go in, flour and yeast on top, and then I turn it on.

 

[salt and pepper]

 

[Cooking Goddess]

Those are drool-worthy, s&p!

...The liquid you proof it in should not be "hot." "Noticeably warm to the touch" would be a better way to describe it, and no more than 105 degrees...

HOW many yeasts, Steve?

Like Mad Cook, I test the temp against my skin. In my case, I dribble a little bit of water over my wrist, just like I did with the kids' bottled milk when they were babies.

It's a myth that bread needs a warm place to rise. A little warmth will speed up the process, but it will rise perfectly fine at 68 degrees...

Like Katie_Cooks, we keep our house rather cool. ~ Katie, another Katie here at DC, Katie H, along with a few other members, has given the suggestion to warm up the cabinet of your microwave by boiling water, then tucking the bowl of dough into the micro to rise. It's out of a draft, and is just a bit warmer than ambient temperature in the kitchen. I've had luck with my bread using that method.

Glad to hear you had good reviews on Thanksgiving. Just think how much better your family will find them when you finally hit on the perfect copy-cat roll. Good luck!

 

[dragnlaw]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the trick I learned from Chef John at Food Wishes.

If you have a light in your oven... turn it on and let the dough rest in there.

When it comes time to heat the oven - I just plunk the dough on the stove top, just not to close to the vents.

Course, when the new oven arrives, I don't remember exactly where the vents will be but I'll have fun finding out!

 

[Cooking Goddess]

Well, first one would have to watch/read Chef John and Food Wishes, wouldn't one? Personally, I find him rather...annoying.

FWIW, I have an oven that takes a notoriously long period of time to pre-heat. Poor bread would be out of shelter so long I'm afraid it would catch a cold! Also, a lot of people are now making no-knead bread. From what I know about it (not much...yet), you need to heat the cast iron pot when you're heating the oven. I would think it would just be easier to proof the bread in the micro and start heating the oven without worrying about timing. Just my 2 cents worth, though.

 

[dragnlaw]

Well, first one would have to watch/read Chef John and Food Wishes, wouldn't one? Personally, I find him rather...annoying.

FWIW, I have an oven that takes a notoriously long period of time to pre-heat. Poor bread would be out of shelter so long I'm afraid it would catch a cold! Also, a lot of people are now making no-knead bread. From what I know about it (not much...yet), you need to heat the cast iron pot when you're heating the oven. I would think it would just be easier to proof the bread in the micro and start heating the oven without worrying about timing. Just my 2 cents worth, though.

I sort of like Chef John's quips but I do agree some of them are repetitive.

But note that I say I kept the 2nd rise on the top of the stove while preheating the oven. I would cover with a towel that could stretch over the vents if I felt the kitchen was too cold. And yes, mine took an awful long time to preheat too.

I've done a couple of the no-knead breads. Still experimenting on them - find the crusts are too crusty thou - hard to slice and harder to bite thru - worry about my poor teeth.

I would bake a lot more breads but have no one to give them to - at least within a decent time line.

 

[Addie]

After a few times with the No Knead Method, I find that I miss that kneading step of bread making. It has always been a therapeutic step for me. The time period of 15 minutes or more can seem to be a long time for thinking. Well, now I find I must skip that step due to arthritis in my hands. So I have to let the bread machine do the kneading for me. But I still have aroma of bread baking to console me.

 

[Addie]

I've done a couple of the no-knead breads. Still experimenting on them - find the crusts are too crusty thou - hard to slice and harder to bite thru.

I too found them too crusty. But gave it the "good ole try" anyway. I found the recipe "too good to be true."

 

[Steve Kroll]

HOW many yeasts, Steve?

Oh, more than a dozen I'm sure. I'm not really a baker anymore, so most of them I have on hand for winemaking. I should add that I do add bread yeast to my low carb pizza dough, not because it provides rise to non-gluten flours. More just to give it an authentic bread flavor.

Funny thing, they are all different commercial strains of saccharomyces cerevisiae (a few are of the s. bayanus species), but there are a lot of behavioral differences. Some work better in colder environments. Some have different nutrient needs. I sometimes use two or three different strains in a given batch of wine.

In the past, I experimented using them for bread. They all give just a slightly different flavor and texture to the finished loaf.

 

[Mad Cook]

Well, first one would have to watch/read Chef John and Food Wishes, wouldn't one? Personally, I find him rather...annoying.

FWIW, I have an oven that takes a notoriously long period of time to pre-heat. Poor bread would be out of shelter so long I'm afraid it would catch a cold! Also, a lot of people are now making no-knead bread. From what I know about it (not much...yet), you need to heat the cast iron pot when you're heating the oven. I would think it would just be easier to proof the bread in the micro and start heating the oven without worrying about timing. Just my 2 cents worth, though.

I've read but never tried it, that if you shape the dough for baking and then put it in the cold oven while it heats up to bread-cooking temp it will rise as you want it until the oven reacheds the correct temp. As I say, I've never done it.

Never heard of heating the empty pan before putting the dough in it. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes.