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Old 04-10-2019, 06:24 PM   #1
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Rye berries

I was in the store a few weeks ago and came across rye berries .
I assume they are the rye grain in which rye flour is made out of.
Ive never had them before, so figured Id give it a try.
On the back of the package it says it could be used like any other grain ( obviously). Having worked with wheat berries before , I figured Id make some sort of salad from it. I also assumed it would have a unique flavor.

After cooking them up, I tasted them, and they tasted basically the same as wheat berries. Had a unique texture ( kinda chew, hard but soft in a good kinda way ). I wound up making a salad with the ry berries, onion, Greek olives, parsley, lemon juice, walnuts , chopped up stuffed grape leaves , salt and olive oil. Served it as a side to Spinach pie. It came out very good.

Here's the question I have .
I assume rye flour is made from rye berries.
I also assume that rye flour is a main ingredient in rye bread.
I was hoping the flavor would have had some rye bread flavor to it, but it did not at all. I never would have known it was rye.
I know rye bread has the caraway seeds in them, which give it a distinctive flavor.
I also know, the my wife often gets the rye bread with out the caraway seeds, cause the seeds are a little too potent for her.

Question: Where does the rye bread without caraway seeds get its rye bread flavor from, since the rye berries had no distinctive flavor at all ???

just curious.

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Old 04-10-2019, 07:32 PM   #2
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Good question. I often eat Danish style, heavy rye bread, which has no other grains in it and it has a distinctive taste. But, come to think of it, Rye Crisp and similar don't have a particularly strong, distinctly not-wheat flavour. More sort of like wheat, but more so.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:53 PM   #3
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Larry,

When I was growing up rye bread became my favorite bread, and I always thought that the caraway flavor was rye. Then, one time somebody got a seedless rye, and I thought "Where's the rye flavor!?"

It wasn't until I started baking my own bread that I realized what rye flour was really like. And that most storebought rye is mostly white flour. Actually, most rye bread has mostly wheat, as gluten is needed, unless you make one of those dense, 100% rye breads.

First, I was getting whole grain rye flour, from a co-op I was in, but after that, all I could find was medium rye flour, which was much lighter in color, and flavor, as it has much of the bran and germ removed. Dark rye has a smaller amount of the bran and germ removed, but is much darker, and almost as flavorful as whole rye. The flavor, as you noted, is similar to wheat - you'd have to try them side by side to see the difference. The flavor of rye breads is mostly the seasonings in the bread, plus, in the old northern European bakeries, the sourdough, which was done more out of necessity. In those regions, rye was the only grain that would grow, and the harvested grain would be stored in poor conditions, sprouting some of the grain. This increases the nutrition, but does something to the grain, chemically, making it very unfit for making yeast bread, but the sourdough worked well with it. This is why many classic rye breads are sourdough.

One of two Amish Markets that I used to buy dark rye flour at stopped stocking it - the guy there told me that there just wasn't much demand for it. If the other did the same, I may have to buy a 50 lb bag of rye berries from Honeyville, when they have one of their deals. Then, I'll just grind it as needed. It always seemed strange that the whole berries always cost about twice what the flour did, when the Amish market still carried it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:59 PM   #4
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Larry,

When I was growing up rye bread became my favorite bread, and I always thought that the caraway flavor was rye. Then, one time somebody got a seedless rye, and I thought "Where's the rye flavor!?"

It wasn't until I started baking my own bread that I realized what rye flour was really like. And that most storebought rye is mostly white flour. Actually, most rye bread has mostly wheat, as gluten is needed, unless you make one of those dense, 100% rye breads.

First, I was getting whole grain rye flour, from a co-op I was in, but after that, all I could find was medium rye flour, which was much lighter in color, and flavor, as it has much of the bran and germ removed. Dark rye has a smaller amount of the bran and germ removed, but is much darker, and almost as flavorful as whole rye. The flavor, as you noted, is similar to wheat - you'd have to try them side by side to see the difference. The flavor of rye breads is mostly the seasonings in the bread, plus, in the old northern European bakeries, the sourdough, which was done more out of necessity. In those regions, rye was the only grain that would grow, and the harvested grain would be stored in poor conditions, sprouting some of the grain. This increases the nutrition, but does something to the grain, chemically, making it very unfit for making yeast bread, but the sourdough worked well with it. This is why many classic rye breads are sourdough.

One of two Amish Markets that I used to buy dark rye flour at stopped stocking it - the guy there told me that there just wasn't much demand for it. If the other did the same, I may have to buy a 50 lb bag of rye berries from Honeyville, when they have one of their deals. Then, I'll just grind it as needed. It always seemed strange that the whole berries always cost about twice what the flour did, when the Amish market still carried it.
Thanks for the descriptive reply.
I was just reading a few recipes for seedless rye bread, and as you mentioned, they contain some seasoning elements, including ground caraway seeds. It all makes sense now !! I can chalk this one up as a ' you learn something new every day'. moment.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:04 AM   #5
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Grass Seeds are not Berries. Wheat, Barley, and Rye, are usually not cooked so much as Pulverised into flour. The Flavor of each grain is lost if you Boil the grain to make salad.


If you Sprout the grain first, then Ferment, they make excelent Beer or Whisky!


Bread? I don't quite understand at all!


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Old 07-22-2019, 10:58 AM   #6
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Do you all know anything about sprouting grains to eat? If you have, did you like the flavor?

I don't have Rye, Larry, but white and red wheat.
I've been cooking them (45 minutes) and they have a nice 'chew'. DH requests them for his salads, so I make them in big batches and freeze/thaw as needed.


I've learned that sprouted grains are the highest nutritional way to eat grains. I'm just not sure of the taste or texture.



My understanding of sprouting is that you soak them for a day, then drain and rinse. Leave them moist but not standing in water for up to 3 days until they sprout, rinsing twice a day.


Then you can eat them raw, or you can cook them, or you can dehydrate them and use them in breads whole, or dehydrate them and grind them into flour.
Your thoughts?
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:02 AM   #7
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I can't remember having sprouted grains by themselves. I usually find that having sprouted grains in bread makes it taste better to me.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:17 PM   #8
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Sprouting grains creates the perfect environment for growing food-borne diseases. We get vitamins C and A from colored bell peppers and hot peppers, so the risk of food poisoning isn't worth the extra nutrients obtained from sprouting grains

"Sprout production is a science with the need for quality monitoring and cleanliness. The warm, humid conditions required for sprouting are also ideal for bacterial growth of pathogens. If seeds are contaminated, Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 bacteria will quickly grow to unsafe levels, leading to foodborne illness. For safety, the Food and Drug Administration recommends that sprouts be fully cooked. Sprouts should not be served raw to vulnerable populations, such as children, pregnant women, the elderly, or those with compromised immune function."
https://extension.psu.edu/sprouting-...prouted-grains
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:06 PM   #9
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I for one, always appreciate reliable food safety information. Thanks GG.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:31 PM   #10
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I've never gotten sick from making my own sprouted beans or grains. I'm sure that it can happen, but then, it's safer, for sure, than buying it. But I use it more in cooked things - breads and soups - not in salads.

A favorite bread recipe of mine is one that starts 3 days before, with a quarter cup of wheat berries, sprouted to the length of the berries, then mixed into a WW bread dough, and it has a unique flavor, which doesn't taste like the sprouts. Not sure how they give that flavor, just being baked in the bread.

I haven't used sprouted rye before, but I might try that, since rye breads are my favorites.
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:06 PM   #11
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Pepperhead, thanks for responding to the topic.
I was reading that the wheat/rye/other berries, do a bit of fermentation when they sprout, which might lead to a more sourdough like flavor.



I'm going to try some sprouted red wheat berries.



I favor rye breads myself.
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:05 PM   #12
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Pepperhead gave pretty good description of what is going on. Most rye breads sold in stores in all honesty should be called white bread with some additives. Pumpernickel usually is the one that has most rye flour, witch is made from rye berries (make no sense to me, isn't it a grain?) and that is 15 to sometimes 20% of rye flour. Most other breads have anywhere between 5 and 10% of rye. Then they add bunch of stuff to make it dark and that could be anything, from tea to coffee. None of the rye breads I have purchased in US have tasted like rye breads I used to have in Soviet Union. Including European bakeries. The bread I like the most is Ukrainian that has 70 to 80% of Rye flour, the rest is wheat. I have been trying to reproduce this bread at home, without much success I might say. Though it tastes very much like rye, it is not the same. Love rye bread.
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:30 PM   #13
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CharlieD, There is a delicious rye bread in Artisan Bread Baking Across America, which is 100% rye (thus very dense), made with a firm sourdough starter (so it's not as sour as the liquid starters), and it has some softened, whole rye berries in it, as well. Been a while since I made it, but I do remember that much about it.

Those pumpernickel breads we usually see in stores probably don't even have the true pumpernickel flour in them! That is a courser grind of rye, and I used to be able to get it at the Amish market - not sure if the one place still has it, as usually, I just get the dark rye. Hopefully, they still keep carrying the rye, since the other market stopped.
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:33 PM   #14
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Pepperhead gave pretty good description of what is going on. Most rye breads sold in stores in all honesty should be called white bread with some additives. Pumpernickel usually is the one that has most rye flour, witch is made from rye berries (make no sense to me, isn't it a grain?) and that is 15 to sometimes 20% of rye flour. Most other breads have anywhere between 5 and 10% of rye. Then they add bunch of stuff to make it dark and that could be anything, from tea to coffee. None of the rye breads I have purchased in US have tasted like rye breads I used to have in Soviet Union. Including European bakeries. The bread I like the most is Ukrainian that has 70 to 80% of Rye flour, the rest is wheat. I have been trying to reproduce this bread at home, without much success I might say. Though it tastes very much like rye, it is not the same. Love rye bread.

CharlieD, I was reading about rye breads. In the newer recipes, cocoa and molasses, and other darkening agents are used. In the oldest of oldest recipes, the rye dough is made, then from what I remember, it is baked for a long long period (thinking this is like 10 + hours), in an environment where the humidity is kept fairly high for baking, until there is actually some browning or caramelizing of the sugars in the rye flour. This turns it very dark and I'm thinking, this might be what you are looking for. If I run across the recipe again, I'll pm you with it.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:24 AM   #15
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CharlieD, I was reading about rye breads. In the newer recipes, cocoa and molasses, and other darkening agents are used. In the oldest of oldest recipes, the rye dough is made, then from what I remember, it is baked for a long long period (thinking this is like 10 + hours), in an environment where the humidity is kept fairly high for baking, until there is actually some browning or caramelizing of the sugars in the rye flour. This turns it very dark and I'm thinking, this might be what you are looking for. If I run across the recipe again, I'll pm you with it.
Thank you. But Ukrainian bread is not baked that long. Just a different grain, a different flour, a different starter.
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