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Old 04-15-2016, 04:45 PM   #21
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It's really too bad that people are afraid of irradiated food. They seem to think that the process makes the product radioactive, when in fact, materials become radioactive when radioactive dust is present on the material. Irradiated products are exposed to gamma radiation, that is photons that travel with a very short wavelength and a lot of power. Those same photons are transmitted by the sun as infra-red, visible light colors, ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays. There are no residual radioactive particles left on the food.

With gamma radiation, the energy released is strong enough to destroy any and all pathogens in the product. Plus, they travel through the container holding the food. So, you could package the food in a hermetically sealed container, and pass it through a gamma-ray emitter, and have raw meat, or raw milk, or raw veggies that are shelf stable, that is if they don't contain natural enzymes in the food that will break the food down.

If gamma radiation was used widespread, it would eliminate the need for as much refrigeration, and pressure canning, which often turns food to mush.

But we have shown time and again, that if we don't have the personal training and expertise in any area, we fear the technology and assign baseless assumptions on that technology.

We think we are so very clever, and yet we destroy our own planet, the one that we depend on for life. Green paper, and plastic cards are more important than the survival of our species.

Oh, wait, I'm now off-topic. This was about the quality of milk, and making it shelf stable, while still tasting like raw milk. I'm going away now.

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Old 04-15-2016, 06:55 PM   #22
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Oh, wait, I'm now off-topic. This was about the quality of milk, and making it shelf stable, while still tasting like raw milk. I'm going away now.

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I was thinking you posted on the wrong thread!
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:15 AM   #23
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I won't even taste milk after the sell by date ewww.
That is very wasteful. 1 out of every 6 children in the US go to bed hungry while you are pouring perfectly good milk down the kitchen sink?
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:30 AM   #24
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Hmm, I never said I pour good milk down the sink, just that I won't drink it after the sell by date. I'm not the only person drinking milk here.
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:32 PM   #25
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When I lived in Tacoma, there was a store run by a local dairy right near my home. The milk was pulled milk with the present date on it. The owner told me that by law they couldn't sell it to the big stores, but it was still perfectly safe to use for at least five days after the "pull by" date. After that you should check it for the next three day. I always bought this milk and never once had a problem. Saved a ton of money doing so. I also bought a lot of their other products that they failed to sell to the big supermarkets. Never a problem.

They had a large sign explaining their policy regarding "pulled by" dates. I wish there was such a store near me today. I would be their biggest customer.

Many years ago housewives demanded to know when the foods they bought were produced. So the food industry came up with a date on cans stating the date of production. A lot of people took that date to mean it was out of date just while sitting on the shelf in the store. So they changed the date to a couple of years down the road. What that date means is it loses some of the quality. Not a "toss it" date.

We are getting more savvy when purchasing our food. Today, my favorite thing to purchase is a "Manager's Special" in the meat department. Great prices for the same meat that would be aged for weeks in a fancy pants restaurant.
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Old 05-08-2016, 02:38 PM   #26
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I tried freezing milk. It tends to separate when it thaws.

It does. Just have to shake it really hard.


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Old 05-08-2016, 05:37 PM   #27
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So, this happened: After Legalizing Raw Milk, Legislators Fall Ill From Drinking Raw Milk

Darn that USDA, trying to keep people healthy. Who do they think they are??

But, it probably wasn't the milk. Some people who didn't drink it also got sick and not everyone who drank it got sick.

West Virginia has some of the strictest rules about raw milk. I find them very reasonable. It is now legal, if you own a share in a cow, to receive raw milk from that cow. It's not like they will be selling raw milk at the supermarket.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:58 PM   #28
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When I lived in Tacoma, there was a store run by a local dairy right near my home. The milk was pulled milk with the present date on it. The owner told me that by law they couldn't sell it to the big stores, but it was still perfectly safe to use for at least five days after the "pull by" date. After that you should check it for the next three day. I always bought this milk and never once had a problem. Saved a ton of money doing so. I also bought a lot of their other products that they failed to sell to the big supermarkets. Never a problem.

They had a large sign explaining their policy regarding "pulled by" dates. I wish there was such a store near me today. I would be their biggest customer.

Many years ago housewives demanded to know when the foods they bought were produced. So the food industry came up with a date on cans stating the date of production. A lot of people took that date to mean it was out of date just while sitting on the shelf in the store. So they changed the date to a couple of years down the road. What that date means is it loses some of the quality. Not a "toss it" date.

We are getting more savvy when purchasing our food. Today, my favorite thing to purchase is a "Manager's Special" in the meat department. Great prices for the same meat that would be aged for weeks in a fancy pants restaurant.
I always look for "Manager's special" meat, too It's great! People always think that beef should be pink. The best beef is brownish.
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:30 PM   #29
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But, it probably wasn't the milk. Some people who didn't drink it also got sick and not everyone who drank it got sick.

West Virginia has some of the strictest rules about raw milk. I find them very reasonable. It is now legal, if you own a share in a cow, to receive raw milk from that cow. It's not like they will be selling raw milk at the supermarket.
Come on - the fact that not everyone got sick from it does not mean raw milk is safe to consume. There are a lot of variables involved. The fact is that a lot of them *did* get sick soon after consuming it. Coincidence? Not likely.
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Old 05-08-2016, 07:26 PM   #30
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I sold raw milk for close to 20 years years. I was very careful that everything was very clean. I milked by machine and went through the process of cleaning the stainless steel container and the hoses daily with the chemicals recommended. I broke the hoses apart once a week and scurbbed them all with a brush that could be pulled through. I cleaned all the fittings with a brush. My milking herd was healthy. Nobody ever got sick.

Still, if you want to be safe I suggest that you buy pasteurized. If you are willing to take a small risk know your supplier and his methods of sanitation. Take a tour of the place. If it doesn't seem good to you don't buy.
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Old 05-08-2016, 07:41 PM   #31
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I sold raw milk for close to 20 years ... Nobody ever got sick.
There is no way you can know that. Most people don't recognize mild food poisoning for what it is. They'll say they got the 24-hour flu. There's no such thing.
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Old 05-08-2016, 07:59 PM   #32
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There is no way you can know that. Most people don't recognize mild food poisoning for what it is. They'll say they got the 24-hour flu. There's no such thing.
Fine then. It is impossible for me to prove that nobody got sick. To my knowledge nobody got sick. I sold my milk to many people who had babies who couldn't tolerate formula or cow's milk. Never had a complaint, only recommendations.
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:02 PM   #33
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Come on - the fact that not everyone got sick from it does not mean raw milk is safe to consume. There are a lot of variables involved. The fact is that a lot of them *did* get sick soon after consuming it. Coincidence? Not likely.
Come on - don't cherry pick the part of my statement that is irrelevant. The fact that a number of people got sick and didn't drink the milk was the important bit. It's an improbable coincidence, but less so when people who didn't drink the milk got sick.

Charleston Gazette-Mail | Results of raw milk inquiry at WV Capitol inconclusive, DHHR says
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:44 PM   #34
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Come on - don't cherry pick the part of my statement that is irrelevant. The fact that a number of people got sick and didn't drink the milk was the important bit. It's an improbable coincidence, but less so when people who didn't drink the milk got sick.

Charleston Gazette-Mail | Results of raw milk inquiry at WV Capitol inconclusive, DHHR says
Too bad the legislator who gave out the raw milk flushed the remainder down the toilet so it couldn't be tested. That seems like a strange thing to do if he was so confident it was safe to drink.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:05 PM   #35
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My first 17 summers were spent drinking mostly raw milk. We walked over to Jensen's farm twice a week, early in the morning, with our own jugs and Chester filled them straight out of the milking machine. This was in Wisconsin in the 1950's. Never got the tiniest bit ill.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:26 PM   #36
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Well, I'm convinced. All it takes is a few anecdotes, right? Scientists are so clueless,
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:01 AM   #37
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My first 17 summers were spent drinking mostly raw milk. We walked over to Jensen's farm twice a week, early in the morning, with our own jugs and Chester filled them straight out of the milking machine. This was in Wisconsin in the 1950's. Never got the tiniest bit ill.
Same here, my sister and I used to walk to the farm next to my grandmother's and get a couple jugs similar to this one.

We never had a problem but we never ran into any scientists from the USDA along the way.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:44 AM   #38
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The problem, as i understand it, isn't from the milk itself, but from contaminants that may be on the teet, or on the milking equipment, pails and such. The milk comes out cleaned by the immune system of the cow, just a mother's milk is pristine for the nursing baby in humans. Listeria and its cousins are introduced to milk, and other foods through processing equipment. Pasteurization destroys the nasy critters before they get into your gut.

Milk could be bombarded with gamma, or x-rays to destroy the microbes as well, but people tend to be afraid of anything that's been irradiated, not understanding the process, or the science behind it. I do know that boiling milk changes the flavor, and IMO, not in a good way if I want to simply drink the milk.

Personally, I would like to find out what freeze-dried milk tastes like. It would be shelf stable, and should taste like ordinary milk when water is again added. At least, that's my first expectation.

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Old 05-09-2016, 09:21 AM   #39
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No. The skin in and around the teats and ducts can be contaminated.

http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/1/93.full

Quote: "Commensal microflora. Typically, unless there is an intramammary infection or an animal has a systemic disease, milk in the mammary gland at the site of its production does not contain bacteria. However, as milk is excreted, it can become contaminated with bacteria that live as commensal microflora on the teat skin or on the epithelial lining of the teat canal, the duct that conveys the milk from the mammary gland to the teat orifice. In cattle, bacteria of the genera Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Bacillus, Micrococcus, and Corynebacterium and, occasionally, coliforms colonize this location [5]. Thus, even in a healthy animal, by the time the milk leaves the animal, it may contain numerous bacterial contaminants."


http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmil...d-answers.html

Quote: "I know people who have been drinking raw milk for years, and they never got sick. Why is that?

The presence of germs in raw milk is unpredictable. The number of disease-causing germs in the raw milk may be too low to make a person sick for a long time, and later high enough to make the same person seriously ill. For some people, drinking contaminated raw milk just once could make them really sick. Even if you trust the farmer and your store, raw milk is never a guaranteed safe product. Drinking raw milk means taking a real risk of getting very sick."


http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/0...dren-raw-milk/


Pasteurized milk is not boiled. It's heated briefly to 161F.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:34 AM   #40
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What I and other good producers used to do was wash the teat's with a mild cholrox solution, then dry them with single use paper towels, and milk the first few squirts of milk into what is called a strip cup. It's just a little aluminum cup with a fine mesh screen over it. If the milk had any clots in it it could be an early sign of mastitis. After milking we would spray the teat opening with another antibacterial agent. We's also keep udderc clipped free of hair. The big cow dairys use a blow torch to burn it off. No kidding!
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