Camembert or Brie

[blissful]

Okay well this part of the forum is more dead than most...yikes.

So I was thinking of making some brie. It's not 'hard to make', it's particular.
Brie and Camembert are similar cheeses, one is bigger one is smaller and they both grow some white fungus on the outside, a white rind, while the interior begins to liquefy under the rind, and the paste remains pasty unless the fungus is left overly long and then it liquefies the entire cheese. If it gets overly ripe, it starts to smell of ammonia, that is the hallmark of an overly ripe brie for instance.

So I'm going to make it because it has mushroomy flavors and smells, and that is something we like. The cheese grows its mushroomy rind in the first few weeks in a cheese cave at 55 degrees F and high humidity. Then, it is wrapped in special paper, or parchment and foil, to continue to age in a normal refrigerator for a number of weeks.

Since I don't actually KNOW we'll like it, I asked DH to pick some up so he can taste it and then we can decide if we actually want to make it. So he did! I could kiss him for that. He said he'd make some molds for it, so I can make 6 brie from 2 gallons of milk.

So I want to bake some brie. First we'll have a little bit of it, cold so he knows what it tastes like cold. Then I want to bake it. I pulled out some pastry, um, puff pastry I had frozen tonight. Tomorrow I want to bake it. Since I have never done this previously, I wanted to ask you all for advice. How thick should I roll out the puff pastry, and how to bake it, if you know. Is this something you like or do you prefer brie to be cold or room temperature?

 

[caseydog]

I like brie... a lot. I think, if you are to bake it in puff pastry, you should go thin - very thin. I have only eaten brie on thin crackers, like water crackers. It is commonly served like that in First Class on airlines, which is where I have mostly encountered it. I think there is a reason it is often served that way. I think if your "bread" is too thick or flavorful, you will lose the flavor of that kind of cheese.

So, my suggestion is a thin layer of pastry, very crisp, and let the cheese be the star of the sho.

CD

 

[Kayelle]

I adore baked brie but my only experience with it was a disaster. I over baked the puff pastry encrusted brie on a rimless cookie sheet and it ended in a puddle on the bottom of my oven. Aaaaack!!

We wanted to smuggle some Camembert from France in our luggage. There's a whole story about this, but the short version is the sniffer dogs didn't detect it because we bought an air tight container for it that cost twice the price of the cheese.

 

[Souschef]

I adore baked brie but my only experience with it was a disaster. I over baked the puff pastry encrusted brie on a rimless cookie sheet and it ended in a puddle on the bottom of my oven. Aaaaack!!

We wanted to smuggle some Camembert from France in our luggage. There's a whole story about this, but the short version is the sniffer dogs didn't detect it because we bought an air tight container for it that cost twice the price of the cheese.

[FONT=&quot]CHEESE STORY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now for the cheese story! We discovered, much to our dismay that as our Camembert ripened, it gave off a powerful smell! We kept it in our refrigerator and had it in a zip lock bag and covered in aluminum foil. That helped some, but it was still pungent. None of the little towns we stopped at had markets to buy more zip lock bags until we got to Dijon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our tour manager told me of a market named Lafayette 4 blocks away that should have something. I found the place, and much to my dismay, it was a 6 floor department store! I found the directory, and headed up to house wares on the top floor. They did not have any bags, but I found a round Tupperware that would work. It cost as much as the 2 wheels of cheese, but we had to do something.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kayelle told me it was going in my suitcase on the way home because she did not want her clothes smelled up!
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]My only concern about going through customs and immigration was the cheese. I could see one of the beagles they use taking one sniff and rolling over! The cheese container did its job and I did not have any stinky clothes.[/FONT]

 

[blissful]

OMG thank you so much for the lovely stories of brie/camembert, yes, I'll try it, cold and then baked with a thin 'bread'......we have to put it off for tomorrow but I'll check back with everyone in 2 days, when we make it. I'm so looking forward to it, so much exploration of flavors.

 

[Kayelle]

Bliss, I just remembered from long ago another way I've served baked brie with great success.
Hollow out a small round loaf of bread. Save the bread chunks to be toasted for eating the cheese. Brush garlic butter inside the hollowed out bread shell and stuff it with layers of brie and honey toasted sliced almonds.The bread bowl can be torn into pieces for scooping as the cheese disappears. Very impressive, and delicious.

 

[medtran49]

I adore baked brie but my only experience with it was a disaster. I over baked the puff pastry encrusted brie on a rimless cookie sheet and it ended in a puddle on the bottom of my oven. Aaaaack!!

We wanted to smuggle some Camembert from France in our luggage. There's a whole story about this, but the short version is the sniffer dogs didn't detect it because we bought an air tight container for it that cost twice the price of the cheese.

You know you are allowed to bring home a certain amount of duty free cheese, right? I think it was around 2 pounds per person, if not a little more. We brought home loads of parm R. From Italy and Craig brought home a bunch of different cheeses from France. It's veges and uncooked meats that are not allowed.

 

[buckytom]

That reminds me of the I love Lucy episode where Lucy smuggled home cheeses from Italy in Ricky's band's instruments.

We love baked brie, especially baked in pastry served on a pool of berry coulis.

I've only made it once after having it many times in restaurants, but it was from store bought puff pastry. I'm not sure how thick that was. But it was baked at around 400 for 30 minutes or so, until it turned golden brown (it was eggwashed first).

 

[Kayelle]

You know you are allowed to bring home a certain amount of duty free cheese, right? I think it was around 2 pounds per person, if not a little more. We brought home loads of parm R. From Italy and Craig brought home a bunch of different cheeses from France. It's veges and uncooked meats that are not allowed.

That may be true Med, but how did you both manage to keep from smelling like a cheese factory in transit?

 

[CraigC]

That may be true Med, but how did you both manage to keep from smelling like a cheese factory in transit?

If well wrapped it does't smell so bad. The last time I brought back cheese from France, I had more than allowed, but the US Customs Agent just yelled "Stinky cheese coming thru", and sent me on my way. The reason I had more was the price if the didn't have to cut the 1/2 wheels up.

 

[medtran49]

Those little beagle noses are extremely sensitive. The last time I came home from Italy, I had carried an apple for a snack in my bag I kept in my purse for shopping for a few hours the morning BEFORE we got on a plane the next day to come home so it was probably close to 38 hours gone by the time we got to Customs. Guess who got beagled and had to have her purse and shopping bag with the non food items I was declaring hand searched, but not the luggage with the other food items in it. I'm sure the beagle knew you had cheese, they just weren't trained to alert to it. I told the beagle's handler about the cheese , olive oil, and wine in the luggage, which I had declared on my form, and the apple. She said it was the residual apple smell, then proceeded with her very brief and cursory search.

 

[msmofet]

That reminds me of the I love Lucy episode where Lucy smuggled home cheeses from Italy in Ricky's band's instruments.

We love baked brie, especially baked in pastry served on a pool of berry coulis.

I've only made it once after having it many times in restaurants, but it was from store bought puff pastry. I'm not sure how thick that was. But it was baked at around 400 for 30 minutes or so, until it turned golden brown (it was eggwashed first).

That was a whole provolone she initially had disguised as a baby I think.

I had baked Brie years ago at a little cafe on cedar lane in Teaneck. It was wrapped in phylo dough. Crispy, flaky golden outside and soft warm cheese. Only had it once and it was good. Now I just eat it cool to room temperature. I have been contemplating using Trader Joe's mini individual Brie.

 

[Kayelle]

That was a whole provolone she initially had disguised as a baby I think.

I had baked Brie years ago at a little cafe on cedar lane in Teaneck. It was wrapped in phylo dough. Crispy, flaky golden outside and soft warm cheese. Only had it once and it was good. Now I just eat it cool to room temperature. I have been contemplating using Trader Joe's mini individual Brie.

I've been meaning to thank you for turning me onto these little delights!
I love them, and they'd be ultra fancy in baked phylo.

 

[blissful]

One of the differences between camembert and brie, is size. I know we can't eat 10 oz of cheese in one sitting so I'm aiming to make those little bries like you are talking about.

We (dh and I) are working up plans to make some small molds and we still haven't figured out what to use just yet. They don't need bottoms and they need to start at 4 inches tall and probably 4 inches across and they need to be easy to clean. Hoops kind of.

When we try them, Kayelle, I'll give some weight to hollowing out some bread to bake them in. Being hungry for brie today, is tough to take when brie takes 2 months to make. URG.

 

[rick.fleck]

. . .
Brie and Camembert are similar cheeses, one is bigger one is smaller and they both grow some white fungus on the outside, a white rind, while the interior begins to liquefy under the rind, and the paste remains pasty unless the fungus is left overly long and then it liquefies the entire cheese. . . .

One minor point of clarification. The white fuzz on the surface is caused by the bacterium, Brevibacterium linens - not a fungus.

Put some fig jam on the brie, and then wrap in puff pastry, brush with an egg wash, and bake just until the pastry is golden brown. It is delicious.

Brie at room temperature on water crackers or sour dough bread is also excellent. Unlike many other ripened cheeses, you want to eat the rind. That is where the flavor is.

As with most cheeses, you do not eat brie cold. It should be either at room temperature or baked.

 

[blissful]

One minor point of clarification. The white fuzz on the surface is caused by the bacterium, Brevibacterium linens - not a fungus.

There are at least a half dozen well known bacteria used in cheese making, linens is just one, of the thermo, meso, flora danica, propionic shermanii, and penicillin roqueforti.
Brevibacterium linens is a red/orange mold, sometimes beige (known as the foot odor bacterium) and most of the time it makes a stinky cheese and has nothing to do with brie or camembert if you can in any way control the terroir (the native population of bacteria in your environment). B. linens is well known for Limburger and other red/orange mold cheeses. I have only made 3 cheeses using b. linens.

The exterior of a white rind cheese is characteristic of geotrichum candidum, found in Kefir, page 187 of The Art of Natural Cheesemaking by David Asher.

If you had in fact ever made cheese you would know that each type of bacteria/culture along with with each type of process, produces a different cheese and b. linens has nothing to do with brie, if you can help it at all.

 

[rick.fleck]

There are at least a half dozen well known bacteria used in cheese making, linens is just one, of the thermo, meso, flora danica, propionic shermanii, and penicillin roqueforti.
Brevibacterium linens is a red/orange mold, sometimes beige (known as the foot odor bacterium) and most of the time it makes a stinky cheese and has nothing to do with brie or camembert if you can in any way control the terroir (the native population of bacteria in your environment). B. linens is well known for Limburger and other red/orange mold cheeses. I have only made 3 cheeses using b. linens.

The exterior of a white rind cheese is characteristic of geotrichum candidum, found in Kefir, page 187 of The Art of Natural Cheesemaking by David Asher.

If you had in fact ever made cheese you would know that each type of bacteria/culture along with with each type of process, produces a different cheese and b. linens has nothing to do with brie, if you can help it at all.

Both B linens and Geotrichum candidum are permitted in the standard for brie. http://www.fao.org/fao-who-codexali...tandards%2FCODEX+STAN+277-1973%2FCXS_277e.pdf

 

[blissful]

Here is some unintended geotrichum candidum on one of my first batches of cheese that came from the native environment of bacteria.

I wanted to add, that I've only made 29 types of cheese and only 81 4-gallon batches, so I have only learned to make cheese this past 2 years.

 

[Steve Kroll]

[FONT=&quot]CHEESE STORY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now for the cheese story! We discovered, much to our dismay that as our Camembert ripened, it gave off a powerful smell! We kept it in our refrigerator and had it in a zip lock bag and covered in aluminum foil. That helped some, but it was still pungent. None of the little towns we stopped at had markets to buy more zip lock bags until we got to Dijon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our tour manager told me of a market named Lafayette 4 blocks away that should have something. I found the place, and much to my dismay, it was a 6 floor department store! I found the directory, and headed up to house wares on the top floor. They did not have any bags, but I found a round Tupperware that would work. It cost as much as the 2 wheels of cheese, but we had to do something.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kayelle told me it was going in my suitcase on the way home because she did not want her clothes smelled up!
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]My only concern about going through customs and immigration was the cheese. I could see one of the beagles they use taking one sniff and rolling over! The cheese container did its job and I did not have any stinky clothes.[/FONT]

The Galeries Lafayette in Paris? I've been there a couple times myself. The wine shop is my favorite department, but they also have a gourmet area that's a food lover's paradise. 50 varieties of mustard? No problem. Fresh truffles? They have 'em. Top shelf caviar? Oui, oui.

As for cheese in France, if you happen to be strolling through Paris on a warm spring day, it's easy to find a "fromagerie" using nothing more than your nose. I'm really surprised the sniffer dogs didn't pick up on it. They sure had no problem locating the Soppressata I tried to smuggle into the US from Italy!

 

[blissful]

It turned out HORRIBLE....ha ha, just kidding around.

So last night I cut some pieces of brie to eat with sliced apples. It was room temperature and very nice. DH said it tasted mushroomy and that was a good description of the flavor. He also said it had hints of nuttiness. Those seem to describe it well. It is not a cheese with much salt and everything about it is subtle.

This morning I baked the rest of the brie in some puff pastry. 20 minutes at 400 degrees F in a thin layer of pastry. Served it with dates. The pastry had a little salt in it which helped the flavor and the dates, the sweetness was excellent with it. It was crispy on the outside, browned and flaky, and the middle was melted with the texture of a good grilled cheese sandwich. It was lovely all around. We decided we would make some brie in the future. Now we just have to invent some hoops/molds for small bries.