Rising issue

[Aria]

Alix only a suggestion: If you want to make your dough now and bake later, the refrigerator can hold dough made with water(except for plain bread dough)as long as 5 days. If milk, and at least 1/4 cup sugar are used, the limit is 3 days. To prepare dough, grease the top well, cover with moisture proof wrap and then a damp cloth. Keep the cloth damp. When you're ready to bake,shape the dough and let it rise until double, 1-1/2- to 2 hours. If you're called away while preparing dough, just pick up where you left off. Dough will wait as long as 15 minutes. If you can't shape dough after it has doubled, just punch it down to get out the air, cover and let rise again. The next rising will take less time.

 

[Alix]

Pbear, sorry, proofing was intended to mean rising in the oven. And as I have said, I turn my oven OFF and put the dough in to rise. Its always worked before, and I was puzzled this time about why it didn't. Thought perhaps there was too much residual heat in there and it killed the yeast. I have since learned my yeast is the culprit and while the best before date is a ways off...the yeast SUCKS.

Aria, thanks, and I may try a long rise (overnight or several days) at some point, but usually I like to do the bread for the day we want it.

May I just say thank you again to you all for your wonderful help? Skilletlicker, Pbear, Aria, Candocook, Kadesma, DinaFine you were all a huge help to me. Thank you so much.

 

[PBear42]

Okay, now I get it. FWIW, this is why I always proof yeast (in the sense I defined it) before mixing up the dough.

 

[subfuscpersona]

what was the yeast you used?

I have since learned my yeast is the culprit and while the best before date is a ways off...the yeast SUCKS.

hi Alix

just out of idle curiousity, what was the brand of yeast you were using (and, if you remember, what was the expiration date on the package)? Thanks!

 

[Alix]

It was bakipan yeast, and the date was early Jan/07. Sorry, can't give you a better date than that.

And Pbear, I think I will do that from now on. I just thought I'd read somewhere that you shouldn't do that with the active yeast.

 

[PBear42]

I've read plenty of sources that say you shouldn't need to proof modern yeast, but I don't think I've ever seen one that said it was a bad idea. I do have a vague recollection, though, of having read that it's not good to leave the proofed yeast sitting around for long (something about exhausting itself), so I always set up everything else, then proof just before mixing up the dough. FWIW, I've never collected statistics, but I'd say proofing shows a problem about one time in twenty (this includes low vigor, more often than outright dead). And my yeast never goes past expiration.

 

[Alix]

Perhaps thats what I read as well. Its not like I memorized it. LOL. In any case, I think I will be proofing the yeast more regularly now to be sure it is viable. I've learned MY lesson.

 

[subfuscpersona]

If your yeast is active dry yeast, then it should be dissolved in a little warm water prior to use. You only need to proof it if you think it is out-of-date. Click here for more information.

If your yeast is instant yeast (sometimes labeled "Bread Machine" yeast), then it is intended to be added to the dry ingredients. You should not dissolve it in water.

Other than these differences, you can substitute active dry yeast for instant yeast (and vice versa) if you adjust the amount slightly.

If the recipe calls for active dry yeast and you only have instant yeast, then reduce the amount by about 25% (for example, if the recipe calls for 1 tsp active dry yeast, you would use 3/4 tsp instant yeast).

If the recipe calls for instant yeast and you only have active dry yeast, then increase the amount by about 25% (for example, if the recipe calls for 1 tsp instant yeast, you would use 1-1/4 tsp active dry yeast). For a conversion chart for yeast, click here

Yeast keeps best when stored in your freezer. That's where I store mine, in a zip lock bag to make sure that moisture doesn't get in once the packet or bag has been opened. Yeast stored this way can stay strong for several years, well past the expiration date, as numerous posters to this forum have pointed out over the years.

 

[Candocook]

In this recipe it doesn't matter.
The yeast I am using is probably years old--from Costco in that BIG package from when I used to make bread more regularly. It's been in the freezer.

 

[skilletlicker]

...
If the recipe calls for active dry yeast and you only have instant yeast, then reduce the amount by about 25% (for example, if the recipe calls for 1 tsp active dry yeast, you would use 3/4 tsp instant yeast).

If the recipe calls for instant yeast and you only have active dry yeast, then increase the amount by about 25% (for example, if the recipe calls for 1 tsp instant yeast, you would use 1-1/4 tsp active dry yeast). For a conversion chart for yeast, click here

...

This is such a minor point that it is hardly worth mentioning but, it is correct that you decrease by 25% when substituting instant for active dry. Going the opposite direction, however, you increase by 33%. It is easiest to see this by looking at the last line in the conversion chart.

 

[StirBlue]

Has anyone experienced using natural yeast? I saw a show featuring a baker using yeast he had made from cabbage leaves.

 

[skilletlicker]

I don't know about cabbage leaves, but there are some sourdough bakers here, which is natural yeast of course.

How did he go about making and harvesting the cabbage yeast?

 

[StirBlue]

Seems like he just wet the leaf with water and waited. He had a specialty bakery in New York. He showed some cabbage leaves in mason type jars.

 

[Mel!]

Hello Alix

U could try the following, to improve the rising.
A little more yeast
A little more sugar/honey
I often leave my bread, to rise in a 50C oven, for over an hour. If the oven is not warm enough, the yeast will not work.
Make sure the water u use, to mix the bread, is not so hot, that u cant put your finger in it, for 10 seconds.
Make sure u use as much liquid as u can. The wetter the dough, the more it seems to rise.
Put a bowl of water in the oven, when the bread is rising and baking.
When the bread is rising, put a cloth over the container it is in.

Mel

 

[DinaFine]

Has anyone experienced using natural yeast? I saw a show featuring a baker using yeast he had made from cabbage leaves.[

Hi Stirblue: I have made natural yeast by pureeing grapes and mixing them with flour and water and waiting for it to fement. I understand that you can do this with many types of fruit or vegetables, so why not cabbage leaves? i would probably grind them in a food processor first, but maybe there are other ways. Cabbage should be easy to ferment: Saurkraut would be an example.

I bake with only natural yeast now, which is a sourdough starter that I keep in the refrigerator, and I have had them going for a very long time, so they have had a chance to get strong, and I get very good results. I usually can have bread in two days, maybe three tops. If I know I cant get to it, I just put the kneaded dough in the refrigerator, and bAKE IT when I can. ]

 

[Mel!]

Hello Alix

I also noticed, when i am baking, that the heavier the bread, the less it rises. Bread with oatmeal and cracked wheat will not increase in size, as much as bread made with just white flour.

When i put something in the bread, which releases moisture, it also rises more. Examples of things which release moisture would be onions or apples.

Mel

 

[Mel!]

Hello Kadesma

I did not even know, that the bread would rise, without putting it in a very warm place.
One learns something new, everyday. This means i could make the bread, on Summer evenings and just leave it over night to rise, and then bake, in the morning. I think i will try that.
Does yours rise, without applying extra heat, in Winter?

Mel

 

[subfuscpersona]

Hello Kadesma

I did not even know, that the bread would rise, without putting it in a very warm place.
One learns something new, everyday. This means i could make the bread, on Summer evenings and just leave it over night to rise, and then bake, in the morning. I think i will try that.
Does yours rise, without applying extra heat, in Winter?
Mel

hi Mel,

Kadesma was making the point that bread will rise even if the temperature is cool (65-70 F), it just takes longer than if the temperature was a little warmer.

If you want it to rise overnight, put the bowl (covered with plastic wrap) in your refrigerator. Don't try an overnight rise letting the dough sitting on your counter, especially in summer. In warm or hot weather, the dough would ferment far too much left overnight this way, and your bread would end up tasting sour or too yeasty.

A slow rise in the bowl contributes to the flavor of many breads. Temperatures above 85 F bring their own challenges to bread baking, since the warmer temp (especially if climbing into the 90s) can make the bread rise too fast for good flavor development. In summer especially, the refrigerator rise is your friend.

FYI, yeast is deactivated (stops multiplying - goes dormant) at 40 F. Bread will continue to rise until the entire mass of dough reaches this temp. Bread should rise reliably if the temp in your kitchen is in the mid 50s F or higher (though honestly, the coldest my kitchen gets is the low 60s F).

The rate at which dough rises is also affected by the temperature of the liquid, as well as the room temp. If the temp is hot, you can use colder liquid in the beginning to slow the rise. If it is cold, use warmer liquid (warm - up to about 80 F - not hot, since it will kill off the yeast) to compensate for the lower temp in your kitchen.

 

[Candocook]

Hello Kadesma

I did not even know, that the bread would rise, without putting it in a very warm place.
One learns something new, everyday. This means i could make the bread, on Summer evenings and just leave it over night to rise, and then bake, in the morning. I think i will try that.
Does yours rise, without applying extra heat, in Winter?

Mel

Bread will rise in the refrigerator if the ingredients are active and "right". My bread rises on my counter at 64*.

 

[LindaB]

Alix,
Bread can be a pretty tricky thing. With a regular-rise type recipe the rise can take a couple of hours.
Have you ever tried a "cool-rise" recipe? If you have the time, you can do the mixing and kneading and let the dough rise in the fridge fro a few hours or even overnight. It's my favorite!
Linda