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Old 03-04-2017, 12:13 AM   #1
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Have a look at this!

My OH posted me this article:

'BBC News: Racist food photography: is social media fuelling cultural appropriation'

http./bbc.co.uk/news/blog/trending-39142260. Sorry I can't post the link, I always have difficulty uploading articles - but I seriously recommend you have a look at it, because it's a good area for discussion, and I look forward to viewing your comments. Happy reading.


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Old 03-04-2017, 05:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by di reston View Post
My OH posted me this article:

'BBC News: Racist food photography: is social media fuelling cultural appropriation'

http./bbc.co.uk/news/blog/trending-39142260. Sorry I can't post the link, I always have difficulty uploading articles - but I seriously recommend you have a look at it, because it's a good area for discussion, and I look forward to viewing your comments. Happy reading.


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Enough is never as good as a feast.
Here's the link - there were a couple of errors.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39142260
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Old 03-04-2017, 06:53 AM   #3
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Thank you so much Gotgarlic. This is not the first time you've corrected my errors, and I'm very grateful for that. I'm going to have to work much more on my computer ignorance, but I've always found it very difficult.

By the way, to change the subject, I'm in the process of writing a book on pasta in all its forms and ragù and pasta sauces. Got the contract just recently. It's a vast subject. The next tome is going to be on 'Street Food', but the research on that is going to be much much wider.

Wish me luck!

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Old 03-04-2017, 08:02 AM   #4
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I don't think people are doing it out of malice or bad intentions, I think its a combination of the ignorance of the people doing it, playing on the ignorance on everyone else. Also a marketing ploy playing on the ignorance of people to sell their product. recepies.

Throw chopsticks in a picture, serve it on a banana leaf and all of a sudden its Asian, or maybe even ' authentic' Asian cuisine. Few people are going to check the facts.

Unfortunately, those who are most familiar with what legitimately is Asian seem to either be offended, or question the validity of the articles, recipes ...

I like the one part of the article where someone posted a video on the proper way to eat Pho, and someone replied ' I guess us Asians have been eating it wrong for generations'.

And after that comment, they took the video down.

I thought that was a great comment to make them look like an ass.

I personally don't take offense to it, but who am I to say anything ( especially in this case cause Im not Asian). I'm also not an expert in food origen, and I don't travel much , so to me authentic ethnic food is what I order at whatever ethnic restaurant I happen to be in ( which makes me ignorant to what many of the true facts).

That being said, I'm also smart enough to do my research ( hopefully from reliable sources) before I would claim anything as being authentic. I would never put my name on anything if I didnt do my homework first.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:19 AM   #5
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In addition to what I said, If someone made a dish, tossed a piece of Matzoh and a dill pickle on it and claimed it to be authentic Jewish cuisine. I would not take it personally at all. Id laugh at the ignorance, gobble up the pickle as fast as I could and ask for more.

I think adding regional ingredients to a dish can make it appear more authentic. But even authenticity, there are so many different variations of so many dishes even in the country of their origins.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:15 AM   #6
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When I was a girl, my father used to take us to Liverpool's Chinese quarter for a Chinese meal. The menu was very limited - Sweet and Sour pork, fried rice and a few other 'Chinese' dishes. The world has moved on a great deal since then. The simple menu was clearly devised to do dishes that, back in the early 1960's, were considered exotic. The same was true of Indian restaurants - limited menu, plain rice, the restaurant interior decorated to represent and exotic place to be, and experience for first-time customers who had hardly any knowledge of Indian food. How the world has changed!

The restrictions that applied then, to a certain extent still apply now - because when people emigrate to another part of the world, they have to make do with the ingredients they can get hold of. So things change. It may well be that these introductions to a new culture were the start of globalisation. Immigrants applying for the citizenship of the new country they had settled in being one of the first signs. How the world has changed: global travel, goods being sold world wide, innovative dishes being produced in the best possible way to be similar to the tradional recipes used in the country of origin - 'fusion' cookery at its best. 'Tis said that chicken tikka masala was the result of a chef (some say in Birmingham UK, others say in Scotland), and is not truly Indian. But here we get to the polemic of 'what is truly Indian'. Does it mean that if you leave India and set up home abroad, the food you produce isn't properly Indian?


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Old 03-04-2017, 09:49 AM   #7
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I think people need to stop with all the feigned indignation. No matter what you do, someone, somewhere is going to be upset about it. I also take issue with the people who write stories like the one linked above, where the only goal is to try and dredge up a reaction from someone.

It would be more useful to channel one's outrage toward the things in life you really should be outraged about. Food photography isn't one of those things.

Instead, maybe focus some of that energy into something positive, like helping someone who doesn't have the means to put food on the table at all.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Steve Kroll View Post
I think people need to stop with all the feigned indignation. No matter what you do, someone, somewhere is going to be upset about it. I also take issue with the people who write stories like the one linked above, where the only goal is to try and dredge up a reaction from someone.

It would be more useful to channel one's outrage toward the things in life you really should be outraged about. Food photography isn't one of those things.

Instead, maybe focus some of that energy into something positive, like helping someone who doesn't have the means to put food on the table at all.
I agree 100%
The only thing that annoys me ( although according to my wife, everything annoys me), is when people claim to be an expert in a certain cuisine, but then do or say something that is just not factual.

Do I really care, not really, but if you claim to be an expert, at least do some research ( from reliable sources) to back your claims up.

That being said, as long as it tastes good, and the recipe is printed accurately, what do I care. Odds are Im going to change it up myself after I made it a few times.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:19 AM   #9
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I'm sorry you were offended Steve - and I have to say 1) I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say, with all due respect. 2) My point was NOT intended to offend. 3) I am ALWAYS aware of the fact that there are millions of people who have difficult lives - while this is not really part of this thread, I have to tell you that I support quite a few charities that help people who are far less fortunate than I am - the charities range from help for disabled people to refugees, to food parcels for people here who are going through hard times. I am more than aware of the privileges I have in my own personal life. These things I do are not part of DC, so I never talk about them with anyone in the NG: I am a practising Christian, and I take it very much amiss that you you should make spurious assumptions about someone who sticks to the rules of the NG and doesn't like to make public on any scale the things I do to help people less fortunate than I am. You completely misread me.


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Old 03-04-2017, 10:30 AM   #10
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I'm sorry you were offended Steve - and I have to say 1) I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say, with all due respect. 2) My point was NOT intended to offend.
Huh? Um.... I'm not offended. That's my point. I'm telling you my opinion of the article. Isn't that what you wanted... a discussion?
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:47 AM   #11
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Di, I think Steve was referring to the writer of the article you posted, not to you personally.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:55 AM   #12
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Di, I think Steve was referring to the writer of the article you posted, not to you personally.
Correct.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:30 AM   #13
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The author of the article on BBC News clearly does not understand what racism is. According to the Oxford dictionary:

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

I hardly think that not making food according to someone's idea of what is authentic is racist.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:45 AM   #14
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You're absolutely right. I've always been afraid of treading on people's toes. It was Larry's post that got my back up a bit. However, this is Discusscooking, so let's continue.....where do you get your reliable sources from? Cookery books?
photographs? Other people? Does 'reliable' mean 'it depends on who published the recipe' or 'does the recipe work for me' or 'how can I tweak it' ? Everything changes according to taste, so for me the pretty pictures of appealing food don't really mean that much. For example, I couldn't make a curry in Italy without bringing the spices from England - here hot is just chilli.
There is a small community of Chinese residents who cultivate the nearest vegetables (some are the same, like bean sprouts), but a spring roll, while nicely done isn't quite the same. Non of all that means it's no good. In the UK you couldn't make a truffle risotto, it has to be a porcini risotto, unless you buy - at great expense - a tiny jar of preserved or dried truffles. My point is, that wherever you are in the world, you adapt to your surroundings.

Finally, when you live in another country, be it Europe, the USA, and all the other predominately white communities, do you really think that, as the article says, 'we need to break away from the idea that white and western is the base standard for media portrayals - whether in food, film, literature etc - and start trusting and hiring people of colour to represent themseves'.

Do you accommodate this view? Personally I think that this has already happened and has been around for many years now. Multicultural communities have been around for a long time now, so has their food. I remember when the first Italian restaurant opened in Liverpool in 1962, when I had just started at the University there. The food was anything but Italian, but the atmosphere was great. It was only when I went to Rome with my parents in 1963 that I found out what Italian food was really like.

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Old 03-04-2017, 11:57 AM   #15
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If I were traveling to a specific area, I would definitely want something as authentic as possible. I think that would enhance the trip. I actually hate when I travel and see a string a chain restaurants. It takes away from the uniqueness of being where ever you are .

I usually try to contact someone who is from the region Im going to visit, to get their personal input on places i should experience what might give me a more local feel ( or taste).

In my home town, Italian is the Italian restaurant I go to , just as Chinese , Mexican, Indian are the local restaurants i go to. As long as it tastes good, and meets up to my expectations of whatever cuisine I'm dining on that day, Im happy.

I do like watching some of the traveling cooking shows where they don't necessarily visit a restaurant, or a famous chef, but just a local family, hang out with them, watch them cook some of their traditional family recipes passed on from generation to generation.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:01 PM   #16
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You're absolutely right. I've always been afraid of treading on people's toes. It was Larry's post that got my back up a bit.
And just to clear the air, My response, too, was my take of what was written in the article and the authors intent. Nothing personal towards anyone, other than my own opinion on the subject. Discussion forums are based on opinions, and that was my opinion. No offense taken , and surely I hope no one was offended by anything I said, clearly not my intentions.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:49 PM   #17
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...Finally, when you live in another country, be it Europe, the USA, and all the other predominately white communities, do you really think that, as the article says, 'we need to break away from the idea that white and western is the base standard for media portrayals - whether in food, film, literature etc - and start trusting and hiring people of colour to represent themselves'...

What is important is to have people who are educated in the cuisine and culture they are presenting. Their color is not important.

A perfect example is Rick Bayless a white American who is meticulous in representing Mexican cuisines accurately. He closes his restaurant every year and takes his restaurant staff for a trip to Mexico specifically to learn the local cuisines so they can be prepared and presented accurately.

I have no issue with non-authentic dishes in a particular style (Asian-style, Mexican style, etc) as long as they are presented as such. In such recipes I see an opportunity to enjoy certain flavors I like rather than in recreating an authentic dish.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:51 PM   #18
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What is important is to have people who are educated in the cuisine and culture they are presenting. Their color is not important.

A perfect example is Rick Bayless a white American who is meticulous in representing Mexican cuisines accurately. He closes his restaurant every year and takes his restaurant staff for a trip to Mexico specifically to learn the local cuisines so they can be prepared and presented accurately.

I have no issue with non-authentic dishes in a particular style (Asian-style, Mexican style, etc) as long as they are presented as such. In such recipes I see an opportunity to enjoy certain flavors I like rather than in recreating an authentic dish.
+1..
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Steve Kroll View Post
I think people need to stop with all the feigned indignation. No matter what you do, someone, somewhere is going to be upset about it. I also take issue with the people who write stories like the one linked above, where the only goal is to try and dredge up a reaction from someone.

It would be more useful to channel one's outrage toward the things in life you really should be outraged about. Food photography isn't one of those things.

Instead, maybe focus some of that energy into something positive, like helping someone who doesn't have the means to put food on the table at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tenspeed View Post
The author of the article on BBC News clearly does not understand what racism is. According to the Oxford dictionary:

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

I hardly think that not making food according to someone's idea of what is authentic is racist.

I could not agree more.


But it seems these days that key words are use to garner attention rather then present facts.

I'll shut up now.
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Old 03-04-2017, 03:20 PM   #20
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...In addition to what I said, If someone made a dish, tossed a piece of Matzoh and a dill pickle on it and claimed it to be authentic Jewish cuisine. I would not take it personally at all. Id laugh at the ignorance, gobble up the pickle as fast as I could and ask for more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kroll View Post
I think people need to stop with all the feigned indignation. No matter what you do, someone, somewhere is going to be upset about it....
In my opinion, it's a sad byproduct of the popularity of the internet and social media. I'll admit to being an old furt. Still, I'm active on Facebook and Instagram - they are a great way to stalk my kids keep up on the activities of family and friends. Sadly, I feel it is also a place people haunt to find things that seem to offend them so that they can rant about it.

I think it's safe to say that more than half of us who are active on DC are probably 40 years old or older. I think our generations have thicker skins than younger people. Most of the (feigned) outrage I see on Facebook is from the 40-and-under crowd. Too bad, too, because always being on the lookout for some way you or someone else might get offended is a pretty sad way to live.



Quote:
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...I do like watching some of the traveling cooking shows where they don't necessarily visit a restaurant, or a famous chef, but just a local family, hang out with them, watch them cook some of their traditional family recipes passed on from generation to generation.
OMG, Larry, have you ever seen Loving Spoonfuls on ION-TV? It is sooo cheesy, and yet absolutely delightful! The full episodes are also on Hulu and Amazon Prime. There is an episode or two on Youtube, plus a number of favorite short clips. Enjoy!
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