Poor Service

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I consider it bad service when a restaurant takes your reservation for a specific time and then you wait almost an hour to be seated. That happened to my family of 8 at a hibachi styled place. It was Valentine's Day and all the restaurants even the mediocre ones are packed on that day. That's why I made our reservations nearly 2 weeks in advanced and then double checked just to be sure that they still had them. They did. Also hibachi table places serve 8 at a time and only bring in new diners when the table is empty. Since their food is excellent and my granddaughter loves seeing the chef do his act and make fire that's where we wanted to go. We weren't the only ones who had had reservations and were made to wait for a long time. The reason we were given was that they had served people who had come in earlier off the streets and they were still here. Guess what? That only made the natives more hostile. Unfortunately, there was NO other restaurant that we could have gone to esp. with 8 hungry people. The management knew we were stuck and got an earful from all of us. We eventually got seated and the rest of the evening went great.
 
I have been to restaurants as a walk in, seen empty tables, and told they were reserved. I guess they knew when to fill a table and when to hold it so those with reservations didn't have to wait.
If I had reservations and had to wait like that I would have given them an earful as well. After all isn't the point of making reservations to guarantee yourself a table at a certain time so you don't have to wait for an opening??

Feels kinda like car rentals, made a reservation walked in and was told they didn't have our car. Then they tell us a reservation isn't really a reservation and doesn't actually hold a car but rather just gives them an idea of when to stop renting cars....???
 
Feels kinda like car rentals, made a reservation walked in and was told they didn't have our car. Then they tell us a reservation isn't really a reservation and doesn't actually hold a car but rather just gives them an idea of when to stop renting cars....???
This reminds me of the Seinfeld bit. "You know how to take the reservation. You just don't know how to hold the reservation.

My problem is that I like food too much so I am willing to go back to a restaurant if the service stinks if the food is good enough. I am not willing to not satisfy my want just to not give them the business they do not deserve. If the food is just OK then it is easier for me to not return, but if I really like the food then I will put up with a lot. I will make it known to management though so that they can correct it if they want.
 
Surely bad service isn't confined to "stateside" :( And Ramsay's restaurant better have both good food and good service.

No it isn't, but this was my (limited) experience. Ramsays did. couldn't fasult the food & the serveice really was a credit - friendly & efficient (have done a review on my homepage). I realise Europe is different from the states & it really hurts to have to pay for something (bad service) which just isn't up to scratch. I have worked as a waitress amongst other things through university so I do understand both sides. I think we are lucky here as service & taxes are included in the price, which I suppose is as broad is as long, but i don't feel obliged to leave extra & complain if necessary, which even in France is listened to!
 
As many have said, I question why the service was poor. If it is on the server, it shows in the tip. If it is on the kitchen staff, I'm not afraid to ask the server to speak to the manager regarding the issue. For example, I got a steak at a non-steakhouse (a mistakem I know, but regardless) and had asked for medium to medium well. It came out looking nicely cooked, but when I cut into it, it was raw. Server's problems? Not at all. She saw my disgust and came over to see what was wrong. She saw the meat essentially bleeding and commented how that's not near medium well. She took it back (I had eaten the rest of the plate, veggies and pilaf), blasted into the kitchen and hollered "Who the *BLEEP* is responsible for this?!?" I was impressed with that. So the manager comes over and offers a dollar off. I couldn't believe it. The veggies and pilaf I did eat weren't worth the dollar taken off, let alone the steak I never touched. For some reason, the manager was called away for something else, so I was left standing waiting to pay. My server saw this and came up to ring us out. She asked what the manager had said, so I honestly answered a buck off. The server was appalled, and took that meal off the bill completely. I thanked her for her kindness, and on top of the tip she had already earned, tipped her the full value of the meal she took off the bill.
 
There is a difference between bad service and trouble in the kitchen. It's usually easy enough to tell where the problems originate.
To me, good service means you are seated, given menus and then given a few moments to look at it. The server should return within 10 minutes, depending on the establishment. Beverages should arrive during that time, or very very soon after that. A waitperson can be friendly without being overly familiar. Once the order is taken, the time it takes to arrive is important. If it arrives cold, it's the servers fault. If it's overcooked or undercooked, that is a kitchen problem. If it's wrong, (wrong side, wrong sauce) that's a wait/server error. If something is missing, that's also a wait/server problem. How any errors are handled are a determining factor for the amount of tip. The waiter should return at least once, and twice if possible during the meal. Plates should be removed once empty. You shouldn't have to hunt your cheque down.

I realize that dining establishments can be understaffed, but, frankly, that's not my problem. If an establishment cannot handle another table or another ticket, they shouldn't seat me. If they seat me, I'm entitled to a pleasant dining experience complete with professional service. That's what I'm paying for. If I bought a dress that had one seam left unsewn, I wouldn't keep it, opting to sew it myself, because the factory where it was made was understaffed.
 
...I realize that dining establishments can be understaffed, but, frankly, that's not my problem. If an establishment cannot handle another table or another ticket, they shouldn't seat me. If they seat me, I'm entitled to a pleasant dining experience complete with professional service. That's what I'm paying for. If I bought a dress that had one seam left unsewn, I wouldn't keep it, opting to sew it myself, because the factory where it was made was understaffed.
I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you're right. I love the analogy!

:)Barbara
 
jumping in late...

I usually over tip if the server is earnest and tries. I know too many people in the service industry not to understand the importance of tips.

If they are incompotent but trying I am ok. If they are rude and seem bothered to do thier job this makes me angry.

There are bartenders and servers in many of the "hipster" bars and cafes in my area who seem to think their job description is to chat with their friends and pour you a beer or take an order when they get around to it if they feel like it. This makes me crazy... you are WORKING at a JOB do it. This is when my tips start getting small.
 
I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you're right. I love the analogy!

:)Barbara

If I bought a dress with a problem I would return it, I think just about anyone would. Then again if I bought a dress and it wasn't for DW... well that is a whole nother issue...
But I have never met anyone, before you guys, that would be OK with being told "I am sorry you can't eat here because two of my waitress' just called in sick".
Nope, I think more realistically that would start a whole nother argument, and I imagine a lot of people would be put off and not go back. Better to risk someone waiting an extra amount of time for service and being agitated then stomping out after being told that and never coming back.
There is a lot of risk in the restaurant business, having worked there I guess I can understand where they are coming from. Seating them is a risk, they may or may not come back. Turning them away is lost business, you can't get that back no matter what you do.
I really think anyone who places such demanding and exacting standards on people in any service industry really should be made to spend some time in that service industry. It has a tendency to change people, which is probably why so many are so quick to dismiss the idea or find any excuse they can to invalidate the idea.
Walk a mile in their shoes so to speak... worst case you are a mile away and have their shoes to boot!
 
...But I have never met anyone, before you guys, that would be OK with being told "I am sorry you can't eat here because two of my waitress' just called in sick".

...I really think anyone who places such demanding and exacting standards on people in any service industry really should be made to spend some time in that service industry...


I have been to a restaurant where I had to wait and wondered why, when there were plenty of empty tables. I asked and was told there weren't enough servers. I wasn't "OK" with it but understood their predicament and their way of handling it.

No disrespect intended but "baloney". I don't have to spend time as a waiter (or chef) to have the right to demand my money's worth when I eat out. I don't have to be a surgeon to demand my surgery is done well. etc.

All I ask is that any establishment provide the advertised products and services I agreed to pay for.
 
No disrespect intended, but like I said...

It has a tendency to change people, which is probably why so many are so quick to dismiss the idea or find any excuse they can to invalidate the idea.

Big difference between getting what I paid for, and demanding more than one would ever expect of themselves in their shoes. I guess it comes back to that 'Well it's not my fault you couldn't get a real job like me' mentality that seems to be so pervasive these days.

So I have respect for the working class, employ compassion and understanding, try to keep perspective and treat others with the same dignity and respect I would demand, and what I am the bad guy?

Stop the planet, I want off...
 
...So I have respect for the working class, employ compassion and understanding, try to keep perspective and treat others with the same dignity and respect I would demand, and what I am the bad guy?

Stop the planet, I want off...


This is NOT about a lack of respect for the working class. You are not a bad guy for being respectful to any other person. You are also not a bad guy for wanting fair value for your money.

On the contrary, this is about a lack of respect for the customer. If the kitchen screws up my meal, I expect them to make it right. If the server is late delivering my food and it's cold, my finding that not acceptable is not a sign of disrespect for the server.

When you go into a restaurant, there is an implied contract. The restaurant agrees to deliver a well prepared meal made with wholesome ingredients in a timely manner, etc. In return, I agree to give them my money. The server, acting as an employee of the restaurant, is there to enhance, not degrade that exchange.

Showing my displeasure with poor service by modifying my tip is the only way of meaningfully expressing my displeasure.
 
This is NOT about a lack of respect for the working class. You are not a bad guy for being respectful to any other person. You are also not a bad guy for wanting fair value for your money.

On the contrary, this is about a lack of respect for the customer. If the kitchen screws up my meal, I expect them to make it right. If the server is late delivering my food and it's cold, my finding that not acceptable is not a sign of disrespect for the server.

When you go into a restaurant, there is an implied contract. The restaurant agrees to deliver a well prepared meal made with wholesome ingredients in a timely manner, etc. In return, I agree to give them my money. The server, acting as an employee of the restaurant, is there to enhance, not degrade that exchange.

Showing my displeasure with poor service by modifying my tip is the only way of meaningfully expressing my displeasure.

And I am not arguing with that, I feel the same way. But I am saying there is a difference between asking to get what you paid for, and demanding something unreasonable. Some of the posts I have read imply they expect something unreasonable, I am not saying you are, and I don't think you are.

Taking your surgery example. We both expect to get what we paid for, for the implied contract to be fulfilled. In this case, for the surgeon to do it right. I think I would be pretty ticked off if he had messed it up cause he was more worried about his golf game. Well actually I probably wouldn't be around to be ticked off, so I guess DW would be for me.
But is it also reasonable and part of the implied contract to assume that when you wake up you will be assigned your own personal nurse? That said nurse will be there 24hrs a day until you are released? That she will sleep on a cot in your room and avail herself to you at all times, interrupting her sleeping, her eating, her doing anything to immediately take care of you?
Or reasonable to call the surgeon in and chew him out for a good 1/2 hour because the scar left by his incision was not perfectly straight?
I don't think so, but yes I do expect them to answer the call button in a timely manner, and I do expect the incision to be closed.
See, there is a difference. I think you see a difference too, and I think you are a reasonable person, but I also think some posters wouldn't see a difference, and would wonder what in the world I was talking about.

I have seen a lot of this else where as well. I have known several bar owners and restaurant owners over the years.
I have seen cases where they turned people away because too many employees called in sick, and even though they explained exactly why they couldn't wait on the person, that person still went around town claiming they were turned away for no good reason and insulted by being denied service and never came back. They also got others to go along with them and drop their patronage.
But when they seat and serve people even though they are short handed, they get complaints but the customers still come back. As a restaurant owner, which course of action would you choose?

I think it is great that you, while upset, would still at least understand and be OK with it. But you are in the minority, according to my and their personal experiences, and they can't bet on the minority. They have to go with the majority, and some opinions I have read indicate that while they would reduce the tip on the waitress for being too busy to properly care for them, they wouldn't necessarily stop going unless of course it happened every time they went.

And while it would be great if the waitress could just tell you she these reasons and save her tip, the tip just isn't worth her job and so she takes the heat and loss all to put food on the table for her family. Because if she does tell you, and you take it up with the management as that is the appropriate action, the management will of course know how you found out and she will soon be looking for a new job. That I have seen first hand as well.

And that is what I wanted people to see and understand...
 
If I bought a dress with a problem I would return it, I think just about anyone would. Then again if I bought a dress and it wasn't for DW... well that is a whole nother issue...
But I have never met anyone, before you guys, that would be OK with being told "I am sorry you can't eat here because two of my waitress' just called in sick".
Nope, I think more realistically that would start a whole nother argument, and I imagine a lot of people would be put off and not go back. Better to risk someone waiting an extra amount of time for service and being agitated then stomping out after being told that and never coming back.
There is a lot of risk in the restaurant business, having worked there I guess I can understand where they are coming from. Seating them is a risk, they may or may not come back. Turning them away is lost business, you can't get that back no matter what you do.
I really think anyone who places such demanding and exacting standards on people in any service industry really should be made to spend some time in that service industry. It has a tendency to change people, which is probably why so many are so quick to dismiss the idea or find any excuse they can to invalidate the idea.
Walk a mile in their shoes so to speak... worst case you are a mile away and have their shoes to boot!
I know that there are often good reasons for things like that. And I am one of the most understanding people you will ever meet. But I still thought it was an interesting analogy. If you look back to my other posts, the only times I have ever withheld a tip or complained was for rudeness.

Barbara
 
I know that there are often good reasons for things like that. And I am one of the most understanding people you will ever meet. But I still thought it was an interesting analogy. If you look back to my other posts, the only times I have ever withheld a tip or complained was for rudeness.

Barbara

I agree, I liked the analogy. But I moved beyond that and was speaking of the kind of person that buys a $15 dress at K-Mart but expects the same quality as a $1500 dress custom made by a high end exclusive company.
If you paid for the $1500 dress and got the $15 dress sure you would be upset, but the other way around is not reasonable.
My experience shows me this puts you and Andy in the minority who are reasonable, and most restaurants don't cater to the minority, they do what the majority want so the majority come back again.
Which got to my final point, which is that it bugs me when someone in the majority helps create the condition, then whines about the condition and allows for no understanding or compassion or at least acknowledges some responsibility.
It's like going out and campaigning and contributing to get the speed limit in residential areas lowered to 20 and you are successful, but then complaining later because you got a ticket for going 25 in a residential area...

So here you have some who detracts from or completely eliminates the tip because the waitress was too busy to care for them to their standards, but it is because they were short staffed, but they wouldn't have come back if you had turned them away, so you were forced to seat them to keep that from happening, but then they got mad because the service wasn't up to par.

Now I feel dizzy...
 
No disrespect intended, but like I said...



Big difference between getting what I paid for, and demanding more than one would ever expect of themselves in their shoes. I guess it comes back to that 'Well it's not my fault you couldn't get a real job like me' mentality that seems to be so pervasive these days.

So I have respect for the working class, employ compassion and understanding, try to keep perspective and treat others with the same dignity and respect I would demand, and what I am the bad guy?

Stop the planet, I want off...

I don't see how expecting to get good service is showing a lack of respect or compassion for the working class. It's got nothing to do with treating others with dignity or respect. It's about getting what is paid for. When you go to a restaurant, you expect to be served in a timely and pleasant fashion.
 
I agree, I liked the analogy. But I moved beyond that and was speaking of the kind of person that buys a $15 dress at K-Mart but expects the same quality as a $1500 dress custom made by a high end exclusive company.
If you paid for the $1500 dress and got the $15 dress sure you would be upset, but the other way around is not reasonable.
My experience shows me this puts you and Andy in the minority who are reasonable, and most restaurants don't cater to the minority, they do what the majority want so the majority come back again.
Which got to my final point, which is that it bugs me when someone in the majority helps create the condition, then whines about the condition and allows for no understanding or compassion or at least acknowledges some responsibility.
It's like going out and campaigning and contributing to get the speed limit in residential areas lowered to 20 and you are successful, but then complaining later because you got a ticket for going 25 in a residential area...

So here you have some who detracts from or completely eliminates the tip because the waitress was too busy to care for them to their standards, but it is because they were short staffed, but they wouldn't have come back if you had turned them away, so you were forced to seat them to keep that from happening, but then they got mad because the service wasn't up to par.

Now I feel dizzy...

You are quite adept at putting words in my mouth....and I'm not really interested in arguing the point further. You can put me in the minority, if you must insist it actually exists, that I'd rather know a restaurant couldn't accomodate me properly than suffer through shoddy service or less than perfect food. I've returned to places I wanted to frequent when they could accomodate me properly.
Your insistence that I'm being unreasonable, or expecting an unreasonable amount of attention from the staff is preposterous. The fact that I believe it's to be expected is what seems to get under your skin. I could be wrong, and I'll admit to that, if I am. However, every time I make any type of response regarding the service industry and what I expect, you seem to get upset by my responses. This isn't meant to be personal, Maverick. Perhaps my standards are different than yours, but that doesn't make me or my standards wrong or unreasonable. It surely doesn't make me incompassionate or disrespectful. To assume I am and to write it, here, is insulting. I never said anything about 15 dollar dresses versus 1500 dollar dresses. My analogy is plain and simple. If I'm paying for a product or a service, I'm not going to finish the product or service myself if the provider didn't or couldn't do it right. I'm going to voice my disapproval and take my business elsewhere. I work too hard for my money to settle for any less. And again, this isn't meant to be a personal attack to you or someone you know. I'm in the hospitality business myself, working long hard days on my feet from start to end. Do not lecture me on respecting people in the industry. I am part of that industry and know what is expected, both front of the house, and back. If I'm expected to deliver, than I expect the same in return.
 
It seems to me that a restaurant shouldn't necessarily turn people away when they are understaffed, but maybe tell the customers that that are short-staffed and are welcome to stay but there may be some delays. I have had that happen before. If I have time, I stay. If I don't, I go somewhere else but it doesn't prevent me from returning to that restaurant another night.
 
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