i really need some pointers here....i still cant get this .....if rec. says steam i would get my steamer out but yet in baking (when covered) it steams it is part of the baking process. In cooking on the stove...(like the sausages) its steam too......Bec. of the cooking process?I am not understanding this yet. Any suggestions broken down would help. Tried looking on line but dont know how to put in words that internet could help.
Understanding a cooking method?
- Thread starter mumu
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that enjoys cooking.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
Cooking sausages on the stove top is a two-step process. One step is browning the sausage for flavor and the other is steaming it to cook it through.
Greg Who Cooks
Executive Chef
Pancakes are either butter braised or braised in light oil. Fat braising is a different process than liquid braising, using a fat instead of a water based liquid.ok, so are pancackes fried, or griddled, or butter steamed, or...
Last edited:
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
I don't see braising involved in cooking pancakes at all. if there is any fat on the cooking surface for pancakes, it's minimal, the pancakes are not covered. I don't see how this is braising.
I see it a closer to frying than braising.
Greg Who Cooks
Executive Chef
There may possibly be a bit of leg pulling involved in the butter braising method described.
GLC
Head Chef
Butter braising seems to be accepted to have the obvious meaning, such as butter braised cabbage that's simply cooked gently in butter and the same volume of water. Really, it just shows that it's not worth getting too pedantic about what names of methods mean. I suspect that if you told most reasonably experienced cooks to "braise cabbage in butter," you'd get something pretty similar from all of them. And I doubt many, given their experience, would try to sear it and then shove it with liquid in a covered pan into the oven. But I think if you asked them to braise a pancake, they would just be puzzled.
I think most of the named methods are much older than the very flexible equipment we have today, like ready availability to burner, oven, broiler, and every manner of pot and pan. And how much methodological territory is covered by some terms is demonstrated by Escoffier's statement that braising was one of the most difficult methods to master. By which, I take him to mean that it's simple to say what braising is but difficult to apply it to many different foods to produce precise and subtle effects. The carrot that happens to ride along with the braised pork is hardly an attractive or particularly flavorful carrot. Now, try braising the carrots alone for a dish that would be noteworthy. Takes a lot more experience and knowledge than just knowing the brief description of braising.
And because we have all these options of equipment and cookware, we can, if we have enough experience (of luck) to do it, combine methods and parts of methods in ways that just don't fit definitions.
And why the cabbages are said to be braised, but mushrooms cooked in an open pan with butter in a hot oven are said to be broiled, I'm not at all sure. Besides. No one complains, because anything's good cooked in butter. A common art gum eraser broiled in butter is good, as escargot demonstrates.
I think most of the named methods are much older than the very flexible equipment we have today, like ready availability to burner, oven, broiler, and every manner of pot and pan. And how much methodological territory is covered by some terms is demonstrated by Escoffier's statement that braising was one of the most difficult methods to master. By which, I take him to mean that it's simple to say what braising is but difficult to apply it to many different foods to produce precise and subtle effects. The carrot that happens to ride along with the braised pork is hardly an attractive or particularly flavorful carrot. Now, try braising the carrots alone for a dish that would be noteworthy. Takes a lot more experience and knowledge than just knowing the brief description of braising.
And because we have all these options of equipment and cookware, we can, if we have enough experience (of luck) to do it, combine methods and parts of methods in ways that just don't fit definitions.
And why the cabbages are said to be braised, but mushrooms cooked in an open pan with butter in a hot oven are said to be broiled, I'm not at all sure. Besides. No one complains, because anything's good cooked in butter. A common art gum eraser broiled in butter is good, as escargot demonstrates.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
...A common art gum eraser broiled in butter is good, as escargot demonstrates.
Someone had to say it...
Greg Who Cooks
Executive Chef
I made up the term as a joke. Braising requires presence of hot water vapor usually as steam.
I strongly recommend against the practice of braising pancakes.
I strongly recommend against the practice of braising pancakes.
GLC
Head Chef
Back on the first two pages of this thread, we talked about steaming, boiling, and baking potatoes. Here's tonight's exercise:
Four whole medium russet potatoes, very close to the same time and of uniform shape.
Potato 1 - Boiled - Vigorous boil, covered pot. Bare not penetrated until temperature probed after 25 minutes.
Began 298 g. Ended 302 g. Reached 190F in 35 minutes.
Potato 2 - Steamed - Bare in standard SS steamer over vigorous boil. Not penetrated until probed at 25 minutes.
Began 309 g. Ended 310 g. Reached 190F in 40 minutes.
Potato 3 - Baked Bare - Light rub with OO - 24 fork tine penetrations. 400F oven with probe in potato.
Began 296 g. Ended 278 g. Reached 190F in 35 minutes.
Potato 4 - Baked in Tight Foil - 24 fork tine penetrations. 400F oven. Began 294 g. Ended (not weighed, but probably no change, due to foil seal) g. Reached 160F in 40 minutes. (Allowed to finish in oven.)
I believe I will steam my potatoes from now on. Very easy. Least change in weight. Probably more efficient than the oven. Essentially the same time as boiling. But all three took the same time, while #4 was a poor performance and wasteful of energy.
I'm not surprised at the similarity between boiling and steaming. The environmental temperatures should be alike. Water and steam are clearly better at conducting heat to the potato than oven air that was 400F for the same effect.
I shall now eat the subjects.
Four whole medium russet potatoes, very close to the same time and of uniform shape.
Potato 1 - Boiled - Vigorous boil, covered pot. Bare not penetrated until temperature probed after 25 minutes.
Began 298 g. Ended 302 g. Reached 190F in 35 minutes.
Potato 2 - Steamed - Bare in standard SS steamer over vigorous boil. Not penetrated until probed at 25 minutes.
Began 309 g. Ended 310 g. Reached 190F in 40 minutes.
Potato 3 - Baked Bare - Light rub with OO - 24 fork tine penetrations. 400F oven with probe in potato.
Began 296 g. Ended 278 g. Reached 190F in 35 minutes.
Potato 4 - Baked in Tight Foil - 24 fork tine penetrations. 400F oven. Began 294 g. Ended (not weighed, but probably no change, due to foil seal) g. Reached 160F in 40 minutes. (Allowed to finish in oven.)
I believe I will steam my potatoes from now on. Very easy. Least change in weight. Probably more efficient than the oven. Essentially the same time as boiling. But all three took the same time, while #4 was a poor performance and wasteful of energy.
I'm not surprised at the similarity between boiling and steaming. The environmental temperatures should be alike. Water and steam are clearly better at conducting heat to the potato than oven air that was 400F for the same effect.
I shall now eat the subjects.
If you are in a hurry, slice the potatoes and steam them. They are done very quickly (5-10 minutes).
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
We need a Potato #5: Microwaved for three minutes then into the 400º F oven.
Dawgluver
Chef Extraordinaire
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 25,033
Not sure how GLC is gonna eat 5 potatoes....
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
There could be potato sandwiches or a small batch of potato salad.
Dawgluver
Chef Extraordinaire
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 25,033
Andy M. said:What? Four potatoes didn't bother you but the fifth was over the line?
Yes.
Four is the limit.
Andy M.
Certified Pretend Chef
Dawgluver
Chef Extraordinaire
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 25,033
Andy M. said:
Especially if they're all large potatoes. Don't think they move very fast, so he can probably take a break or two from watching them....
am i correct in saying this....making chicken pieces in baking dish with bottles of bq.sauce poured over and a lid at 350 in the oven this would be a form of braising? Same with if put a whole chicken in a covered roasting pan with water (couple of cups) at 350 in oven,this to braising? Also is slow roasting... in oven at say 250 and is there usually water in the pan or is it not considered roasting bec. i added water?
GLC
Head Chef
Regardless of what it's called, chicken doesn't require classic braising. It has no connective tissue to break down with long cooking. But it can work to sear it and finish cooking it on the range top with a complex of things that will cook down to a sauce. That's also often called braising.
There is often a need to keep a whole chicken in an oven from drying out, but that's more flavorfully accomplished by doing things like rubbing butter under the skin and/or brining. I think if you put a chicken in a closed pot with water, it's pretty much a stewed chicken, a not very interesting dish.
I've never in my life poured bottled BBQ sauce over chicken and oven baked it, but I would think that, with all the thickeners and sugar in most bottled BBQ sauces, it might well burn before the chicken was done. Chicken pieces do so nicely just coated with oil and salt and cooked on a sheet in a hot oven that just finishing them off with sauce at the end in the oven would be better. Or work up a dry rub of the same spices as the BBQ sauce. I think wet methods of attempting things like hot wings tend to leave the chicken unappealingly soft and waterlogged.
And to bring two branches of the thread together, I had help with the potato consumption, including the chickens who were enthusiastic about the potato, although that's no guide, since they are enthusiastic about most anything that's not their usual layer pellets. Aging bananas and remains of corn on the cob are winners with them.
There is often a need to keep a whole chicken in an oven from drying out, but that's more flavorfully accomplished by doing things like rubbing butter under the skin and/or brining. I think if you put a chicken in a closed pot with water, it's pretty much a stewed chicken, a not very interesting dish.
I've never in my life poured bottled BBQ sauce over chicken and oven baked it, but I would think that, with all the thickeners and sugar in most bottled BBQ sauces, it might well burn before the chicken was done. Chicken pieces do so nicely just coated with oil and salt and cooked on a sheet in a hot oven that just finishing them off with sauce at the end in the oven would be better. Or work up a dry rub of the same spices as the BBQ sauce. I think wet methods of attempting things like hot wings tend to leave the chicken unappealingly soft and waterlogged.
And to bring two branches of the thread together, I had help with the potato consumption, including the chickens who were enthusiastic about the potato, although that's no guide, since they are enthusiastic about most anything that's not their usual layer pellets. Aging bananas and remains of corn on the cob are winners with them.
