Question about smoking temperature (safety related)

[Rocklobster]

My sister gave me a Mini Chief smoker she never used. I had some ribs in it a while ago and now they are wrapped on the bbq at 225....anyhoo, I've never used one of these Mini Chiefs and soon discovered that they don't reach a very high temp(around 165) and are really just designed to impart smoke flavor to your meats, cheeses, etc....my question is this, how safe would it be to leave your meat for 2 or 3 hours at that that low temp? As a long time cook, I would be a bit leery, but does the smoke add extra prevention against bacteria build up? I'm wondering if 2 or 3 hours at 165ish is enough time to create dangerous levels of bacteria, or once it gets exposed to 225 or higher for a few more hours, that will take care of any potential problems. Just wondering....

 

[rodentraiser]

That's an interesting question and I'd like to know about that as well. I occasionally will cut a steak into strips and marinate it in mesquite or something similar, then lay it on a rack in the oven (on a cookie sheet) and let it cook for about 45 - 55 minutes at 200°. I understand cooking the meat for another 45 minutes to an hour would give me beef jerky, but I've never done that. I was wondering how safe the meat was as well, although I haven't died from this yet.

 

[GotGarlic]

The "danger zone," where microbes reproduce fastest, is between 41 and 140 degrees F. So restaurants can cook foods and then serve, for example, in chafing dishes that maintain the temperature above 140.

But the pork needs to reach 140 or so within a couple of hours in order to kill off the microbes. At a temp of 160, I'm not sure there's any way to know how long that takes, especially in a smoker outside that may lose heat depending on the outside temperature and how well it's insulated. Smoking kills some bacteria but not all. Here's more info on that: Smoking meat

The problem in food safety that people often forget is that the microbes aren't usually what make people sick. As they multiply, they create a toxin as a byproduct of reproduction. That's what makes people sick.

RR - people don't usually die of food poisoning. It's more often an upset stomach with vomiting and diarrhea. There's no such thing as the 24-hour flu Flu is a respiratory illness while food poisoning is gastrointestinal. But cooking beef slices at 200 for an hour is fine. It's a higher temp than Rock is talking about and for less time.

 

[Rocklobster]

Well, I'm going to eat in about 20 minutes, so if you don't hear from me it was nice knowing you all...what a way to go. on my 54th birthday!!!They were good years

 

[GotGarlic]

Well, I'm going to eat in about 20 minutes, so if you don't hear from me it was nice knowing you all...what a way to go. on my 54th birthday!!!They were good years

Nice knowing you, Rock! Happy Birthday!

 

[Caslon]

Speaking of pork ribs? How come you don't see true pork baby back ribs at the butcher counter nowadays? You know...ribs with petite bones in them, like in "Lloyd's BBQ Ribs" packages and such. I bought a rack of pork ribs with big bones and could only get 1/3 of them to fit in my electric crock pot.

Are true "baby back pork ribs" young pork loin ribs or what? I bet companies like Lloyd's have a proprietary supplier that gets them petite baby back sized pork ribs. I haven't seen uncooked ones like those for sale in years. Crock pot sized. Bones no thicker than your finger. Now they're as big a round as my thumb, or bigger.

 

[CraigC]

Rock, when I smoke andouille sausage, I set up for 180F (basically cold smoking). The sausage goes until the internal temp reaches 150F. With the carry over, they end up around 160F (wrapped). Of course there was cure added to the ground pork and it cures overnight. I also do tasso at the same temp, but it cures for 7 days. I'm not sure about ribs at 165F, guess you'll find out in the next day or two!

 

[Rocklobster]

I'm still here...other than a bit of fog from the birthday beer, everything seems to be ok.....off to work I go..

 

[GotGarlic]

Glad you made it!

 

[RPCookin]

Speaking of pork ribs? How come you don't see true pork baby back ribs at the butcher counter nowadays? You know...ribs with petite bones in them, like in "Lloyd's BBQ Ribs" packages and such. I bought a rack of pork ribs with big bones and could only get 1/3 of them to fit in my electric crock pot.

Are true "baby back pork ribs" young pork loin ribs or what? I bet companies like Lloyd's have a proprietary supplier that gets them petite baby back sized pork ribs. I haven't seen uncooked ones like those for sale in years. Crock pot sized. Bones no thicker than your finger. Now they're as big a round as my thumb, or bigger.

I can get baby backs at any of the 3 grocery stores in town, as well as at the one butcher shop. They are pre-packaged, not cut at the grocery stores, but they are true baby backs. They usually have the three popular styles - baby back, St. Louis, and the full rack of spare ribs. I usually do St. Louis style ribs because they are meatier and juicier.

 

[Dawgluver]

Speaking of pork ribs? How come you don't see true pork baby back ribs at the butcher counter nowadays? You know...ribs with petite bones in them, like in "Lloyd's BBQ Ribs" packages and such. I bought a rack of pork ribs with big bones and could only get 1/3 of them to fit in my electric crock pot.

Are true "baby back pork ribs" young pork loin ribs or what? I bet companies like Lloyd's have a proprietary supplier that gets them petite baby back sized pork ribs. I haven't seen uncooked ones like those for sale in years. Crock pot sized. Bones no thicker than your finger. Now they're as big a round as my thumb, or bigger.

I think even old pigs have "baby back" ribs. I think it's a certain cut of ribs, not just from piglets, from the lower rib section. I have been known to be wrong though.

 

[Roll_Bones]

I can get baby backs at any of the 3 grocery stores in town, as well as at the one butcher shop. They are pre-packaged, not cut at the grocery stores, but they are true baby backs. They usually have the three popular styles - baby back, St. Louis, and the full rack of spare ribs. I usually do St. Louis style ribs because they are meatier and juicier.

I quit buying the back ribs at Costco and now only buy the St. Louis cut. More meat and they still have fairly small bones.
The back ribs at Costco while very good, had to much meat. I should say they did not look like back ribs, but small rib chops when sliced up for serving.
Little pork chops if you will.

 

[rodentraiser]

RR - people don't usually die of food poisoning. It's more often an upset stomach with vomiting and diarrhea. There's no such thing as the 24-hour flu Flu is a respiratory illness while food poisoning is gastrointestinal. But cooking beef slices at 200 for an hour is fine. It's a higher temp than Rock is talking about and for less time.

I'm not really as concerned with eating undercooked steak as I am with eating undercooked hamburger. Because the hamburger is ground up with so much meat from other cows, one sick cow can contaminate 8 tons of beef. That's why you hear so much about ground beef recalls and not steak recalls.

But food poisoning is nothing to laugh at and especially for young children, HUS (Hemolytic-uremic syndrome) is a real danger.

 

[GotGarlic]

I'm not really as concerned with eating undercooked steak as I am with eating undercooked hamburger. Because the hamburger is ground up with so much meat from other cows, one sick cow can contaminate 8 tons of beef. That's why you hear so much about ground beef recalls and not steak recalls.

But food poisoning is nothing to laugh at and especially for young children, HUS (Hemolytic-uremic syndrome) is a real danger.

I was just answering the question you asked.

It's illegal to sell sick cows. E. coli occurs naturally in all animals. It doesn't make them sick. When people get sick from it, it's usually because the meat was stored improperly, although it has been found in vegetables as well.

Food poisoning can also be serious for the elderly and people with compromised immune systems due to medication or illness.

 

[Addie]

I'm not really as concerned with eating undercooked steak as I am with eating undercooked hamburger. Because the hamburger is ground up with so much meat from other cows, one sick cow can contaminate 8 tons of beef. That's why you hear so much about ground beef recalls and not steak recalls.

But food poisoning is nothing to laugh at and especially for young children, HUS (Hemolytic-uremic syndrome) is a real danger.

Pirate has had food poisoning three times. The last time the hospital was considering putting him on life support so his system could concentrate on ridding his system of the poisoning, and not working so hard to stay alive. And he was an adult each time. Food poisoning is scary stuff.

 

[outRIAAge]

My question is this, how safe would it be to leave your meat for 2 or 3 hours at that that low temp? As a long time cook, I would be a bit leery, but does the smoke add extra prevention against bacteria build up? I'm wondering if 2 or 3 hours at 165ish is enough time to create dangerous levels of bacteria, or once it gets exposed to 225 or higher for a few more hours, that will take care of any potential problems. Just wondering....

Going back to your original question, it's an interesting point. I do 10-hour smokes of pork shoulders* that very slowly come up to 160F. I always brine them beforehand, but not enough to completely sterilize them. The smoke sterilizes the surface, where most of the contaminates are, and everything is going to die before it reaches 160F, but in the meantime, what might I be incubating in there and what toxins might it leave?

I believe beef and lamb are completely safe, because all the contaminants are on the surface and the smoke takes care of them. Chicken? I brine that, too, but again there's a window of vulnerability in there for internal bugs, especially with factory chickens, but I avoid those completely.

Now I'm slightly worried. Thoughts or insights, anyone?

*Unattended, in my digital smoker that uses hockey-pucks of compressed sawdust: take that, NC pitmasters

 

[tenspeed]

Using a slow cooker as a proxy, the following is from West Bend:

West Bend® - Kitchen Appliances | Celebrating 100 Years! | Temperatures - Slow Cookers - Product FAQs - Support

Do not use a setting below #3 to cook foods. Use setting #2 as a keep warm setting for serving cooked foods.

Below is a general guideline as to the temperature at each setting. Temperatures are measured with cooking pot being filled with liquid.

Setting 1 - 140 degrees Fahrenheit
Setting 2 - 165 to 170 degrees Fahrenheit
Setting 3 - 180 degrees Fahrenheit
Setting 4 - 200 degrees Fahrenheit
Setting 5 - 212 degrees Fahrenheit

Sounds like smoking at 165 F is not safe practice, as it will take too long to bring the food up to a safe temperature.

 

[RPCookin]

I've never seen any posts about smoking where they use any less than about 220° F. Even on the smoking forum (smokingmeatforums.com) I've never seen anyone use lower than that. I'd call it a bit of a risk.

 

[GotGarlic]

Are true "baby back pork ribs" young pork loin ribs or what? I bet companies like Lloyd's have a proprietary supplier that gets them petite baby back sized pork ribs. I haven't seen uncooked ones like those for sale in years. Crock pot sized. Bones no thicker than your finger. Now they're as big a round as my thumb, or bigger.

Baby back ribs are available where I live, as well as other types of ribs. I've even seen cross-cut Korean-style ribs.

Guide to ribs. They're called baby back ribs because they're smaller and shorter than the other ribs.
http://www.chowstatic.com/blog-media/2015/05/Meat-Cuts-Illustration.jpg

 

[GotGarlic]

Going back to your original question, it's an interesting point. I do 10-hour smokes of pork shoulders* that very slowly come up to 160F. I always brine them beforehand, but not enough to completely sterilize them. The smoke sterilizes the surface, where most of the contaminates are, and everything is going to die before it reaches 160F, but in the meantime, what might I be incubating in there and what toxins might it leave?

I believe beef and lamb are completely safe, because all the contaminants are on the surface and the smoke takes care of them. Chicken? I brine that, too, but again there's a window of vulnerability in there for internal bugs, especially with factory chickens, but I avoid those completely.

Now I'm slightly worried. Thoughts or insights, anyone?

*Unattended, in my digital smoker that uses hockey-pucks of compressed sawdust: take that, NC pitmasters

You might want to read this, which I posted earlier: http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking