Cake ingredients substitutions

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FluffyAngel

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If vinegar is called for in a cake does the type of vinegar (if it's only a teaspoon or tablespoon) matter. For example balsamic or apple cider vinegar for white (I'm thinking you can Not swap out right?) I feel like I should know this but if I did, I forgot. I have subbed out vegetable oil with a blend of olive oil & butter with excellent results before. I can't remember about the vinegar though.
 
Yeah, I think I had better stick with white vinegar. Oh well. Guess I will be getting dressed today after all.
 
I use either apple cider or regular white vinegar in baking, both work well. Usually the amount is small enough that the extra flavor of cider doesn't make a difference.

Those are really the only two that I use interchangeably in baking, although I used pickle juice in a chocolate cake out of desperation, lol!
 
I only use white vinegar for cleaning. The alcohol that the vinegar is made from can be a petroleum product. I always use cider vinegar and have never had a problem. If I were out of cider vinegar, I would sub white wine vinegar or even rice vinegar. If it's for something chocolate, I wouldn't hesitate to use red wine vinegar and may try balsamic some time.

It's for the chemical reaction. I would check the percentage of vinegar to make sure it is a similar strength to white vinegar, which is usually 5% acetic acid.
 
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I only use white vinegar for cleaning. The alcohol that the vinegar is made from can be a petroleum product. I always use cider vinegar and have never had a problem. If I were out of cider vinegar, I would sub white wine vinegar or even rice vinegar. If it's for something chocolate, I wouldn't hesitate to use red wine vinegar and may try balsamic some time.

It's for the chemical reaction. I would check the percentage of vinegar to make sure it is a similar strength to white vinegar, which is usually 5% acetic acid.


There are no petroleum products used to make white vinegar. White vinegar is a distillation of other vinegar such as malt vinegar. Vinegars are created from the fermentation of food products - malt, wine, cider, etc.. White or distilled vinegar is made by distilling one of these food based vinegars.

No petroleum products are involved in the process.
 
There are no petroleum products used to make white vinegar. White vinegar is a distillation of other vinegar such as malt vinegar. Vinegars are created from the fermentation of food products - malt, wine, cider, etc.. White or distilled vinegar is made by distilling one of these food based vinegars.

No petroleum products are involved in the process.
This is what Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Division, Internal Revenue Service has to say about it:

"Presently, we authorize the manufacture of vinegar from ethyl alcohol synthesized from natural gas or petroleum derivatives. It is our opinion that most of the distilled spirits used in the production of vinegar are derived from natural gas and petroleum. When such alcohol is used in the production of vinegar, we would consider any reference to 'grain alcohol' or 'neutral grain spirits' would be misleading for the alcohol and also the name 'grain vinegar' would be misleading, except for connoting strength, e.g., 40-grains."

From the FDA web page at: CPG Sec. 555.100 Alcohol; Use of Synthetic Alcohol in Foods

I don't just make up this stuff.
 
This is what Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Division, Internal Revenue Service has to say about it:

"Presently, we authorize the manufacture of vinegar from ethyl alcohol synthesized from natural gas or petroleum derivatives. It is our opinion that most of the distilled spirits used in the production of vinegar are derived from natural gas and petroleum. When such alcohol is used in the production of vinegar, we would consider any reference to 'grain alcohol' or 'neutral grain spirits' would be misleading for the alcohol and also the name 'grain vinegar' would be misleading, except for connoting strength, e.g., 40-grains."

From the FDA web page at: CPG Sec. 555.100 Alcohol; Use of Synthetic Alcohol in Foods

I don't just make up this stuff.

I guess I live in an idealistic world.

I did see this in your linked article: Practically and scientifically, pure ethyl alcohol synthesized from natural gas or petroleum products does not differ from that obtained by fermentation with subsequent distillation. Furthermore, foods in which one is used cannot be distinguished objectively from those in which the other is used.
 
I guess I live in an idealistic world.

I did see this in your linked article: Practically and scientifically, pure ethyl alcohol synthesized from natural gas or petroleum products does not differ from that obtained by fermentation with subsequent distillation. Furthermore, foods in which one is used cannot be distinguished objectively from those in which the other is used.
Yeah, honestly, it probably doesn't make any difference, but I don't like the idea of eating petroleum products. There could be trace differences.
 
Yeah, honestly, it probably doesn't make any difference, but I don't like the idea of eating petroleum products. There could be trace differences.


Whether it's petroleum distillates, ethyl alcohol or vinegar, it's a combination of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. We are in a carbon-based world. If it's organic, it consists of those three elements. I am not saying it's all the same. I'd consume vinegar but not petroleum distillate.

If they are chemically identical (as the article says with the statement that they are scientifically do not differ) I accept that.

If you take the position that you will not use it for food, "Just to be on the safe side", OK, but I can't agree with that approach.
 
I only use white vinegar for cleaning. The alcohol that the vinegar is made from can be a petroleum product.

I was curious about this statement, as I've never heard that before. I found this page (Is That Right? Vinegar Can Come From Petroleum), which says:

"As a practical matter, the FDA spokesperson told [the reporter] in an e-mail that the FDA's not aware of any manufacturers that use petroleum to start their vinegar. And Jeannie Milewski, executive director of the Atlanta-based Vinegar Institute, an international group that represents vinegar manufacturers ... and suppliers to that industry, confirms that "We are not aware of anyone who uses petroleum as a starting material for vinegar."

So while manufacturers *can* use petroleum as a starter for white distilled vinegar, it appears they don't.

Thanks for mentioning that - I learned something new today :)
 
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I was curious about this statement, as I've never heard that before. I found this page (Is That Right? Vinegar Can Come From Petroleum), which says:

"As a practical matter, the FDA spokesperson told [the reporter] in an e-mail that the FDA's not aware of any manufacturers that use petroleum to start their vinegar. And Jeannie Milewski, executive director of the Atlanta-based Vinegar Institute, an international group that represents vinegar manufacturers ... and suppliers to that industry, confirms that "We are not aware of anyone who uses petroleum as a starting material for vinegar."

So while manufacturers *can* use petroleum as a starter for white distilled vinegar, it appears they don't.

Thanks for mentioning that - I learned something new today :)


Technically speaking, no manufacturers use petroleum to start vinegar. The petroleum is used to manufacture alcohol. The alcohol is used to make the vinegar.

So those statements may be a way of weaseling around the issue.
 
I went directly to a knowledgeable source, who has written guidelines for OSHA and dealt with the Federal Guidelines for the purchasing of acids. He writes:

Acetic Acid is a natural fermentation product, and as such is approved for use as a food additive in the U.S. Millions of gallons of vinegar are produced by fermentation annually for the food industry, but a far cheaper process can make it from petroleum feed-stocks, and does so to the tune of several million tons annually. Unfortunately, the FDA does not allow petroleum based acetic acid in our food or drugs even though chemists cannot distinguish between them. Acetic acid can be from either source, but vinegar can only be from fermentation. Vinegar is typically sold as 3% or 5% solution, but is available up to 100%. Percentages greater than 5% are generally not available to the public because of legal liability. Concentrations higher than 5% may be considered "Hazardous Cargo" and would be expensive to ship and prohibitive to display on store shelves. You might be able to get stronger dilutions from a pharmacist. Stronger dilutions would be used in chemical processes for which the petroleum based product is approved. 100% acetic acid is called "Glacial Acetic Acid" because it freezes into a glass-like solid at about 61-62° Fahrenheit. Incidentally, it is one of the few substances which expands on freezing. Another form of acetic acid is called "Acetic Anhydride". It is made by removing one molecule of water from two molecules of acetic acid. It readily absorbs moisture and converts back into acetic acid. An interesting use of the anhydride is to dissolve polymethylsiloxane. This solution is sold in caulking gun cartridges as "Silicone Sealant". If you ever use silicone sealant or bathtub caulk, provided it is advertised as "Silicone", notice the vinegar smell it produces as it cures.
 
I went directly to a knowledgeable source, who has written guidelines for OSHA and dealt with the Federal Guidelines for the purchasing of acids. He writes:

Acetic Acid is a natural fermentation product, and as such is approved for use as a food additive in the U.S. Millions of gallons of vinegar are produced by fermentation annually for the food industry, but a far cheaper process can make it from petroleum feed-stocks, and does so to the tune of several million tons annually. Unfortunately, the FDA does not allow petroleum based acetic acid in our food or drugs even though chemists cannot distinguish between them. Acetic acid can be from either source, but vinegar can only be from fermentation. Vinegar is typically sold as 3% or 5% solution, but is available up to 100%. Percentages greater than 5% are generally not available to the public because of legal liability. Concentrations higher than 5% may be considered "Hazardous Cargo" and would be expensive to ship and prohibitive to display on store shelves. You might be able to get stronger dilutions from a pharmacist. Stronger dilutions would be used in chemical processes for which the petroleum based product is approved. 100% acetic acid is called "Glacial Acetic Acid" because it freezes into a glass-like solid at about 61-62° Fahrenheit. Incidentally, it is one of the few substances which expands on freezing. Another form of acetic acid is called "Acetic Anhydride". It is made by removing one molecule of water from two molecules of acetic acid. It readily absorbs moisture and converts back into acetic acid. An interesting use of the anhydride is to dissolve polymethylsiloxane. This solution is sold in caulking gun cartridges as "Silicone Sealant". If you ever use silicone sealant or bathtub caulk, provided it is advertised as "Silicone", notice the vinegar smell it produces as it cures.

Thanks. I find this stuff fascinating.
 
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