Question of baking powder and "flavors"!!

[taxlady]

there is a recognized "dry measure" system.

pints, quarts, barrels, etc.

it is not "exactly" the same as liquid measures.

it is also rarely used anywhere any more

and cookbooks on my shelf dating to the 19-aughts define one cup as 8 fluid ounces.

historically "the cup" is a cantankerous measurement.
it has been standardized to mean eight fluid ounces - of flour, air, concrete, whiskey, milk, whatever.

>>there is a difference in size between "weight measure" and "dry measure"
no, and simply because there is no such thing as "a cup by weight measure"

You're right it was a typo and should have said "liquid" where I typed "weight". By the time I noticed that yesterday, it was too late to edit.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Yes, thanks, Andy. That's the point I was trying to make. A cup is a cup, and is the same volume regardless of whether you're measuring liquid or dry ingredients.

'Tis true, a cup is a cup. But if you're going for absolute accuracy, the method by which you judge when a dry measuring cup is full, and when a liquid measuring cup is full, is different.

When measuring dry ingredients, with a measuring cup designed to measure such things, overfill the measuring cup. Then use a straight edge implement to scrape excess ingredients back into their holding container. Take care that lumps do create little channels. The top of the ingredients will fill the measuring cup completely.

If you want to measure something wet in the same measuring cup, you must fill the cup with liquid, to the brim, and just a little above, letting the surface tension of the liquid keep it from spilling over. This is challenging, by can be done. Then you have an accurate liquid measurement in your dry measuring cup.

With the measuring cup designed for wet ingredients, you can only approximate dry measurements. You can get pretty close. For liquids measured in the same cup, you fill the measuring cup with the liquid until the sides of the liquid just touch the measuring marks. If you look closely, you will notice that the liquid climbs the side, just a bit, and is taller than the liquid at the center. Again, this is due to surface tension of the liquid, and the measuring cup is designed with this in mind. Bring the liquid up to the measuring marks, where the liquid touches the sides.

I didn't take all those science and engineering courses for nothing you know. It's so I could accurately measure in the kitchen.

Oh, wait, I don't use my measuring cups much. I guestimate.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[dcSaute]

>>'Tis true, a cup is a cup. But if you're going for absolute accuracy, the method by which you judge when a dry measuring cup is full, and when a liquid measuring cup is full, is different.

please point out any (internet or not) source that offers a "dry cup" and a "wet cup" measuring device.

in cooking terms a cup has been long defined.

if one wishes to argue whether the Egyptian cubit cup equivalent is different from the Moroccan cubit equivalent, have at it.

just be aware that a cup in cooking terms has been defined; that other measures with similar names exist does not change that.

oh, and I _did_ take all those engineering and science course for a reason.

 

[Addie]

So, you are saying that flour, sugar, etc. are actually measured in liquid cups as opposed to dry cups?

If you fill a dry cup to the top and slide a knife across the top and then dump into a wet cup, shake it until level, they will measure exactly the same.

 

[dcSaute]

>>If you fill a dry cup to the top and slide a knife across the top and then dump into a wet cup, shake it until level, they will measure exactly the same.

my comment, above:
>>please point out any (internet or not) source that offers a "dry cup" and a "wet cup" measuring device.

 

[taxlady]

>>'Tis true, a cup is a cup. But if you're going for absolute accuracy, the method by which you judge when a dry measuring cup is full, and when a liquid measuring cup is full, is different.

please point out any (internet or not) source that offers a "dry cup" and a "wet cup" measuring device.

Is this what you mean?
Cups for measuring dry ingredients

Cups for measuring liquid ingredients

in cooking terms a cup has been long defined.

if one wishes to argue whether the Egyptian cubit cup equivalent is different from the Moroccan cubit equivalent, have at it.

just be aware that a cup in cooking terms has been defined; that other measures with similar names exist does not change that.

oh, and I _did_ take all those engineering and science course for a reason.

What is the definition of a cup in cooking terms?

I assume that would be in the US. There are old English and Canadian recipes that used cups and they were not the same size.

 

[taxlady]

So, you are saying that flour, sugar, etc. are actually measured in liquid cups as opposed to dry cups?

If you fill a dry cup to the top and slide a knife across the top and then dump into a wet cup, shake it until level, they will measure exactly the same.

So, the answer to my question is "yes".

 

[Addie]

So, the answer to my question is "yes".

It is in the best interest of the recipe to measure dry ingredients in dry cups used for measuring dry ingredients. In a pinch, if you didn't have the dry ingredient cups, you could get by using the wet ingredient cup.

 

[taxlady]

It is in the best interest of the recipe to measure dry ingredients in dry cups used for measuring dry ingredients. In a pinch, if you didn't have the dry ingredient cups, you could get by using the wet ingredient cup.

But, the unit of measure is fluid cups. That was what I was asking about.

If you go back to early in this discussion, you will see that I am well aware of the use of dry measuring cups. I posted a description of how to use them.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

>>'Tis true, a cup is a cup. But if you're going for absolute accuracy, the method by which you judge when a dry measuring cup is full, and when a liquid measuring cup is full, is different.

please point out any (internet or not) source that offers a "dry cup" and a "wet cup" measuring device.

in cooking terms a cup has been long defined.

if one wishes to argue whether the Egyptian cubit cup equivalent is different from the Moroccan cubit equivalent, have at it.

just be aware that a cup in cooking terms has been defined; that other measures with similar names exist does not change that.

oh, and I _did_ take all those engineering and science course for a reason.

This site - Liquid Measures Versus Dry Measures | Everyday Life - Global Post explains the same thing I did. There are simply measuring cups designed for liquids, and measuring cups designed for dry ingredients. They are the same volume. I'm not arguing with you. I simply stated that it's easier to measure dry ingredients in one type of device, and wet ingredients in the other. The nit-picking part was purely tongue in cheek. I wouldn't expect anyone to be as exact as I was describing in cooking.

My reference to my scientific and engineering backgrounds was supposed to add an air of ridiculousness to what what I was posting. The idea that one has to be so very precise in measuring out ingredients for cooking is silly. Not that I also said that I usually guess at most of my measurements.

That said, I was taught to measure carefully by the techniques I stated. The methodology is accurate, at least by the schools I attended.

Please don't be condescending. I wasn't challenging you in any way. If your post was supposed to be light hearted (and I hope it was), then I misread your intent.

If you go on Google, and put in liquid vs dry measurments, you will see a host of sites that describe the differing cups, and why they are easier to use for their intended purpose.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[dcSaute]

it was light heart -

but that fact remains that "different" measuring devices for cups liquid vs cups dry do not exist. nor have they ever existed.

"dry measures" do not pertain to cooking.

you can buy a dry pint or dry quart of strawberries -

the concept of "striking level" a pint of strawberries does not exist.

reading the meniscus of a "dry pint" of strawberries does not exist.

give up all hope ye who entertain "dry" measures as any even in the slightest millifraction different to "one cup = 8 fluid ounces"

 

[Andy M.]

it was light heart -

but that fact remains that "different" measuring devices for cups liquid vs cups dry do not exist. nor have they ever existed...

You are correct. They are not different in capacity. They are different in design. Dry measure cups are made to hold exactly the amount indicated. That's why they come in groups of cups of different sizes. A wet measure cup is graduated to show different volume levels in the container and you are required to fill to the appropriate level.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

If you place whole strawberries into a dry measuring cup, you obviously won't get an accurate measurment of the volume taken up in the cup. The is air between each berry. However, when you place a solid, that has some of the properties of a fluid, i.e. flour, cornstarch, rice, etc, with very small granules, there is minimal space between the particles. It fills the cup. When you overfill the dry measuring cup, and then scrape the top to make the contents level with the rim of the cup, you have an accurate measurement, or at least a pretty close measurement. The only way to achieve a very accurate dry measure is by weight, as there is still air in lighter dry ingredients, such as flour. If you jiggle the dry measure cup, or tap it lightly on a hard surface, after filling it with sifted flour, you will see the contents tack together, or settle, and not completely fill the cup anymore.

But I think we are splitting hairs here. And I'm glad that all this was done with a bit of dry humor. I reinforces my position that this is the best site for cooking on the WWW.:mrgreen:

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[taxlady]

If you place whole strawberries into a dry measuring cup, you obviously won't get an accurate measurment of the volume taken up in the cup. The is air between each berry. However, when you place a solid, that has some of the properties of a fluid, i.e. flour, cornstarch, rice, etc, with very small granules, there is minimal space between the particles. It fills the cup. When you overfill the dry measuring cup, and then scrape the top to make the contents level with the rim of the cup, you have an accurate measurement, or at least a pretty close measurement. The only way to achieve a very accurate dry measure is by weight, as there is still air in lighter dry ingredients, such as flour. If you jiggle the dry measure cup, or tap it lightly on a hard surface, after filling it with sifted flour, you will see the contents tack together, or settle, and not completely fill the cup anymore.

But I think we are splitting hairs here. And I'm glad that all this was done with a bit of dry humor. I reinforces my position that this is the best site for cooking on the WWW.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

But strawberries are measured in dry units of measure when they are being sold. You are right Chief, it won't be a very accurate measurement.

I have made catsup from a recipe that called for a peck of tomatoes. Peck is a dry measure equal to 8 dry quarts and equal to 9.3 fluid quarts.

This is all very confusing. There are two types of volume measure in the US. One is fluid/liquid and the other is dry, and they use most of the same names. I have now learned that in cooking we use the liquid units of measure, even when we are measuring dry ingredients. We use a different style of measuring device for dry measure, because it is more convenient/accurate.

I much prefer metric recipes that use weight for (most) dry ingredients and volume for liquid ingredients.