How to make soft sorbet

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sbwannabe

Assistant Cook
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
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3
Help!! I want to make good home made sorbet and I have been trying many different recipes, but all of them result in hard sorbet after it has been frozen for 24 hrs. I have tried changing the sugar content and adding corn syrup, but still the sorbet is hard, not smooth and silky like you get from bought sorbet. Is it my freezer, or my ice cream maker, or recipe, or just me???? Help it is driving me crazy
thanks:wacko:
 
I was hoping to be able to store it for a few days. Isnt this possible??
:ermm:
 
Home freezers make it difficult to keep food properly frozen while keeping ice cream and sorbets at a servable consistency.

Don't compromise a good recipe to get a softer consistency. Take the container out of the freezer for a few minutes before serving to give it a chance to soften.
 
So how do commercial sorbets stay smooth and soft even when they are in a home freezer?
Actually what I would really like to do is sell sorbets at small markets we have in the area, but is it possible to only use a home freezer or do you need a commercial one. I'm a stay at home mum lucky enough to be living in the tropics at the moment and would really like to start a small home based business. I have been making sorbets for my family and have come up with some great recipes and would love to sell them, but Im having trouble getting them to the next level, ie a product that is good enough to sell. I have the flavour, but not the texture.
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
:rolleyes:
 
I use egg whites in some of my recipes, I'm not sure if that alone makes them soft, but they do retain a nice silky texture. I usually just take out what I need about 15 minutes before serving and let it defrost a tad. Quite often it is chemicals and preservatives (stablizers) that give store bought sorbet that "semi-soft" feeling you are aiming for :) (BTW, congrats on wanting to start up your own enterprise, I wish you tons of luck!)
 
In fact, it is a food-grade (at least that's what we are told) anti-freeze that keeps comercially produced frozen products from becomeing too hard. I believe it's propylene glychol, but could be mistaken. A quick Google Search should tell you what you want to know. Whatever the name of the anti-freeze, it is sold in many automotive and department stores as a non-toxic "green" replacement for conventional anti-freeze for your car.

It seems that the sweet aroma and flavor of the toxic stuff is enjoyed by dogs, and if spilled can poison our love pets. And then there's the green version that is supposed to be harmless to animals and humans. But I don't see anyone drinking the stuff.

Home produced sorbet, ice creams, gellatoe, sherberts, etc. are usually eaten fresh from the ice-cream maker, and if storage is required, are allowed to warm to a soft stage bevore serving.

I got an ice-cream maker several Christmases back and had the same problems. I expected the ice cream to remain soft in the freezer. I tried custard based ice-creams, heavy cream, milk, and a host of recipes, none of which gave me soft ice cream or frozen deserts. Then I found out through research that it is nearly impossible to make home-made ice cream that stores well, that is, remains soft in the freezer.

I hate to post this as I know it's not the answer you want to read, but it is what it is.

I just looked at the ingredient list on a carton of ice cream in my freezer. For stabilisors it contains cellulose gell, cellulose gum, mono and diglycerides, and lactitol. Don't know about you, but I haven't seen these things on my local supermarket shelves.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
Goodweed of the North said:
In fact, it is a food-grade (at least that's what we are told) anti-freeze that keeps comercially produced frozen products from becomeing too hard. I believe it's propylene glychol, but could be mistaken. A quick Google Search should tell you what you want to know. Whatever the name of the anti-freeze, it is sold in many automotive and department stores as a non-toxic "green" replacement for conventional anti-freeze for your car.

It seems that the sweet aroma and flavor of the toxic stuff is enjoyed by dogs, and if spilled can poison our love pets. And then there's the green version that is supposed to be harmless to animals and humans. But I don't see anyone drinking the stuff.

Home produced sorbet, ice creams, gellatoe, sherberts, etc. are usually eaten fresh from the ice-cream maker, and if storage is required, are allowed to warm to a soft stage bevore serving.

I got an ice-cream maker several Christmases back and had the same problems. I expected the ice cream to remain soft in the freezer. I tried custard based ice-creams, heavy cream, milk, and a host of recipes, none of which gave me soft ice cream or frozen deserts. Then I found out through research that it is nearly impossible to make home-made ice cream that stores well, that is, remains soft in the freezer.

I hate to post this as I know it's not the answer you want to read, but it is what it is.

I just looked at the ingredient list on a carton of ice cream in my freezer. For stabilisors it contains cellulose gell, cellulose gum, mono and diglycerides, and lactitol. Don't know about you, but I haven't seen these things on my local supermarket shelves.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Propylene glycol is used in anti-freeze and is also considered safe for use in food applications. It doesn't make it's way into that many foods, though. Much more prevalent (especially in ice cream) is it's close molecular cousin, glycerine. Glycerine, besides being a humectant and powerful freezing point depressor, is completely harmless.

Most of the commercial additives for ice cream have evolved from traditional ingredients and can easily be substituted by the home cook. The commercial outfits utilize these frankeningredients primarily for cost savings. Substitutions for the home cook work just as well, if not better.

Cellulose gel/cellulose gum - Stabilising/Viscosity. Not available to the public but can be subbed with xanthan or guar gum. Gelatin has traditionally played this role but the soluble fiber gums (cellulose, xanthan, guar) do the job more effectively.
Mono and diglycerides - emulsifiers. Egg yolk will accomplish the same thing. If the taste of eggs is undesireable, get some lecithin from the health food store.
Lactitol - a sugar alcohol with superior freezing point depression abilities. Sugar alcohols can be purchased at most health food stores.

I don't know what kind of 'research' you've done on ice cream chemistry, but creating an ice cream at home that stores well/remains scoopable, is not that difficult. There's three areas involved:

1. Air incorporation/viscosity - the more air you can whip into the mix (overrun) the weaker the frozen ice matrix becomes/the easier to scoop. Viscosity gives you the framework to hold air bubbles.
2. Freezing point depression. Ice cream relies on the fact that a substantial portion of it's water never freezes due to the presence of freezing point depressors such as sugar.
3. Emulsification. Ice cream contains fat globules suspended in pockets of water. The larger the fat globules, the larger the pockets of water/the greater tendency for larger ice crystals to form. Larger crystals = grainy mouthfeel as well as less scoopability. Emulsifiers break down the fat into smaller globules, which in turn, creates smaller pockets of water.

As sorbet is traditionally fat free, emulsification becomes less of an issue and overrun/freezing point depression become critical. Scoopable sorbet that stores well is definitely feasible, though. I know this for certain. I've helped tens of home cooks achieve scoopable ice cream. With the right ingredients/process it's easy to end up with ice cream that's too soft. That's what happens with most of my clients. They have to back off of the freezing point depressors/air to give the ice cream a little more 'tooth.'
 
Here's two quick fix methods to get a softer homemade sorbet:
  • Sugar - As noted in a previous post regarding ice cream, sugar will depress the water crystals from freezing so adding more sugar will help the sorbet achieve a softer consistency
  • Alcohol - Alcohol will also help depress the freezing. Try adding a complimentary flavored alcohol to the sorbet (Citron, Chambord, Midori, Cointreau, etc.)
 
Scott123, I am humbled and thankful for the info you presented in your post. It is interesting and timely. It will get me started making my own ice-cream again. Unfortunately, I won't be able to use sugar as an ingredient as I am diabetic. But with the help of some sugar alcohols, glycerine, and other various gums (I have guar and xantham gums in the cupboard), I just might be succefull yet.

Do you have any advise on how much of these ingredients to use per unit liquid? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
Just a quick tip, when i make sorbet at my restaurant, to make sure the proportions of water, citrus juice and sugar are correct, I float an egg in the mix. What to look for is a dime size part of the egg to stick out of the liquid. If it is smaller, add more sugar, if it is larger, add more liquid. hope this helps
 
Goodweed of the North said:
Scott123, I am humbled and thankful for the info you presented in your post. It is interesting and timely. It will get me started making my own ice-cream again. Unfortunately, I won't be able to use sugar as an ingredient as I am diabetic. But with the help of some sugar alcohols, glycerine, and other various gums (I have guar and xantham gums in the cupboard), I just might be succefull yet.

Do you have any advise on how much of these ingredients to use per unit liquid? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Sugar free, huh? You're in luck because sugar free ice cream is my specialty. I kid you not :)

What kind of sweeteners do you have on hand? I'm assuming you've got splenda, right? Which sugar alcohol(s) do you work with? How is your tolerance to sugar alcohols? Do they laxate you? Do they spike your blood sugar? In a way sugar alcohols are better for making ice cream due to their superior freezing point depression capabilities. They do have some issues such as a cooling effect and tendency to crystallize when used in large amounts so I normally recommend them as only part of the sweetening mix.

Cold numbs the taste buds, so quite a bit more sweetener is used in frozen confections than in recipes served at room temp. Because of the quantity of sweetener necessary for ice cream, splenda's metallic aftertaste can become quite pronounced. Splenda + a sugar alcohol + one more sweetener is ideal from a quality of taste perspective. Ace k makes a great third sweetener when used in small amounts.

The commercial sugar free manufacturers are big on polydextrose. Are you familiar with it? That's what I use in ice cream. It's great for creating sugary texture and helps promote scoopability but isn't absolutely essential.

I've got a few good ice cream recipes. They're all fairly sweetener specific, though. Once we hammer out the sweeteners you want to use, I'll track down some recipes for you.
 
Maltitol, Xylitol, and Lactitol seem to be the sugar alcohols best suited to making ice cream (judgement made by researching sugar alcohols and their properties, on-line). I have used DaibetiSweet and found it suitable for other cooking chores. But it is a combination of Isomalt and Acesulfame K. The problem with isomal, according to the article I read, is that it does not dissolve well, or absorb water. It remains hard and crystaline.

I'm sure that I could find a source for the other, above listed sugar alcohols. And yes, I do have Splenda in the house. I believe that Maltitol would be the polyol of choice as it is said to provide a creamy texture to foods.

What sugar alcohol is your favorite, or do you have one?

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
Well, there's two sides of the coin here regarding which sugar alcohol is best for ice cream. For the best tasting ice cream, definitely maltitol. Maltitol is, by a landslide, the best tasting/most sugar-like sugar alcohol there is. It's also a no brainer 1 for 1 sub with sugar. In a perfect world, all us sugar free devotees could just switch to maltitol and that would be that. Unfortunately, maltitol has issues :( It's laxating. Sensitivity varies from person to person, but for a pretty good chunk of the population, maltitol represents abdominal pain/porcelain throne time. Even if you're one of the lucky ones that can consume it without gastric repercussions, there's still glycemic impact to deal with. I don't always agree with Mendosa, but in this instance, he's on the money when he talks about the glycemic impact of sugar alcohols:

http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs/

Bottom line, depending on the individual, maltitol can be high glycemic and/or laxating. Maltitol doesn't laxate me, but it gives me a major sugar rush. I don't measure my bg, but the feeling is quite pronounced. Maltitol syrup is even worse. I get a huge buzz and then crash viciously. Lactitol, on the other hand, tears my insides apart. Xylitol has a lot of devotees and is widely available, but unfortunately it's still in that potentially laxating/potentially bg spiking gray area. Isomalt- same deal. All sugar alcohols are potentially laxating/bg spiking... with the exception of erythritol. Because erythritol follows a different pathway through the body, it doesn't cause laxation or a rise in blood sugar. It's one of a kind in this way. It's expensive, unavailable locally, it crystallizes in a heartbeat and can have a 'cooling effect' if not handled properly, but you can serve it to company and not worry about sending someone to the bathroom and it's wicked low carb/low calorie/low GI. I don't use a great deal of it, but it holds a very honored place in my sweetener pantheon.

If this ice cream is only going to be for you and you're perfectly fine with any potential ramifications from the maltitol, then maltitol it shall be :) A maltitol based ice cream should be pretty easy.

Polydextrose and erythritol make totally kick butt desserts, but they can get a little complicated/intimidating. If people are looking for the absolute best in sweetening with the fewest potential tradeoffs and are willing to put in the money, time and effort, polyd and erythritol are the direction that I point them in. For the less adventuresome, I stear those people towards ace k (Acesulfame K). Ace K, brand name Sweet One, improves the taste of splenda exponentially, is cheap and is relatively easy to find locally. It may be hard to imagine the taste of splenda being improved upon with the addition of other sweeteners, but once you give them a try, the difference is night and day- especially with bitter items like unsweetened chocolate or frozen applications.

Right now, my sweetener blend of choice contains liquid splenda, erythritol, ace k and polyd. There's some sweeteners on the horizon that might improve upon it (tagatose could be promising), but for the moment, I believe that there is nothing better for recreating the taste and the texture of sugar. It's in a class by itself.

Btw, what are you're feelings about fructose? I'm very anti-fructose because of the long term health issues associated with it. This being said, it amplifies sweetness when frozen and works wonderfully in ice cream in very small amounts. The key words being 'very small amounts.' If you're open to it, I'd recommend obtaining some for the sole purpose of ice cream making.
 
I generally stay away from fruictose as it is a true sugar and tends to spike BG very rapidly. But, unlike sugar, it is metabolysed by the body without a need for insulin. High-fruictose corn syrup is one of the most unhealthy sugars available on the market, and is used in so many sweet products.

And thanks for the info on the sugar alcohols. And yes, too many chocolates made with maltitol can send me scurrying to the porceline throne. But in moderation, I have succesfully consumed it.

And I found a site that sells erythritol, and so it isn't beyond reach, though I don't remember the price.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
So far, the best price I have found on erythritol is here.

I guess one of the reasons why I stay clear of maltitol is that I have problems with portion control. If you can consume it in moderation, all power to you.

So... a maltitol based ice cream it will be. Maltitol, glycerin and xantham gum are officially confirmed ingredients. I think we're almost there- just a couple more things to hammer out.

Regarding the term 'sugar free.' What about the lactose in milk? Do you drink milk? Will a cream/milk based ice cream recipe work for you?

And, lastly, where are you with fat? Please tell me that you're okay with a relatively high fat ice cream. I can help you with a low fat formula, but it'll be so much harder to do well.

Oh, and what brand/size of ice cream maker do you own?
 
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I'm ok with both fat and milk. Again, portion control, and how often I consume the portion is key. So, let's see if I can make a soft, scoopable ice cream.

Oh, and thanks for your help.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
 
Quite often it is chemicals and preservatives (stablizers) that give store bought sorbet that "semi-soft" feeling you are aiming for

I agree, you might just want to write on a small label explaining that this is a home made high quality product that may have a tendance to be a bit harder than the commercial brands. Please consider taking it out of the freezer fifteen minutes prior to consuming, if you can wait that long.

:rolleyes:
 

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