Perfect Sorbets

[Rockyuk]

Hi Everyone,
I am trying to perfect my Sorbet recipes, I make pure fruit ones and ones mixed with alcohol. My issue and always has been is the freezing part they just freeze too hard. I have recently started to use Liquid Glucose and has not made a major difference maybe due to the amounts I am using. I would like to get some tips on how to make a good sorbet with and without alcohol please?

If adding things like Liquid Glucose how should it be measured? I am based in the UK so can we use UK metrics and ingredients if possible please as it would be easier for me to work out.

Thankyou all in advance

Rockyuk

 

[dragnlaw]

Can't believe you have received no answer yet. I'm certainly not an expert in sorbets but I have made them once or twice.

I think the secret is to stir them when half frozen. Scrap at it with a fork. Do this several times. It incorporates air and keeps it from becoming solid.

If it does get solid just be sure to take it out of the freezer way before you need to serve and let it become pliable again.

My sorbets are just fruit and simple syrup (1cup sugar/1cup water) plus a squirt of lemon. I've never used alcohol.

I could be really wrong on this but I rather imagine commercial sorbet's have guar gum or something to that effect, added to keep it pliable.

Hope this helps somehow!

 

[dragnlaw]

I've never used alcohol.

I'm such a liar!! I just meant in a sorbet...

 

[Rockyuk]

Hi dragnlawm
Thankyou for your reply it is much appreciated, another quick question from the day of the production of the sorbet how long will it last on average use by date?

 

[jennyema]

Look at this thread

FRUIT SORBET - Home Cooking Dish of the Month, August 2016 - Chowhound

 

[dragnlaw]

It is only sugar and fruit and water - it will last forever. Might get gummy with age as water evaporates - especially in a frost free fridge. But I'm pretty sure it will be gone before then!

I went to the site suggested by jennye and from there to another site - seems they use an ice cream machine. Plus they juice their fruit and add sugar to that. I didn't go any further nor read it in depth but it certainly would be a good place for you to start! I'm sure you will find some good tips and ideas.

Let us all know what kind you make and how it goes!

 

[Rockyuk]

Here is a picture of one of my creations I am just trying to perfect my recipes. I only use exotic fruit this one is yellow pitahaya.

 

[dragnlaw]

Isn't pitahay also known as "dragonfruit"?

oops posted too soon... it certainly looks scrumptious !!

 

[Rockyuk]

That's correct this is the sweet version ��

 

[dragnlaw]

Hey! I'm sweet! mostly...

 

[jeffnc]

I assume you mean long term. If you mix it in an ice cream churn, it will get properly smooth. What I normally do is make it in the churn (it goes a lot faster in mine if you make a pint rather than a quart), then transfer to a bowl that has been sitting in the freezer, and freeze it for awhile more. But like you said, if you leave this overnight it will get quite hard. Microwaving on low can soften it. I assume this happens as compared to store brands because I don't have artificial ingredients in there meant to keep it a certain texture.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Often, commercial foods such as ice cream, sherbets, and sorbets contain Propylene Glycol, a non-toxic, safe to consume antifreeze. This agent controls the formation of ice crystals, thus making a creamier, softer texture. The addition of air by Changchun the ice crea, sherbet, or sorbet by using an ice cream maker, further improves the texture.

Propylene Glycol is available, and can be purchased online. Here is a site that explains the difference between no-toxic Propylene Glycoln, and toxic Ethylene glycol. https://www.bestfoodfacts.org/is-propylene-glycol-the-same-as-antifreeze/ It is interesting to me that the oxalic acid spoken of in the article is the same toxic compound found in rhubarb leaves, and uncooked spinach. In fact, raw spinach, because of the oxalic acid, inhibits the ability of the gut to absorb nutrients of the foods consumed with it. Uncooked spinach really isn't good for us to eat, though many use it in salads. But yet again, I digress.

Certain gums and starches will also help control ice crystal formation in frozen deserts, as will egg yolk. Though egg yolk, starches, and gums will work in ice cream, and gelato, I think only gums, such as quar or xanthum gums would work in sorbets. Thr only starch I would consider is maybe tapioca starch.

Well, you have my 2 cents. I hope it helps.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[jeffnc]

It's interesting because I used to wonder how brands like Breyer's and Ben and Jerry's did it. Breyer's was always "all natural" yet you were still able to scoop it out of the container. I'm not sure how they did that. There is no way to test that now because in 2006 (and again in 2013 I think) they changed the recipe to include all kinds of fillers. It used to say "all natural ice cream". Now it says "frozen dairy dessert". The "half gallon" also switched to 1.5 quarts in there somewhere too, but I digress.


I also wondered about Ben and Jerry's because I have their recipe book, or at least the one they sold at retail, and I can assure you the ingredients they list in the recipe book do not match the ingredients on the store bought label. The recipe book is of course all normal, natural ingredients. But it definitely does not match the texture of their store bought ice cream once frozen over night. (The recipes do include egg yolk.)

 

[HeyItsSara]

also they use huge commercial machines. so different then home ones

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Premium ice creams have less air whipped into them. But they may also include various starches and gums, and still be called all natural. The starches help control the size of the sugar crystals. Even the egg yolks in French vanilla ice cream serve the same purpose. Also, the higher percentage of cream in ice cream help make the product more pliable.

Think of ice cream as a very dense and cold whipped cream. Guar and xanthum gum work in synergy to make the ice cream softer, and stabilize the texture. Egg yolk are an emulsifier, and add both protein and fat, which again help stabilize the ice cream tessture. Here's a site that explains this better - https://cooking.stackexchange.com/q...-a-magic-ingredient-that-keeps-ice-cream-soft

I hope this helps.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[jeffnc]

That's why some of the premium brands (e.g. Haagen Dazs) are so hard to scoop - very solid. Also less air means more ice cream - a quart of Haagen Dazs weighs more than a quart of typical ice cream.

Ingredients for Haagen Dazs vanilla:
cream, skim milk, cane sugar, egg yolks, vanilla extract


(That is basically the recipe in the Ben and Jerry's book, but not in their real stuff, which adds guar gum and carrageenan.)

 

[taxlady]

That's why some of the premium brands (e.g. Haagen Dazs) are so hard to scoop - very solid. Also less air means more ice cream - a quart of Haagen Dazs weighs more than a quart of typical ice cream.

Ingredients for Haagen Dazs vanilla:
cream, skim milk, cane sugar, egg yolks, vanilla extract


(That is basically the recipe in the Ben and Jerry's book, but not in their real stuff, which adds guar gum and carrageenan.)

I find that, generally speaking, the ice creams with stuff like gums and other stuff that I wouldn't put into ice cream that I make, don't taste as good as the ones that don't have that stuff. Put more of that weird stuff into the ice cream and it won't need as much of the good tasting ingredients to make something that can be called ice cream and scoops nicely.

 

[WhateverYouWant]

In a word… "COLD". Häagen-Dazs does not use any stabilizers (other than egg yolks in their ice cream), and it has arguably the finest texture of any ice cream/sorbet out there. But they use blast freezers capable of -40° that virtually eliminates re-crystallization, and that's a lot colder than anything we have available in the home (unless you're adventurous enough to experiment with liquid nitrogen). They also seal their containers from air using a plastic membrane.

Get your mixture very cold before adding it to the maker. Turn the freezer to as low as it will go before you freeze your insert overnight. Also freeze the paddle and anything else that comes in contact with the mixture, including the vessel you end up storing it in. When adding the frozen mixture to that vessel, place plastic wrap on top to actually contact the sorbet to prevent any air between the top of the sorbet and the lid to inhibit re-crystallization.

The mixture gets icy when small crystals melt and refreeze into bigger ones. This can happen in the freezing process if things aren't cold enough, as well as when stored in a self defrosting freezer. If you have a powerful blender or food processor, freezing the fruit solid beforehand and blending with sugar/juice just before adding to the maker also helps. In fact, since getting a VitaMix and using frozen fruit, I rarely make sorbet in the ice cream maker anymore as I can whip up a near perfect texture batch in just a couple of minutes using just fruit and sugar syrup. Of course that doesn't work for sorbets that are strictly juice based (orange, lemon, lime, etc.), but I much prefer them from berries and various tropical fruits.

So while alcohol and or corn syrup will help lower re-crystallization, I think cold and fast is your best friend here. And when storing, best to use the plastic wrap and ideally a insulated container.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

In a word… "COLD". Häagen-Dazs does not use any stabilizers (other than egg yolks in their ice cream), and it has arguably the finest texture of any ice cream/sorbet out there. But they use blast freezers capable of -40° that virtually eliminates re-crystallization, and that's a lot colder than anything we have available in the home (unless you're adventurous enough to experiment with liquid nitrogen). They also seal their containers from air using a plastic membrane.

Get your mixture very cold before adding it to the maker. Turn the freezer to as low as it will go before you freeze your insert overnight. Also freeze the paddle and anything else that comes in contact with the mixture, including the vessel you end up storing it in. When adding the frozen mixture to that vessel, place plastic wrap on top to actually contact the sorbet to prevent any air between the top of the sorbet and the lid to inhibit re-crystallization.

The mixture gets icy when small crystals melt and refreeze into bigger ones. This can happen in the freezing process if things aren't cold enough, as well as when stored in a self defrosting freezer. If you have a powerful blender or food processor, freezing the fruit solid beforehand and blending with sugar/juice just before adding to the maker also helps. In fact, since getting a VitaMix and using frozen fruit, I rarely make sorbet in the ice cream maker anymore as I can whip up a near perfect texture batch in just a couple of minutes using just fruit and sugar syrup. Of course that doesn't work for sorbets that are strictly juice based (orange, lemon, lime, etc.), but I much prefer them from berries and various tropical fruits.

So while alcohol and or corn syrup will help lower re-crystallization, I think cold and fast is your best friend here. And when storing, best to use the plastic wrap and ideally a insulated container.

So what you're saying is that I should wait until a -15 to -30 degree F' February day, and put my ice cream maker outside on the ramp landing. But then I wi; need a cujp of hot cocoa to warm me up afterwards.

See, there are things we can do up here in the North that the rest of you more southern folks can't.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[jeffnc]

Get your mixture very cold before adding it to the maker. Turn the freezer to as low as it will go before you freeze your insert overnight. Also freeze the paddle and anything else that comes in contact with the mixture, including the vessel you end up storing it in.

That's all good advice.

So while alcohol and or corn syrup will help lower re-crystallization

Actually the sorbet recipe I had included some rum, and I wondered what leaving the alcohol out might do. I wasn't sure if it was just in there for the flavor.