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Old 03-30-2005, 10:26 AM   #41
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Next time i'm going for that meatloof mixture of beef, pork, and veal! Small tweaks like you all said will come next. Finding out the perfect spices
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:07 PM   #42
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some of my favorite spices (in different combinations) in sauce are: oregano, basil, parsley, marjoram, thyme, savory, and red pepper flakes.
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:10 PM   #43
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I cant believe I forgot to mention this trick in my earlier posts.

Save the rinds from parmegianio reggiano cheese. I keep mine in the freezer.

Toss a cheese rind in the sauce and let it simmer in while the sauce cooks.

Yummo!
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:58 PM   #44
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does it melt and disintegrate into the sauce, or stay together in some form, jenny?that sounds really good. if i have some cheese and italian bread around when i'm making sauce, i always butter a piece of bread, sprinkle on the cheese, dip it in the sauce, and as the sauce runs down, it melts the butter and cheese to perfection.... oh man, i need to make sauce soon.
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Old 03-30-2005, 01:02 PM   #45
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It gets really soft and melty and sloughs off into the sauce. But stays in one piece so you can fish it out in the end.

It gives a great layer of flavor to the sauce!
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Old 03-30-2005, 08:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema
It gets really soft and melty and sloughs off into the sauce. But stays in one piece so you can fish it out in the end.

It gives a great layer of flavor to the sauce!
jennyema, I save all my left over parm rinds and put some into pots of minestrone..YUMMY.. I love that stringy soft cheese
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Old 03-31-2005, 12:11 PM   #47
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Yum, kadesma!

I put it in pasta fagioli, ribollita and other Italian bean soups, as well.

Parmesan is another source of UMAMI, the "fifth taste" (savory), which is why it makes such a nice addition.

UMAMI http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...s/T/Taste.html
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Old 03-31-2005, 08:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jennyema
Yum, kadesma!

I put it in pasta fagioli, ribollita and other Italian bean soups, as well.

Parmesan is another source of UMAMI, the "fifth taste" (savory), which is why it makes such a nice addition.

UMAMI http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...s/T/Taste.html
jenny, haven;t had the chance to read all this thread, but so far find it interesting..My m-i-l was Italian and my mother french and irish..but both have ravioli sauce almost identical..They both use either 2lbs. of stew meat or a 2 lb. chuck roast (fat removed) onions, garlic, thyme,rosemary, marjoram,basil, parsley, evoo but their main thing is imported porcini muchrooms..The broth from these mushrooms gives our sauce a distinct "brown" color..I find that most people who say they don't like Italian, are those who have only eaten the canned sauces or those restaruants where the sauces are "RED" you know open a can of tomato sauce add nothing and dump it on types,... what a shame, wish they could have tasted my mom's or m-i-l's or my home made ravs and sauce...what a treat.
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:26 AM   #49
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if savory is the fifth taste, what are the other four?
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Old 04-05-2005, 07:36 AM   #50
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do you always add ground beef? try adding browned pork sirloin chops or rib ends instead, and simmer until they are falling apart. a totally different meat flavor, better imo.
I love adding a pork roast after browning it off and adding it into the sauce, and the only tomatoes I use is a tomato paste, then add water to it, and some basil, sauteed garlic, and maybe just a touch of sugar. The pork gives it so much flavor, and by the time it is done, we usually take the pork out and it is nice and shredded, and we usually have that for a meal also!!!
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Old 04-05-2005, 08:14 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpinmaryland
if savory is the fifth taste, what are the other four?
beer, salt, grease, and chocolate
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbug
beer, salt, grease, and chocolate

I thought these were the 4 FOOD GROUPS! With BEER forming the base of the food pyramid!

LOL

The 4 other tastes are sweet, salty, sour and bitter
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Old 04-05-2005, 03:20 PM   #53
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what is the difference between salty and bitter? I thought salt was the source of bitterness?
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Old 04-05-2005, 04:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpinmaryland
what is the difference between salty and bitter? I thought salt was the source of bitterness?
Sodium is the only thing that tastes salty. There's nothing else that can do that. Only sodium. The other 3 senses on our toungues, can be a combination of things or come from different places. For example, sour can come from vinegar, lemons, etc. But salty tastes comes from salt.
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:40 PM   #55
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Hmm this articles suggests 6 tastes, but does not include spicy (or savory as referred to above). It gives umami (basically MSG) as 5th and fat as the 6th!

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ne...et-sour-bitter

how is it that spicy-hot is not a taste?
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:56 PM   #56
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okay some sites list unami = savory. I think the japanese word means something akin to savory.

Okay so far so good, but what happened to spicy/hot? Isnt this a taste?
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Old 04-07-2005, 12:23 AM   #57
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umami = savory (general description)

umami is not MSG. But MSG lends food a umami taste. So does soy sauce, miso, parmesan cheese, etc.


i'd say heat is a sensation, not a taste
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Old 04-07-2005, 02:15 PM   #58
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or it could it just be the opposite of sourness?
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:35 PM   #59
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Heat is indeed a tactile sensation, which is why capsaicum (sp) is used in topical creams. It tricks the nerves into thinking heat is applied to the skin, tounge, lips, etc.

Bitter comes from base, or in other words, from alkaline foods, while sour cames from any of the acids. Sweet of course comes from those compounds that have a chemical make-up very similar to sugar. Salty comes from some sodium base compounds such as sodium chloride, while other sodium based compounds give a bitter, or soapy flavor (sodium bicarbonate).

Most flavors are a combination of the 5 basic flavors, and are heavily influenced by the sense of smell. It has been determined (and the guy won last year's Nobel Prize for his efforts) that smell is a recoginition by the brain of the "firing order" if you will of the many nerve types in the olfactory system. That is, the order that the nerves fire in determines the odor recognized. This info is then combined with information from the taste buds to give you the total "taste" experience.

Ever wonder why food tastes so much better when you're camping? It's because the odors present in the forest, or on the riverbanks, or wherever you are, are associated with pleasure, and enhance and compliment the flavors of the food you are eating.

It's pretty complicated stuff.

Here's something else to throw at you. Vanillan, the artificial vanilla, has a molecular structure identical to vanilla. But it is a sythesized molecule, and is therefore required by law to be labled as an artificial flavoring.

Acids and alkalies both work by either taking from, or adding to the electrons in the outer valence rings of molecules, thereby changing that molecule. If you put copper into sulfuric acid, there is no loss of material. It's just that the copper becomes copper sulfate (really stinky stuff). The metallic copper is no longer a coherent metal, but has become part of an ionic compound. The same thing happens when strong acids or alkalies touch your flesh, or toungue. There is a reaction where your skin, or whatever is affected, either gives up electrons, or is given electrons, which of cours destroys the skin by changing the molecular structure.

That's in fact why baking soda and vinegar produce carbon dioxide bubbles when mixed together. The sodium bicarbonate compound is destroyed, with the sodium held in the acidic suspension, while the stable carbon and oxegen molecules are released within the liquid.

I know, I get a bit tehnical sometimes. But that is essentially what's going on. The explanation may not be exact, but it's close enough to provide a bit of understanding.

If you've ever eaten a piece of extremely sharp cheese, it can leave blisters on your tounge, from the strong acid content. This happened to me after eating some very sharp Swiss Cheese one time. It tasted great to me, but left me with a sore mouth before I knew what was going on. Meat tenderizers such as papain and bromelain do basically the same thing, but specifically with protiens. The protiens are denatured, or altered by the powerful enzymes.

Ok, enough of chemistry 101. Hope I haven't confused anyone.

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Old 04-07-2005, 04:45 PM   #60
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Okay. let me make an update.

Update 1: My spaghetti sauce is the bomb

Update 2:

Hmm. I want to use meatballs for my sauce. When i use my normal sauce, i reduce the sauce realllllll hardcore. So it looks like basically a meat paste... Do you get me? Not thin at all. BUTTTTTTTTTTT next time, i want to do spaghetti and meatballs. How should i alter the sauce? I antipcate i can't make the sauce as reduced and thick if im using meatballs.
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