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Old 11-04-2004, 11:23 PM   #1
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Teflon Flu

I just saw a report that if you heat a teflon pot/pan/ or other container above 500 degrees it releases toxic fumes. In fact it will kill birds when subjected to the fumes. Teflon is also called C-8 (C8). And most everyone has this in their blood stream when tested. This report was on the nightly news here in Chicago.
Are we making ourselves sick???
There are actually symptoms. http://www.medlogs.com/mt/mt-comment...?entry_id=1635 and http://www.legalnewswatch.com/news_204.html

Is this just a story blown out of proportion or is it really serious. Read the articles and tell us what ya think.

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Old 11-04-2004, 11:28 PM   #2
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i think xenon gas is released when non-stick cookware is overheated.

i have read about it for years in parrot-talk magazine. many saddened bird owners reported of the deaths of their birds from it. the only way around it is to keep them away from the kitchen when cooking, and to never heat a non-stick pan too much without something in it.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckytom
i think xenon gas is released when non-stick cookware is overheated.

i have read about it for years in parrot-talk magazine. many saddened bird owners reported of the deaths of their birds from it. the only way around it is to keep them away from the kitchen when cooking, and to never heat a non-stick pan too much without something in it.
Especially a bird
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:33 PM   #4
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Poor dancing chickens. LOL!
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:37 PM   #5
 
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Our reference books on our pet Cockatiel indicates she's at hazard from "burning teflon"...

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Old 11-04-2004, 11:37 PM   #6
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Teflon has evolved over the years into a coating that can stand higher temps than when it was first introduced. I think in the old days 350-F was pushing the upper limit (actually probably above it) but now somewhere around 500-F is probably nominal.

As for cooking with Teflon killing birds ... don't know ... but remember, coal miners used to take a canary down into the mines with them because they would croak in the presence of toxic fumes before the miners ever felt any ill effects.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:04 AM   #7
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If memory serves me right isn't there something about the fumes from a new oven being turned on and them drifting into the air when the oven door is open?
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:25 AM   #8
 
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How could that ever be more "deadly" than the fumes if I did this with my "Old" oven? And opened the door?

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(Chuckling!)
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:15 AM   #9
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Curious I went on google and found this:

Generated PTFE Fumes: A Silent Killer of Birds In Our Care
Without warning or visible vapor in homes, zoos, and wildlife rehabilitation facilities
Informed Action Can Prevent Tragic Deaths
PTFE coatings are sold under the trade names
Teflon, Silverstone, Fluoron, Supra, Excalibar, Greblon, Xylon, and others
From Coal Mines to Kitchens
On Saturday, November 12, 2000, Ron, the owner of eight pet birds, started the self-cleaning oven cycle in preparation for Thanksgiving dinner. His windows were open, in compliance with the oven directions. Two hours later, his son noticed that one of the birds was having trouble standing (all birds were located in a separate room off the kitchen). Four of the birds died quickly in Ron's hands before anything could be done. Opening more windows saved the other birds.
Microscopic lung findings were consistent with the inhalation of toxic chemical fumes. No warnings about release of a toxic gas were found in the oven's directions, but the source of the fumes was the oven's nonstick coating based on PTFE. Confirmed by a necropsy examination, these four pet bird fatalities resulted from normal operation of the cleaning cycle of this PTFE-coated oven (Ramelmeier & Davidson).

With their sensitive respiratory systems, birds have been used to protect us by detecting poison gas since early in the industrial age - the legendary canaries in the coal mines (and in the trenches of World War I) - frequently with lethal outcomes for the birds themselves. Now it is our turn to protect them from a modern hazard.

Those who care for birds need to know about Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) poisoning - the most commonly reported inhalant toxicity in avians (LaBonde).
Fatalities in birds have occurred when PTFE fumes are emitted by self-cleaning ovens, coated cookware, coated baking sheets, newly developed coated light bulbs, coated heat lamps, etc. In protecting birds, we may be protecting ourselves as well. Although much less vulnerable, people also have been poisoned by PTFE fumes (Lee).
Source: members.aol.com/rccouncil/ourpage/rccalert.htm
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:00 AM   #10
 
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This might not be germane but C F Forrester wrote of birds detecting shellfire in his "Hornblower" series, and there are any number of such references of "pet" birds giving warning of both aircraft and shellfire in WWII, long before the "threat" materialised...

I will trade an animal before a human, most days, but regret it badly...

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Old 02-25-2006, 05:33 PM   #11
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We don't use any non-stick just in case...
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Old 02-25-2006, 10:47 PM   #12
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Following is an extract from the EPA's website. It addresses PFOA in the environment and it's relaitonship to teflon. I posted the link at the end of the extract in case you want to read more.


Are there steps that consumers can take to reduce their exposure to PFOA?

At present, there are no steps that EPA recommends that consumers take to reduce exposures to PFOA because the sources of PFOA in the environment and the pathways by which people are exposed are not known. Given the scientific uncertainties, EPA has not yet made a determination as to whether PFOA poses an unreasonable risk to the public. At the present time, EPA does not believe there is any reason for consumers to stop using any consumer or industrial related products that contain PFOA.


PFOA stands for perfluorooctanoic acid, a synthetic (man-made) chemical that does not occur naturally in the environment. PFOA is sometimes called "C8." Companies use PFOA to make fluoropolymers, substances with special properties that have thousands of important manufacturing and industrial applications. Consumer products made with fluoropolymers include non-stick cookware and breathable, all-weather clothing. EPA wants to emphasize that it does not have any indication that the public is being exposed to PFOA through the use of Teflon® -coated and other non-stick cookware. Teflon ® is not PFOA. PFOA is used to make Teflon ® and other non-stick products.

http://www.epa.gov/oppt/pfoa/pfoainfo.htm
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Old 02-26-2006, 11:43 PM   #13
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so all of the dead bird owners were lying or confused?
trusting the epa's indecision and risking the lives of your pets seems a bit short sighted to me.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:51 AM   #14
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I hate to say this, but I didn't know of the effects of teflon until after one of my parakeets died. He was singing in his cage, and one of my boys yelled for me to come outside quickly. The stove was on, the pan had nothing in it. I was gone no more than 3 minutes. Leo the bird was dead. I saw this posting within a month or so after it happened, so I moved the rest of my birds to the other side of the house and monitored my cooking more closely. And, coincidently, I bought new stainless today and put all the teflon out in the garage to get rid of.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:19 AM   #15
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I was not trying to trivialize the loss of a pet. That's a sad an difficult issue to have to deal with. You have to wonder why there aren't any warning labels that come with the stuff.

It's clear that fumes emitted by overheated Teflon can kill small birds. However, that's not what the EPA was addressing. The issue was the chemical PFOA, which is used in the manufacture of Teflon, and whether or not using Teflon will expose consumers to the chemical.
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Old 02-28-2006, 09:35 AM   #16
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sorry andy, i didn't mean to be rude in my response. hope you didn't take it that way, directed at you.
i just didn't want anyone to think that using teflon was ok around birds, big or small.

here's some info on the subject: http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2874
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:04 AM   #17
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I don't know how much C8 is in my blood, I don't know how bad it is. I do know one thing, something that originaly was developed to use on the spaceship, for protection of out layer, cannot posibly good for a human use, let alone ingesting (sp?). Now having said that, I use the non-stick pots and pans all the time. So when I go, (at 120) I'll go happy, not healthy.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:06 AM   #18
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BT:

I didn't think you were rude. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.

This can be very confusing because there are different aspects to the issues.

One of my pet peeves is when spurious science or incomplete information is used to create a product scare.

This happens with Teflon, canola oil, aluminum pans and who knows what else. Many people then take the attitude that they'll just stop using the item "just in case".

This creates a lot of anxiety among consumers that is unnecessary. It makes good press too, which is why we hear about it in the first place.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
BT:

...

This creates a lot of anxiety among consumers that is unnecessary. It makes good press too, which is why we hear about it in the first place.
Right on! !!!!!
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Old 03-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #20
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All I can say is that I use nonstick pans as well as my one stainless saute pan, and I won't give up either without more evidence than the scare tactics that so many media sources are so fond of. We won't ever have to worry about birds in the house, so that isn't an issue. And I NEVER leave any pan unattended on the stove. If I leave the kitchen even for just a moment I'll slide the pan off the burner, not counting a dish that needs to simmer for a couple of hours or more, and even then I'll check on it regularly.
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