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Old 02-14-2016, 01:32 PM   #21
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There are detectable low emissions of PFOA emanating from Teflon non stick cookware. I don't want my food to be anywhere near such sources. Personal choice you understand.
You keep making this statement. It's not true. PFOA is present in the manufacturing process, not the finished product. Did you read the Good Housekeeping article I exerpted?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:33 PM   #22
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Let us know when you figure it out.

Personally, I don't blame the son for the sins of the father, so to speak.
I have more than figured out the atrocious situation of biotech companies producing GM products with its agenda/implications. I was merely hinting here. I have done intense research into it but it is off topic here so will let it be. Rest assured though that I am fully briefed on the subject. Thankfully the general public are slowly waking up too!
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:43 PM   #23
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I have more than figured out the atrocious situation of biotech companies producing GM products with its agenda/implications. I was merely hinting here. I have done intense research into it but it is off topic here so will let it be. Rest assured though that I am fully briefed on the subject. Thankfully the general public are slowly waking up too!
If your research on GM products is as good as your research on PFOAs, you might want to reconsider your sources.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:17 PM   #24
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My favorite nonstick pan is made by scan pan, a danish company. Pans are PFOA-Free and virtually bullet proof.

Most ceramic pans I've used have a brittle coating that is easily damaged but scan pans are the exception in my experience. They have several models and the classic has the most comfortable handle, imo. It's also the cheapest.

Interesting reading about this issue here including a snippet from Consomers Unions testing a few years back of overly hot pans and hazards: Teflon ScanpanCookware.com
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:42 PM   #25
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If your research on GM products is as good as your research on PFOAs, you might want to reconsider your sources.
You are wrong (I have already disclosed that I have done intense research into the GM issue) so there is no need to be condascending.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:45 PM   #26
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My favorite nonstick pan is made by scan pan, a danish company. Pans are PFOA-Free and virtually bullet proof.

Most ceramic pans I've used have a brittle coating that is easily damaged but scan pans are the exception in my experience. They have several models and the classic has the most comfortable handler, imo. It's also the cheapest.

Interesting reading about this issue here including a snippet from Consomers Unions testing a few years back of overly hot pans and hazards: Teflon ScanpanCookware.com
Thanks for this post. Interesting. It is definitely a step up however, I have a genetic lung
condition so the PTFE fumes sound off putting to me. Although it says they are not harmful
I would rather cook with a product that does not have the ability to release any fumes.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:47 PM   #27
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You are wrong (I have already disclosed that I have done intense research into the GM issue) so there is no need to be condascending.
I know you say you've done "research." I also know you're not exactly scientific in your choice of sources or your evaluation of what you've read. You have a disdain for the scientific method and a fondness for magical thinking that color your opinions. Those are facts
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:21 AM   #28
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I know you say you've done "research." I also know you're not exactly scientific in your choice of sources or your evaluation of what you've read. You have a disdain for the scientific method and a fondness for magical thinking that color your opinions. Those are facts
There is no need to put the word research in brackets (in mock fashion) since I have not divulged the extent of my knowledge of the GM issue on this forum hence you have no way of appraising the extent of this research. However it is revealing in how you so wrongly appraise me.

Also you are wrong about my disdain of scientific methods. I do welcome them but they cannot account for everything. I could equally reflect that back at you and say you place to high a regard on science like it is the be and end all...only on certain matters.

Magical thinking embraces such phenomenon as positive thinking. It has transformed my life beyond all recognition (and those of countless others) so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it since this merely highlights your ignorance. It does not colour/affect my opinions on food really though - that is a different category. You may have a bias against organic food though?
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:46 AM   #29
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There is no need to put the word research in brackets (in mock fashion) since I have not divulged the extent of my knowledge of the GM issue on this forum hence you have no way of appraising the extent of this research. However it is revealing in how you so wrongly appraise me.


Your choices of sources you've posted here make your research methods pretty clear.

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Also you are wrong about my disdain of scientific methods. I do welcome them but they cannot account for everything. I could equally reflect that back at you and say you place to high a regard on science like it is the be and end all...only on certain matters.

Magical thinking embraces such phenomenon as positive thinking.
No, it does not. Magical thinking is a logical fallacy. "Magical thinking*is the attribution of causal orsynchronistic*relationships between actions and events which seemingly cannot be justified by reason and observation. Inreligion,*folk religion, and*superstitious*beliefs, the posited correlation is often between religious*ritual,*prayer,*sacrifice, or the observance of a*taboo, and an expected benefit or recompense. In*clinical psychology, magical thinking can cause a patient to experience fear of performing certain acts or having certain thoughts because of an assumed correlation between doing so and threatening calamities. Magical thinking may lead people to believe that their thoughts by themselves can bring about effects in the world or that thinking something corresponds with doing it.[1]*It is a type of*causal reasoningor*causal fallacy*that looks for meaningful relationships of*grouped phenomena(coincidence) between acts and events. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

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It does not colour/affect my opinions on food really though - that is a different category. You may have a bias against organic food though?
Sure it does. You continue to believe that certain pans are dangerous despite plenty of proof to the contrary. In the same way, you ignore the thousands of studies that show GM products are safe.

I have a bias against the unethical marketing of organic food.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:58 AM   #30
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Your choices of sources you've posted here make your research methods pretty clear.
You know nothing of my sources for GM and so speak out of turn. Everyone has a bias, including yourself i.e. to be pro or anti GM. Facts can be gleaned to support both camps. It's a question of who you support.

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Magical thinking is a logical fallacy.
Unfortunately this is a woefully misleading and inadequate term that tries to deride everything that is outside science, i.e. not amenable to being proved in a lab. You seem to imply I am deluded when I am a realist, i.e. I am very wary of being duped (don't foster beliefs as such) but I do acknowledge those that can be led that way. I could just as easily descibe your view as blinkered thinking....

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You continue to believe that certain pans are dangerous despite plenty of proof to the contrary. In the same way, you ignore the thousands of studies that show GM products are safe.

I have a bias against the unethical marketing of organic food.
So now you wrongly misquote me? I have said that the pans in question emit fumes. This is a fact. Where have I said that GM products are not safe? Again another illogical assumption. There is much that can be said about the GM issue but this is not the place.

Re. organic food, here in UK, it has to be labelled. Perhaps you have a different system in US?
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With apologies to Dylan for these interactions going off topic.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:06 AM   #31
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I'm not referring to this single thread. You've said many things and posted many links about these topics.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:11 AM   #32
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Unfortunately this is a woefully misleading and inadequate term that tries to deride everything that is outside science, i.e. not amenable to being proved in a lab. You seem to imply I am deluded when I am a realist, i.e. I am very wary of being duped (don't foster beliefs as such) but I do acknowledge those that can be led that way.
I did not invent the definition. It is what it is.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:23 AM   #33
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I did not invent the definition. It is what it is.
Yes, woefully blinkered.

Never mind, I delight in a transformed life....
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:29 AM   #34
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So now you wrongly misquote me? I have said that the pans in question emit fumes. This is a fact. Where have I said that GM products are not safe? Again another illogical assumption. There is much that can be said about the GM issue but this is not the place.

Re. organic food, here in UK, it has to be labelled. Perhaps you have a different system in US?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With apologies to Dylan for these interactions going off topic.
Used properly, nonstick pans do not give off fumes. You are simply wrong in this. You would only be correct if you insisted on misusing them.

I've never been all that hot on organic foods either. As I see it, it's paying more for what is usually no better quality. If the actual quality is better in a certain product, then I'm willing to spend more for it, but that is a rare case.

I guess I have to say that I've never found a need "transform" my life. I live life as it comes, and so far, it's come along nicely. There have been some bumps in the road, but I have pretty good suspension, so they haven't thrown me off track.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:00 PM   #35
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Used properly, nonstick pans do not give off fumes. You are simply wrong in this. You would only be correct if you insisted on misusing them.

I've never been all that hot on organic foods either. As I see it, it's paying more for what is usually no better quality. If the actual quality is better in a certain product, then I'm willing to spend more for it, but that is a rare case.

I guess I have to say that I've never found a need "transform" my life. I live life as it comes, and so far, it's come along nicely. There have been some bumps in the road, but I have pretty good suspension, so they haven't thrown me off track.
Let's be clear. Non stick pans CAN give off fumes but not if used correctly. Personally the PFOA element turns me off totally from using such a product. I prefer more natural containers.

How do you assess 'no better quality' of organic foods? I guess you don't mind your food being sprayed with synthetic pesticides and chemical fertilisers then. Your choice.
Clear differences between organic and non-organic food, study finds | Environment | The Guardian

I felt a need to transform my life when I became clinically depressed, i.e. found it hard to put one foot in front of the other - to walk. I got myself out of that hole, without drugs, support (I had moved away from friends to be near my college) and by embracing the power of positive thinking and exercising freewill (which were, then, alien to my fatalistic mindset). Never looked back!


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Old 02-15-2016, 01:18 PM   #36
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How do you assess 'no better quality' of organic foods? I guess you don't mind your food being sprayed with synthetic pesticides and chemical fertilisers then. Your choice.
I don't, actually, since they are at least as safe, and in some cases safer, than pesticides approved for use by organic farmers.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.o...dely-use-them/

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/1/203.long

https://risk-monger.blogactiv.eu/201...ganic-farming/

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...l-agriculture/
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:57 PM   #37
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From the article: "Tom Sanders, a professor of nutrition at King's College London, said the research did show some differences. "But the question is are they within natural variation? And are they nutritionally relevant? I am not convinced." He said Leifert's work had caused controversy in the past. "Leifert has had a lot of aggro with a lot of people. He is oversexing [this report] a bit." Sanders also noted that the research showed organic cereals have less protein than conventional crops."
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:05 PM   #38
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I don't, actually, since they are at least as safe, and in some cases safer, than pesticides approved for use by organic farmers.
Haha...one of your links is from a genetic company...hmm. Biaised? Much?

Nothing to do with safety - I just prefer to eat as naturally as possible!
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:23 PM   #39
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Let's be clear. Non stick pans CAN give off fumes but not if used correctly. Personally the PFOA element turns me off totally from using such a product. I prefer more natural containers.

How do you assess 'no better quality' of organic foods? I guess you don't mind your food being sprayed with synthetic pesticides and chemical fertilisers then. Your choice.
Clear differences between organic and non-organic food, study finds | Environment | The Guardian

I felt a need to transform my life when I became clinically depressed, i.e. found it hard to put one foot in front of the other - to walk. I got myself out of that hole, without drugs, support (I had moved away from friends to be near my college) and by embracing the power of positive thinking and exercising freewill (which were, then, alien to my fatalistic mindset). Never looked back!


I married into a farm family. My father-in-law was the first farmer in this region to use anhydrous ammonia fertilizer, and it completely changed his way of looking at growing wheat and corn. His pioneering led to a change in the way the entire region was farmed.

He sprays for pests only when spraying is necessary because it's an extra cost. He doesn't farm any more himself, although he still lives on the farm and takes an active part in the efforts of the brothers who now lease his land. They are now using a manure compost mixture for fertilizer that they get from the many beef feed lots in the area, but any pest control is still done with FDA approved pesticides.

I understand better than I ever did what a tight margin there is between success and failure in farming, and the added cost of trying to grow organically would bankrupt him. Keep in mind that I am talking about dry land grain farming - wheat, corn and millet - no irrigation is possible. He is totally dependent on rainfall and around here it can be hit or miss. The average profit margin is minuscule. If everyone was as focused as you are on organics, he would be out of business, because he could not afford to farm that way.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:03 PM   #40
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We can't feed the world without fertilizer. I recall a comment on the radio that we could only produce about half of the food we currently produce if synthetic fertilizers weren't invented, but here is a link on that topic.

https://www.ipni.net/ppiweb/bcrops.nsf/$webindex/0022BBC19C02604A852575C50062FBB7/$file/BC09-2p12.pdf
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