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Old 11-23-2008, 09:37 AM   #101
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The paper towel is sticking to the side of the edge where these jagged edges are. It's some foods that are sticking to the side of the blade.
I'll run a steel on it and see what happens later this morning.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:57 AM   #102
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The paper towel is sticking to the side of the edge where these jagged edges are. It's some foods that are sticking to the side of the blade.
I'll run a steel on it and see what happens later this morning.
If you press too hard on the steel you may make the chipping worse. If the side of the edge grabs the paper towel when you drag or pull the blade across the paper, it sounds like a rolled edge.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:06 AM   #103
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It looks jagged, but when I run my finger in the direction from the spine over the edge, it feels like it could be rolled. I can see it, but I can't get a good picture of it.
I will go lightly with the steel.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:35 PM   #104
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Most all my knives are susceptible to rolling, including a VG-10 Shun. I have an ATS-34 Hocho that's prone to chipping and an S30V blade that suffers from neither malady. Perhaps the S30V performs so well because I keep it away from the Mrs. and typically only use it for slashing bread dough.
If your Tojiro is starting to look a bit like a hacksaw blade, it's probably time to invest in some of those King stones.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:51 PM   #105
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King stones? When the time came I was thinking about one of those kits like GB purchased not too long ago. The one that suction cups down to your counter.
But that still doesn't explain why my cheapos always cut the same, and this knife, that I never put in the dishwasher and slept with under my pillow, has little knicks, jagged edges on it.... That's the thing I question. I wish there was a knife guy (tinker?) around here.
It has me thinking now about picking up that Victorinox like I was going to, just for comparison's sake.
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:02 PM   #106
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If you enjoy sharp knives you'll need to learn how to establish and maintain the edge. I'd suggest practising on your Chicago Cutlery and Dexter Russels first. Stiffer blades are easier to sharpen than flexible ones.
You might want to take a look at Jeekinz's 'Sharpening Paraphernalia' thread-
http://www.discusscooking.com/forums...=paraphernalia
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:18 PM   #107
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King stones? When the time came I was thinking about one of those kits like GB purchased not too long ago. The one that suction cups down to your counter.
But that still doesn't explain why my cheapos always cut the same, and this knife, that I never put in the dishwasher and slept with under my pillow, has little knicks, jagged edges on it.... That's the thing I question. I wish there was a knife guy (tinker?) around here.
It has me thinking now about picking up that Victorinox like I was going to, just for comparison's sake.
It's beginning to sound like the burr was never removed when the bevels were ground by the manufacturer. I think the knife needs to be totally resharpened.

GB's "kit" is an EdgePro Apex. I've been using one for a long time. Well, now I only use it if I want to cut bevels at an exact angle. 90% of my sharpening nowadays is done free handing on stones.

Don't sleep with your knife. You might try to kiss it and wind up slicing your lips off.

I'm not a tinker, but.......



....and that's just some of it.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:21 PM   #108
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If you want to see how sharp you knife can be, send it to Dave Martell. He's about the best sharpener in the country.

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Old 11-23-2008, 05:30 PM   #109
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OK. Here ya go. I've been using this knife for what, maybe 2 weeks now? this is what I have noticed compared to the cheap chefs knives I was using before.

It's friggin sharp. And light. Those were my first two thoughts when I started using it. I got used to it an like the way it feels.

Potatoes REALLY stick to it. Terribly. I can no longer slice a halved potato one way, spin it ninety degrees and slice back through it. Or onions for that matter. When you make a slice, the sliced piece lifts right back up with the knife, stuck to the blade. I don't know if that is a property of the thinner blade not "wedging" or giving itself some clearance space, or the blade material itself, because when I used the side of the blade tonight to smash some garlic cloves, I really had to do some scraping with my fingers to get the garlic "residue" off of the blade's side.

Some things it slices right through, and some things I have to use a little force. Could it be dull this quickly? I don't think so, or otherwise it would feel dull on everything, wouldn't it? Jalapenos it cuts right through, bell peppers right through, tomatoes right through, but carrots..... unless I am using a light chopping action to dice them, it takes a little pushing compared to my cheapos. Other things too, that I can't put my finger on right now. And I have tried different strokes, slicing motions, sawing motions.... things that were the norm with my other knives and I didn't notice any difference moving from one food to another, but I don't understand why this knife works so well on some foods and mediocre at best on others. Maybe I was expecting too much.
...

Anyway. That's my observations with this Tojiro DP. And I have "nicked" myself twice, which isn't that bad I guess. Nothing a little super glue didn't fix right up. Once with the point when opening a package of meat and once with the back corner of the blade while I was working the food with my left hand (I'm right handed) and I let my right thumb brush against the corner of the blade.
The issue of food sticking to the side of the blade, esp. potatoes, happens when you have a sharp knife. It means you are actually making a clean cut, not bashing your way through the food.

On the issue of having to use more pressure on dense foods like carrots that's a function of blade weight. A heavier blade like a Sabatier will go through denser foods with less effort, but there are trade offs for using a thicker heavier blade, so each to his own.

However from what you've written about trying different blade actions I'd really recommend learning the "rocking" motion. Here are a few pointers that helped me when I learned how to use a knife properly.
1) The tip remains on the board at all times.
2) The wrist of your knife hand goes in a circle.
3) The blade should be moving much further laterally than vertically - at a microscopic level the edge of your knife is a saw, so to get the best out of it use it as a saw not an axe.
4) The cutting stroke motion is very similar to shooting pool, so make sure that you stand so that your arm can make nice smooth strokes. It doesn't hurt to use a pool stance when cutting. Stand facing 90 degrees away from the bench, then twist at the hips to face your work surface. Have your back foot parallel to your bench and your front foot facing directly at the bench and in the same direction you are cutting.
5) Practice practice practice using the biggest dullest knife you have until the motion becomes natural. I used a honing steel to practice getting the motion right.
6) Your guide hand is there to guide the blade, not to grab the food you're cutting. The blade should never leave the index finger of your guide hand. My biggest mistake was to chase my guide hand with the knife, and I donated a fair amount of blood to the cause until I learned that lesson

PS I never want to see that you're using the good kitchen knife to open containers ever again. You have el cheapos handy so use them for opening boxes and plastics. Cardboard and plastic will dull your knives very quickly.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:23 PM   #110
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Thanks for the tips j. The potatoes sticking and dense foods vs a true cut and blade weight helped to clear some of the fog I was having. That makes perfect sense.

I also think I was using more of a vertical motion because that is what it looked like I was seeing in the various vids I was watching, like the blade was just dropping through the food. I guess I thought the "sawing" motion was reserved for western knives. Maybe TV chefs vs the various vids were just more exaggerated.

And I used to shoot pool. A lot of pool. Good analogy on the stance and technique, but here's my analogy; Like any non-professional pool shooter with a good stick knows, it's perfectly acceptable to break with a good cue. It's the mediocre players you see trading in their cue sticks for a house stick to break. A well made cue can handle breaking. If you're telling me that I can't use my knife to cut open a package of Lit'l Smokies, or to cut the plastic wrap off of a package of chicken, when I'm using the same knife on a less than choice cutting board..... well, I just don't buy it. That's not the level of knife ownership I want to be at. I'm just trying to be honest. I want to pick up one knife to do most of my kitchen needs and if that means touching it up more, then I'll accept that.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:59 PM   #111
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Food sticks. Now way around it. Check out this video of a very sharp blade on potatoes.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:09 PM   #112
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If you're telling me that I can't use my knife to cut open a package of Lit'l Smokies, or to cut the plastic wrap off of a package of chicken, when I'm using the same knife on a less than choice cutting board..... well, I just don't buy it. That's not the level of knife ownership I want to be at. I'm just trying to be honest. I want to pick up one knife to do most of my kitchen needs and if that means touching it up more, then I'll accept that.
I agree. I use whatever knife is closest to cut thin plastics. No edge damage ever.

As for rocking, lots of folks swear by it. Personally I only use that technique for mincing. Perhaps it's faster for some applications, but as a home cook, I'm never in a hurry. Maybe that's the difference. I tend to cut most veggies like the video I referenced above.

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Old 11-23-2008, 07:21 PM   #113
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Very cool video, Buzz. You have the sawing action, the technique to keep the pieces in place. That is getting bookmarked.
Thank you.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:26 PM   #114
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Very cool video, Buzz. You have the sawing action, the technique to keep the pieces in place. That is getting bookmarked.
Thank you.
Ah but it is not I. I'm not that good, yet. That's KCMA at FoodieForums.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:34 PM   #115
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I must have missed that vid.
That's the guy that types using the zer0s, right? I kn0w s0me0ne's p0sts I have a hard time f0ll0wing.... ;^)
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:42 PM   #116
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I must have missed that vid.
That's the guy that types using the zer0s, right? I kn0w s0me0ne's p0sts I have a hard time f0ll0wing.... ;^)
That's him all right. His cutting techniques are second to none. When you do it for a living, and you care, you get really good.

The 0's are from his computer. His o's are from his cell phone. In short, he needs to get his computer fixed because the o doesn't work.

KCMA's knives are solid steel, not the typical Japanese san mai (sandwiched) construction, and he only sharpens one side. I have a knife like that on order and I'm going to put the same type of bevel on it (except left handed) to see how it works. He swears by it and gives lots of reasons to validate his beliefs.

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Old 11-23-2008, 07:56 PM   #117
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We used to kid about left and right handed hammers at work. It didn't take me long to figure out the knife folks were serious, depending on where the bevel was. If I'm still cutting my food with a knife ten years from now I can't imagine I would ever know a difference. But you never know.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:14 PM   #118
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We used to kid about left and right handed hammers at work. It didn't take me long to figure out the knife folks were serious, depending on where the bevel was. If I'm still cutting my food with a knife ten years from now I can't imagine I would ever know a difference. But you never know.
Ten years from now you'll be cutting food with either a laser or its successor. Star wars. It's gonna happen. Meanwhile, we work with what we have.

Very few Japanese knives come with a 50/50 bevel. Most are right hand biased, say 30/70, 40/60, whatever. A few are into the 10/90 or 20/80 range and it does make a difference. The extreme of course are the traditional wa knives with a single bevel and a concave (hollow ground) back side. It is difficult for a lefty like me to use a right handed wa blade. Unfortunately, most makers add a 50% surcharge for us unlucky mollydookers (Aussie for left handed), although there are a couple makers that will do it for less.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #119
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Well, I steeled it. It took more than three times each side, and more than light pressure, but the burr feeling edge went away AND..... most importantly, my spuds did not stick nearly as much. So they must have been hanging up on the edge. And it still felt dang sharp, so I guess I didn't screw it up, but it still looks jagged. Looks aren't everything.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:43 PM   #120
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Well, I steeled it. It took more than three times each side, and more than light pressure, but the burr feeling edge went away AND..... most importantly, my spuds did not stick nearly as much. So they must have been hanging up on the edge. And it still felt dang sharp, so I guess I didn't screw it up, but it still looks jagged. Looks aren't everything.
It still sounds to me like it needs a new edge. The Japanese who traditionally only marketed to Japan expected the buyers to put their own edge on a blade and I think it carries somewhat into the American market. For example, the knife I mentioned in post 118 is an Aritsuga "A" 240mm Gyuto and it comes unsharpened. That's right, no edge at all. I plan on giving it the mollydooker version of KCMA's knives and see what happens. The steel is very hard and the initial grinding is a huge PITA so the order was placed mollydooker wise and Aritsuga replied no extra charge. It won't be sharp but at least the heavy work will already have been accomplished.

I think, pacanais, that once sharpened, your knife will become that which you thought you ordered in the first place, and more.
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