justplainbill
Executive Chef
How's about 25 - 30 degrees (chisel style) on one side only?
Review: AccuSharp Knife and Tool Sharpener
- Thread starter eatsOats
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that enjoys cooking.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
How's about 25 - 30 degrees (chisel style) on one side only?
buzzard767
Sous Chef
How about it? A 25 degree chisel is only so so sharp by many enthusiasts' standards. Some Japanese knives are chisels, some 20/80, some 30/70, some double beveled, whatever. Try the In The Kitchen section at knifeforums dot com. You will find that those of us there "tend" to favor Japanese knives and there is a ton of information available. Some have sharpened the blades to as little as 4 degrees per side, and they work great.
Buzz
justplainbill
Executive Chef
15 degree per side is less acute than 25 deg chisel
Last edited:
justplainbill
Executive Chef
I think the above, Buzz, illustrates that a 25 degree single side bevel is more acute than the 15 - 16 degree per side edge that you originally touted.
Last edited:
keltin
Washing Up
Here's a very informative look at blade geometry. Plus, the guy is a true artist when it comes to making knives and swords.
justplainbill
Executive Chef
Jayfisher has a pretty good section on
How do I sharpen the knife?
justplainbill
Executive Chef
I think Sal Glesser of Spyderco says it most succinctly when he says ‘30 degrees inclusive is about the most acute edge angle for fair steel; anything more acute will result in a weak edge and 40 degrees is stronger and acute enough for utility work.’ Some of Spyderco’s CPM S30V knives appear to be ground to about 25 degrees inclusive (12.5 – 13 degrees each side). They are wicked sharp, hold their edge quite well and respond nicely to a light touch up of their edge at 15 degrees per side (which minimizes steel removal).
Last edited:
buzzard767
Sous Chef
Gee Bill. I didn't major in math but, trust me, I know all about sharpening angles.
But here's something *you* don't seem to know. There is no such term "obtuse" when discussing knife edge angles 90 degrees (included) or less because an obtuse angle is an angle greater than 90 degrees and less than 180 degrees. Not bad for a Marine, huh?
I guess you meant "more acute" instead of "less blunt (obtuse)"
Buzz
justplainbill
Executive Chef
You’re right. Less acute would be more technically accurate than more obtuse. Now that that nit has been picked, how about a Jarhead’s take on the acuteness of 15 degree per side edge versus a 25 degree chisel grind? Let's not be to obtuse about the matter.
.
Last edited:
Okay, y'all. Let's play nice or I'll have to poke someone with my dull knife.
buzzard767
Sous Chef
Okay, y'all. Let's play nice or I'll have to poke someone with my dull knife.
Thanks Katie. I don't have a clue why Mr. Bill is on my case. I just looked at all my posts in this thread and can't for the life of me find where I said that a 30 degree included angle is more acute than a 25 degree angle.
He's probably a former airdale or squid and is just jealous of my USMC heritage.
Buzz
Chief Longwind Of The North
Certified/Certifiable
Though the article presented in the above post has much information, remember, it is one man's opinion. I have read other information from other sites that state, for instance, that 301 steel is superior as it has a chromium content of 18 and is a very tough steel. But from a quick bit of further research, I have found that 301 steel comes with different properties and qualities, based on several factors. It can have from 16 to 18% chromium. And its factor of toughness depends on whether it was cold-worked, forged, how it was hardened, whether or not it was anealed, whether it came as a bar, or sheet, whether it was mechanically worked or stamped, etc.
I have also read that a convex edge is far better than than is a beveled edge as the outside curve shape of the edge is naturally stronger than either the beveled, chisled, multi-angle bevel, and concave shapes. This is born out through simple physical laws. Also, The shape of the edge, and the the body of the knife from the spine to the belly is important. A blade with a thick spine leading to a sharp belly wedges through whatever is being cut, which increases the amount of force required to get through the material. This is important if you are cutting foods such as winter squashes (acorn, hubbard, pumpkin, etc.), or mellons. A blade that is very thin at the spine might not have enough rigidity or strength for tougher cutting tasks. A chisel blade tends to wander as you slice, making it difficult to carve very thin, uniform slices of cheese, or meat.
So dig a little before purchasing a knife. Look at several different sources of information. Then, determine the primary use of the knife, and what qualities you desire in it. This will allow you to make an informed decision.
I have my own reasons why I have the knives I have, and they fit my needs well. But your hand is different than is mine. Your arm is either shorter or longer. You are stronger or weaker than me. You have to find what works for you. And the best way to do that is research. I state about all of my beliefs, be they religeous, or about knives, or even cars, don't take my word for anything as gosple. Rather, learn from the info I have, and then find more for yourself.
Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
I have also read that a convex edge is far better than than is a beveled edge as the outside curve shape of the edge is naturally stronger than either the beveled, chisled, multi-angle bevel, and concave shapes. This is born out through simple physical laws. Also, The shape of the edge, and the the body of the knife from the spine to the belly is important. A blade with a thick spine leading to a sharp belly wedges through whatever is being cut, which increases the amount of force required to get through the material. This is important if you are cutting foods such as winter squashes (acorn, hubbard, pumpkin, etc.), or mellons. A blade that is very thin at the spine might not have enough rigidity or strength for tougher cutting tasks. A chisel blade tends to wander as you slice, making it difficult to carve very thin, uniform slices of cheese, or meat.
So dig a little before purchasing a knife. Look at several different sources of information. Then, determine the primary use of the knife, and what qualities you desire in it. This will allow you to make an informed decision.
I have my own reasons why I have the knives I have, and they fit my needs well. But your hand is different than is mine. Your arm is either shorter or longer. You are stronger or weaker than me. You have to find what works for you. And the best way to do that is research. I state about all of my beliefs, be they religeous, or about knives, or even cars, don't take my word for anything as gosple. Rather, learn from the info I have, and then find more for yourself.
Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
keltin
Washing Up
Are you talking about the link I posted to Jay Fisher's page? If so, I have to say, I can't think of any other opinion that qualifies as gospel. Have you checked his running log on making a custom sword. The annealing and hardening process, the grinding, polishing. Rockwell hardness tests, etc. Mind-blowing and amazing!
buzzard767
Sous Chef
Keltin, I moused around a small part of his rather huge web site. He makes very nice knives. He is an artist. I appreciate what he does.
However:
This is a cooking site and I didn't run across any cook's knives.
His use of 440C steel is okay but there are better blends for various purposes. Yes I looked at his order page where you cn pick among various steels, etc. I give him drecit for this, but how does the consumer know which to choose?
He is not the only blacksmith who knows how to heat temper steel.
I know custom makers who produce great kitchen knives exactly to the buyers dimensions, with the steel you want, with the handles you want, etc.
Did I mention his huge web site? Of course I did. He's consistent. The size of his site matches his huge prices and his huge ego.
Buzz - who will stick with other custom makers of quality: moritaka, harner, carter, rantanen, and so forth. There are a bunch of them out there world wide.
Last edited by a moderator:
keltin
Washing Up
Oh, he makes kitchen knives all right. Either by pattern or by customer specified drawings and requests. I posted about these before.
Read his take on Chef's Knives here.
Last edited:
keltin
Washing Up
Out of curiosity, I checked the first on your list, Moritaka. That’s more of a “brand name” than a custom knife. It’s obvious that “Moritaka” himself isn’t making each and every knife. Look at how they say “we” do this and that. Sounds like a Wal-Mart sweat shop. At least with Jay Fisher you have one guy sticking to uncompromising standards of quality and not mass production dead lines.
And some of his blades aren’t full tang! But, I’m not saying they aren’t good…..I’m just more impressed with Jay Fisher’s work. Some like Rembrandt others like Rockwell.
And some of his blades aren’t full tang! But, I’m not saying they aren’t good…..I’m just more impressed with Jay Fisher’s work. Some like Rembrandt others like Rockwell.
I'm curious, keltin. Were you on the debating team in school?
keltin
Washing Up
Actually, yes, three years. State Champions in 86!
Uh.....does it show that much?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
buzzard767
Sous Chef
WAY COOL. I missed that page. Like I said, the guy is good, but I'll not be backing down on the rest of my statements. I LOVE that block. My wife and I are going to build a new house with a "to die for" kitchen and I might just have to plagiarize a tad. WOW! That would look nice next to a walnut cutting board.
Buzz
