"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cookware and Accessories > Knives
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2010, 12:21 PM   #21
Executive Chef
 
justplainbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern Long Island, New York
Posts: 4,206
Seems the only problem with serrated bread knives is that the can wreak havoc on wood cutting boards. To some extent this can be avoided by rocking / rotating the loaf so that the final cut through each slice is achieved at a point that is not in contact with the board. Doing so however can detract from the uniformity of a slice's thickness. Wonder how Adrian Monk does it.
justplainbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 02:35 PM   #22
Sous Chef
 
Nicholas Mosher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 768
Serrated knives not only wreak havok on cutting boards, they do the same thing to food. When slicing bread with a serrated knife, you're often left with crumbs and flaky pieces of crust all over. With a sharp edge more of the crust remains intact, and less damage is done to the cut surface. This is true with meats, vegetables, cheese, etc.
__________________
Nick ~ "Egg whites are good for a lot of things; lemon meringue pie, angel food cake, and clogging up radiators." - MacGyver
Nicholas Mosher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 03:56 PM   #23
Executive Chef
 
justplainbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern Long Island, New York
Posts: 4,206
I'm with you Nick. Don't like to saw my food. My granny sliced some pretty crusty breads with a plain edged knife.
justplainbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 10:03 PM   #24
Head Chef
 
Rob Babcock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 1,311
I like serrated knives for bread and sandwiches. Normally I avoid cutting super crusty breads with my J-knives as I don't wanna chip the edge.
__________________
If we're not supposed to eat animals, then how come they're made out of meat?
Rob Babcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 07:35 AM   #25
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 47,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Babcock View Post
...Normally I avoid cutting super crusty breads with my J-knives as I don't wanna chip the edge.
Seriously?
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 07:58 AM   #26
Executive Chef
 
justplainbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern Long Island, New York
Posts: 4,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
Seriously?
Might this imply J-knives are no the be-all and end-all? Of course some are tougher and not as brittle as others; but this is also true of non-J-knives.
justplainbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 01:56 AM   #27
Head Chef
 
Rob Babcock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 1,311
Indeed, it can happen. And of course, not just to J-knives. Any thin, hard edge can chip. Some bread can be incredibly crusty & hard on knives, no matter what brand or type. Obviously it depends greatly on how the knife is sharpened- a radically thinned edge is more likely to chip while a J-knife with the correct type of edge, like a hamaguriba or partially convexed edge, can sometimes cut a bolt in half and still shave hair. But yes, I've seen Shuns micro-chip on very crusty batard. Of course, even a cryogenically frozen loaf of bread couldn't hurt my Tojiro Western Deba!

So, no- Japanese knives aren't the "be all, end all"...no knife is. You've gotta match the right tool for the job. I'd rather use a bread knife than a thin gyuto, but for the record the way I sharpen I've never had much problems with microchipping.
__________________
If we're not supposed to eat animals, then how come they're made out of meat?
Rob Babcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 11:52 PM   #28
Senior Cook
 
jpaulg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 208
Crusty bread will blunt a knife quicker than anything except cardboard or maybe a marble cutting board.

J-knives are prone to micro-chip when a French or German knife will just get blunter.
jpaulg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 09:04 AM   #29
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
A scalloped edge is designed to cut items that have a crust or thick skin as well as a soft interior. Good examples are bread and tomatoes. The points of the scallop help navigate through the crust and skin and the sharp bellies of the scallops cut through the soft interior without crushing it.
Dexterknifeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 05:33 PM   #30
Certified/Certifiable
 
Chief Longwind Of The North's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA,Michigan
Posts: 10,759
A scalloped edge is easier on cutting boards and foods than are serrated knives. I have both in my kitchen. The only thing I find the serrated knife good for is sawing through frozen meat. Actually, my wife uses the scalloped edge knife on bread while I use my trusty Chroma 10" chef's knife for everything. I just keep it very sharp, hone it every time I use it (which does put micro-serrations on cutting edge), and have a a convex edge on it.

The scalloped edge applies more cutting pressure on the food where the blade edge touches it. It's simple math. The smaller the area of one object applying force to another, the greater the pressure per unit measure. Also, the angle of attack, so to speak, of the scalloped edge, as it comes into contact with the food, is at a more acute angle. This starts a tear in the food surface, which is replaced by the cutting power of the edge gradually changing to parallel the direction of force.

Serrated knives, on the other hand, literally act like saws, with teeth that tear bits of material away from the food. And unless you are cutting something like celery, wood, or frozen meat, this tends to tear food rather than cut cleanly through it.

Personally, I've never fractured a knife edge with crusty bread, or any other food. When I slice, I simply apply downward and forward pressure at the same time, a vector force if you will. I've yet to find any food that I can't safely get my chef's knife through.

Of course, I don't get my knives so sharp that they will shave me. But they are sharp enough to easily slice through everything from ripe tomato to butternut squash, and with just light pressure.

Rob Babcock is a master knife sharpener. I am not. I don't want to spend the money or the time. I just want my knives to be well made and tough tools that get the job done. Evey knife in my house, whether it cost me $150 to 50 cent paring knives bought at the grocery store do their job, and do them well. What more do I need from a knife?

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
__________________
“No amount of success outside the home can compensate for failure within the home…"

Check out my blog for the friendliest cooking instruction on the net. Go ahead. You know you want to.- https://gwnorthsfamilycookin.wordpress.com/
Chief Longwind Of The North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 03:07 AM   #31
Senior Cook
 
jpaulg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterknifeguy View Post
A scalloped edge is designed to cut items that have a crust or thick skin as well as a soft interior. Good examples are bread and tomatoes. The points of the scallop help navigate through the crust and skin and the sharp bellies of the scallops cut through the soft interior without crushing it.
Tomatoes have a very thin skin. A well maintained, i.e. sharp, knife will cut tomatoes better than a scalloped edge.

Simple test:-
1) Get a well sharpened straight edge knife and cut a tomato into slices as thin as you possibly can.
2) Repeat process with a scalloped edge knife
3) compare the thickness of the slices

I can get close to paper thin slices out of a tomato using my straight edged knives, and much thinner than I can get with a scalloped edge knife.

PS I once shaved with my 10" Sabatier to win a $20 bet.
jpaulg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 07:33 AM   #32
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 47,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpaulg View Post
Tomatoes have a very thin skin. A well maintained, i.e. sharp, knife will cut tomatoes better than a scalloped edge.

Simple test:-
1) Get a well sharpened straight edge knife and cut a tomato into slices as thin as you possibly can.
2) Repeat process with a scalloped edge knife
3) compare the thickness of the slices

I can get close to paper thin slices out of a tomato using my straight edged knives, and much thinner than I can get with a scalloped edge knife.

PS I once shaved with my 10" Sabatier to win a $20 bet.
Basically, serrated, scalloped or straight edged knives will slice tomatoes. After all, the tomatoes end up getting eaten very shortly after they are sliced so the beauty of the slice is not really relevant.

While I agree you can slice more precisely with a straight edged knife, I find that irrelevant for 99.9% of my food prep endeavors.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 07:41 AM   #33
Chief Eating Officer
 
GB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: USA,Massachusetts
Posts: 25,518
Also, while it is technically true that you can get a better slice from a tomato with a properly sharpened straight edge that with a scalloped edge most kitchens do not have a properly sharpened straight edge. In a perfect world the straight edge would be the best option, but in a realistic world for majority of people out there in their own kitchens they will usually be better off cutting their tomatoes with a scalloped edge.

I keep my knives very sharp. I use a tomato to test my knives after I sharpen them and I also use tomatoes to gauge when I need to sharpen them again.
__________________
You know you can't resist clicking
this link. Your eyes will thank you. VISUAL BLISS
GB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 10:30 AM   #34
Chef Extraordinaire
 
buckytom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: My mountain
Posts: 21,539
i'm kinda split on this one. if i have to cut tomatoes, onions, oranges, etc., i'll steel my 8" chef's knife and slice away.

but i use a scalloped edge bow knife for bread. it's called a bread knife for a reason. i'm not worried about a tiny fraction of crumbs that shred from the crust, and it helps make uniform slices.



the only specialized knife that i use , lol - if you want to call it that, is a genuine ginsu. it works better than any other knife to saw away at the tough skin of a pineapple.
then i cut through aluminum cans, a brick, and a shoe just because you're supposed to.
__________________
The past is gone it's all been said.
So here's to what the future brings,
I know tomorrow you'll find better things
buckytom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 11:30 AM   #35
Senior Cook
 
JamesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 264
That's pretty spiffy. How thick a slice can you get with it?
JamesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:04 PM   #36
Certified Cake Maniac
 
LPBeier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Great "Wet" North
Posts: 20,330
I used to have an adjustable bread knife, but alas, BigD, it was not as spiffy as yours and certainly not a Ginsu. Will have to check out EBay!
__________________
Living gluten/dairy/sugar/fat/caffeine-free and loving it!
LPBeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:05 PM   #37
Chef Extraordinaire
 
buckytom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: My mountain
Posts: 21,539
hmm, i never measured. i'd guess upwards of 2 inches. thick enough for texas toast.
__________________
The past is gone it's all been said.
So here's to what the future brings,
I know tomorrow you'll find better things
buckytom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:08 PM   #38
Certified Cake Maniac
 
LPBeier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Great "Wet" North
Posts: 20,330
Sorry BuckyT, I accidentally mistook you for BigDaddy! I don't know how - Mr. Greenjeans and Homer have very little in common. But the two of you are both great guys and good friends to have!
__________________
Living gluten/dairy/sugar/fat/caffeine-free and loving it!
LPBeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:12 PM   #39
Chef Extraordinaire
 
buckytom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: My mountain
Posts: 21,539
right back atcha, lp.

i'm in good company being compared to big d.
__________________
The past is gone it's all been said.
So here's to what the future brings,
I know tomorrow you'll find better things
buckytom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:23 PM   #40
Senior Cook
 
JamesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckytom View Post
hmm, i never measured. i'd guess upwards of 2 inches. thick enough for texas toast.
That would be great for cubing bread for bread pudding.
JamesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.