Should I sharpen this knife?

[jennyema]

I know that I am much more fussy with my knives than most of you. With that said I will tell you that what feels sharp out of the box really isn't. .

True, yes. But when a home cook opens up a brand new knife thier first thought shoiuldn't be "wow, I think this knife needs to be sharpened."

 

[SShepherd]

hmm..there seems to be some kind of skewd idea, that somehow chefs have sharper knives than "home cooks"
The ammount of chefs that actually have the kind of sharp knives buzz uses are probably aroun 3% . The majority of their jobs simply either don't require delicate knife skills, or don't have the time to do it themselves and have their knives sent out to be sharpened when they dull.
I keep reading, " a home cook doesn't need a knife that sharp", etc.
That makes me wonder how mant have actually used what could be called a sharp knife.
How many would cook with a pan that has a dished out bottom that hasn't been cleaned? Probably none-atleast I hope not. Thats how some of us feel about our knife edges.

 

[jpaulg]

SShepherd,

Chefs are just like any other tradesman. Some buy the best tools and really care for them and others are happy to get by any old how.

 

[gadzooks]

True, yes. But when a home cook opens up a brand new knife thier first thought shoiuldn't be "wow, I think this knife needs to be sharpened."

That's probably why I buy used knives. I just stopped by a thrift store and found a j.a. henckels 8" chef's knife. It's forged (gasp), but it's the cheap one, from Brasil. Get 'em most places for under $50,(c. $25 on eBay) plus shipping. I paid a buck, plus .07 tax. The knife was dirty, dull, and had a slightly bent tip. I straightened the tip first, figuring it would be a waste of time to do the rest first, then break the tip off. I didn't. so I washed it, and scrubbed it a bit with a scotchbrite sponge...cleaned up nice. Now I have a cheap, $1.07, dull chef's knife...is it worth sharpening? You bet. Took about 30 minutes to get a nice edge on it, and it's gonna help make breakfast tomorrow morning in the shelter. I'll probably use it for a while, then leave it in the church kitchen. The handle is dishwasher safe, and I'll sharpen it for 'em once in a while. I got a nice Griswold #8 CI pan, there, too, but I'm not gonna sharpen it. It's in the oven, cooling, now.

 

[justplainbill]

3-in-1 oil will gum up a whetstone. Go for the big bucks and buy two($80) or three($140) 8" benchstones; like Spyderco's ceramic medium and fine and? ultra fine benchstones. They can be used dry and cleaned with an eraser or q-tips and Cameo scouring powder.

 

[Rob Babcock]

hmm..there seems to be some kind of skewd idea, that somehow chefs have sharper knives than "home cooks"
The ammount of chefs that actually have the kind of sharp knives buzz uses are probably aroun 3% . The majority of their jobs simply either don't require delicate knife skills, or don't have the time to do it themselves and have their knives sent out to be sharpened when they dull.
I keep reading, " a home cook doesn't need a knife that sharp", etc.
That makes me wonder how mant have actually used what could be called a sharp knife.
How many would cook with a pan that has a dished out bottom that hasn't been cleaned? Probably none-atleast I hope not. Thats how some of us feel about our knife edges.

I mostly agree with you. As a chef I can tell you I only know one pro cook (aside from me) that's a knifenerd. A lot of guys have their own roll but oftimes their knives are little better than the house knives. Few of them are expert at sharpening. That said, I live & work in a smaller market than those guys in LA or NY. But I think the percentages probably track. Chefs and cooks are tradesmen, and it's definately true that their attitudes towards their tools vary. Some love knives while they're just a tool to others.

However, I do think a good edge is a bit more important to a pro, if for no other reason than just volume. If I'm cutting a few steaks or carving a turkey at home I could probably survive using a dull knive. But cleaning 300 lbs of beef tenderloin or stuffing 6 cases of porkloin is a nightmare without a good knife. You ever have to cut a crusty loaf of batard with a dull knife? Now imagine cutting 300 loaves of crusty batard with a dull knifef!

 

[JohnL]

I sorely miss my Chicago Cutlerly boning knife. It was given to me by a dear friend some 30 years ago, but finally broke at the first rivet in the three rivet full tang handle when I admitedly abused it. So yes, I think that you should take the time to sharpen yours. Heck, it will probably outlast your favorite nonstick pan!

 

[Scotch]

I mostly agree with you. As a chef I can tell you I only know one pro cook (aside from me) that's a knifenerd. A lot of guys have their own roll but oftimes their knives are little better than the house knives. Few of them are expert at sharpening. That said, I live & work in a smaller market than those guys in LA or NY. But I think the percentages probably track. Chefs and cooks are tradesmen, and it's definately true that their attitudes towards their tools vary. Some love knives while they're just a tool to others.

However, I do think a good edge is a bit more important to a pro, if for no other reason than just volume. If I'm cutting a few steaks or carving a turkey at home I could probably survive using a dull knive. But cleaning 300 lbs of beef tenderloin or stuffing 6 cases of porkloin is a nightmare without a good knife. You ever have to cut a crusty loaf of batard with a dull knife? Now imagine cutting 300 loaves of crusty batard with a dull knifef!

It's largely the same in the meat packing business, where most employees work with a knife in their hand most of the day. I spent a great deal of time hearing about the entire process in a series of cases I had with Clougherty Packing (Farmer John, the largest pork processor west of Chicago, or it was at the time). One of the key issues was time spent sharpening knives and whether it was on or off the clock. Consequently, I learned a lot about how they sharpened their tools.

Similar to what you said about the cooking industry, the meat packers treated their knives much like a carpenter treats his hammer -- it's a tool, not an object of worship. They tend to buy fairly inexpensive commercial knives with high carbon content (no Shuns here), and they replace the knives frequently, maybe every few months to once every year or two. Most carry several knives of varying sizes.

Sharpening is done on a crude power grinding stone and finished on a wet stone. Knives are typically sharpened every day, more often in some cases (e.g., a guy cutting around bone all day). Steeling is almost constant throughout the day -- most workers whip out the steel between every hog, which pass down a "disassembly line" where each worker has a specific job, such as removing a particular part of each pig's anatomy.

And their knives are indeed "scary sharp," slicing through a fresh hog carcass like a hot knife through butter.

BTW, they're proud to say they waste nothing but the oink -- and it's true. Even the blood and the intestinal juices and the hair is saved to be used for something.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Guys working on the kill floor or production lines require a certain kind of edge. The "scary sharp" edge you describe is usually a wire edge created by frequent steeling. The wire edge cuts like crazy but it's not very durable, hence the frequent re-steeling. But it seems like your average meat packer has a better idea how to sharpen than your average cook, if for no other reason than that a knife may be the packers only tool (or one of just a few) whereas a cook or chef de partie works with a wide array of them.

 

[FincaPerlitas]

For an excellent, inexpensive knife sharpening system, you can't beat the Lansky Deluxe Turn Box, at less than $20. Anyone can use it and it will maintain a good sharp edge without without scratching the blade or damaging the edge.

 

[jpaulg]

Guys working on the kill floor or production lines require a certain kind of edge. The "scary sharp" edge you describe is usually a wire edge created by frequent steeling. The wire edge cuts like crazy but it's not very durable, hence the frequent re-steeling. But it seems like your average meat packer has a better idea how to sharpen than your average cook, if for no other reason than that a knife may be the packers only tool (or one of just a few) whereas a cook or chef de partie works with a wide array of them.

I know some meatpackers that have spent $800+ on a single steel and didn't even blink at the price. What those guys don't know about how to steel a knife isn't worth knowing.

 

[Scotch]

I know some meatpackers that have spent $800+ on a single steel and didn't even blink at the price. What those guys don't know about how to steel a knife isn't worth knowing.

You must know some pretty wealthy Aussie packers.

The union meat packers with whom I'm familiar here in the U.S. make less than $20 an hour. One recent settlement at Hormel in Iowa brought the packers an average wage of $15.75 per hour, tops in the industry (I assume that means in Iowa), according to the union's press release.

The packers told me that the commercial knives they buy (they have to supply their own tools) are typically in the $20 to $40 range. They don't spend more because they literally wear their knives out in a matter of a few months due to the frequent sharpening. None of these guys are buying $800 steels, even if that's Australian dollars.

 

[Bigjim68]

That mirrors my experience years ago when I worked in the industry. The knife of choice was Forschner as they represented the best bang for the buck. You could also bounce them off a concrete floor without much damage. My steel, which was typical, was a Dick, probably less than $30 at todays prices.

 

[Scotch]

That mirrors my experience years ago when I worked in the industry. The knife of choice was Forschner as they represented the best bang for the buck. You could also bounce them off a concrete floor without much damage. My steel, which was typical, was a Dick, probably less than $30 at todays prices.

Amazon carries the Forschner knives at a good price. They also carry F. Dick sharpening steels.

Would you recommend either one for home cooks, BigJim?

 

[Scotch]

In answer to my own question about Forschner knives, I see that Cook's Illustrated reviewed "Innovative Chef's Knives" in an article published March 1, 2007.

The Forschner Victorinox Fibrox 8-Inch Chef's Knife was the top knife, recommended along with two Shuns, a MAC, and a Gelstain. The Forschner costs $25, according to Cook's, and the others range from $60 for the MAC up to $194 for the Shun Ken Onion knife.

Pretty impressive. If I needed another knife, I'd give the Forschner a try.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I know some meatpackers that have spent $800+ on a single steel and didn't even blink at the price. What those guys don't know about how to steel a knife isn't worth knowing.

Here's one thing a lot of them don't know that really is worth knowing: a steel isn't a sharpener at all.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I am by no means an expert on knives or, for that matter, cooking, but I will listen to those who have a far superior knowledge than mine. I have learned a lot from the knife guys (and chefs) on this forum, and followed some of their advice. My knives will never be as sharp as the starting point of some of the "pros" on this site. I keep an Edgemaker Pro in my kitchen, and sharpen my Forschners using this device. The learning curve is quick, and the results adequate for most users. The price is right. Sharpening on a whet or waterstone is an acquired skill. I recently purchased a few Japanese knives, once again based on the recommendations found here. They are a joy to use. but they will never be as sharp as they could be.

Glad the Edgemaker Pro is working well for you. It's light-years better than the Accusharp and much easier on the blade.

I also will second the recommendation for the Lansky system. It works well but it's a PITA on larger knives to have to reclamp them repeatedly.

 

[Rob Babcock]

One more note regarding people who work with knives for living- knives are a consumable. Home cooks are often advised to get a good knife and know it will last you a lifetime. Perhaps, but not so for chefs and meatpackers. A chef in a busy restaurant may resharpen his main knives every week or two (perhaps daily for a sushi chef, less often for other culinary pros). A meat packer will resharpen daily, and there isn't much steel in, say, a boning knife. A gyuto will have many sharpenings in it but eventually will look like a sujihiki!

For guys in packing plants knives are nearly disposable. Many buy Forschners and other inexpensive knives just for this reason. A Cowry-X, SG2, SKD or D2 blade isn't going to do enough better to warrant the cost. Bear in mind a packing plant hand may make more cuts on meat in one day than a home cook will in several years. Heck, they do more knife work than most chefs. Cutting thru meat and connective tissue really does wear down the edge rapidly.

 

[Scotch]

Meat packing is also dangerous work, in large part because the knives are so sharp. Most packers wear Kevlar gloves under actual chainmail (i.e., woven metal) gloves like these:

 

[jpaulg]

You must know some pretty wealthy Aussie packers.

Meatworkers earn up to $40/hour over here, more if supervising. Crappy job with crappy work conditions means that the bosses have to pay high wages to get people to work.