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Old 09-22-2016, 03:58 AM   #1
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Canning times for own recipe.

Hi everyone, I'm Jojo and i am new here.

I have been bath canning for years, but i have just bought myself a pressure canner!

I would love to can my favourite Orange Chicken sauce that i have developed over the years. I'm just not sure how long to can it for.

I have only ever worked from Pre-Made recipes but i think its time to branch out and make my own.

The ingredients in my sauce are:
Orange juice
Zest of 2 oranges
Lemon juice
Rice vinegar
Soy sauce
Brown sugar
fresh ginger – finely minced
fresh garlic – finely diced
chopped green onion
chili flakes.

I know that this probably can be bath canned because of the acid, but i would prefer to pressure can it.


I wont be adding any thickener, so that won't be a problem.

Thanks for any advice you can give, it will be greatly appreciated.

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Old 09-22-2016, 04:04 AM   #2
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Be patient, our canners are still sleeping here. They'll see you question soon and answer.

Welcome to DC...I'm only awake be cause I work nights and on my tea break.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:01 AM   #3
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Hi and welcome to Discuss Cooking

I would suggest looking for an approved recipe similar to yours and use that as a guide. I found one that's sorta similar, from one of the manufacturers, although it includes the chicken and a thickener. I think if you use the timing from that one, you will be more than safe.

https://www.gopresto.com/recipes/pre...ranchicken.php
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:35 AM   #4
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Good Morning and Wecome to DC!

Canning Quick Reference Chart : Canning : Preserving and Preparing : Food Safety : Food : University of Minnesota Extension

http://www.extension.umn.edu/food/fo...chart-2016.pdf

The above links are for the University of Minnesota's reference chart to canning. In it they give the various times for raw foods.
The only really raw foods in your recipe are the scallions, garlic, ginger and the orange zest. Based on that I would think that the times listed in the 8 to 10 minute range would be fine for you. It also depends on the size of the jars you are using - so your timing could go up to 25 or 35 minutes.

CAVEAT - please understand - I am not a seasoned pressure canner to give advice.
I would suggest you try some proven recipes first to become familiar with your canner.

As you've noted the amount of citric acid and other preserving ingredients almost preclude canning at all, whether water bath or pressure! LOL

But there must be a "department" out there that could give you precise times. There are inspectors for food plants who must have charts or criteria to follow... Anybody know what they are called?? Someone here must know someone in the food industry.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:41 AM   #5
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LOL - GG I was so busy looking things up I forgot to post my reply - and yours was there!

That recipe is delicious looking - might have to try it...

But that is a recipe for a meal to be eaten right away - They are not preserving the meat nor other ingredients. Chicken alone needs to be processed for anywhere up to 90 minutes, depending on bones/sizes, etc.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dragnlaw View Post
But that is a recipe for a meal to be eaten right away - They are not preserving the meat nor other ingredients. Chicken alone needs to be processed for anywhere up to 90 minutes, depending on bones/sizes, etc.
Whoops, you're right. I shouldn't try to give advice when I have a cold and a headache Sorry.

I agree with dragnlaw that it would be a good idea to practice with proven recipes before attempting to make up your own.
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:48 AM   #7
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JoJo, with 2nd thought (which I probably should NOT do).. there might be a reason you can't find a similar recipe done in a p c. Perhaps because no one would bother when a water bath suffices.

Pressure cooker preserving is really for things that MUST be taken above 212 F to be safe. All that acid renders it a bit moot for the p c.

Ask yourself just why you want to do it in a p c. The shelf life is not longer. It is not rendered safer. And it might even change the texture and taste, which I doubt you want.

Is it just for practice with the cooker? Try just making meals first... such as that chicken mentioned earlier. (and let me know when to go wash my hands before supper - I'll be there!)

Hope we are helping!
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:17 AM   #8
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I'm inclined to recommend over cooking it (since it is just a sauce) with the pressure cooking method (due to the ginger and garlic depending on how much you use). If there is not a large quantity of garlic or ginger (higher ph ingredients), you could just use a water bath canner. The orange juice, is comparable to lemon juice (acidifier), the sugar acting as a preservative similarly to Jam or Jelly. If you could find a recipe for orange marmalade, or a syrup recipe that is approved, you might use that. (comparing the volumes of each ingredient with a similar ingredient, lemon~ orange juice, garlic/ginger~chopped peppers, sugar ~brown sugar, etc.)

Now I AM one for following tested recipes with Ball or University Extensions (and a few others), but I don't think you'll find one for exactly what you are making.

I'm a huge fan of orange sauce myself, so, if I was doing this for MY family, I'd make it similar to jalapeno jelly, with extra acidifier (the orange juice), substituting the jalapeno with ginger/garlic in that proportion. The extra acidifier would possibly make the 'jelly', into 'not jelly=syrup' due to the acid or due to the amount of liquid.
The soy sauce, is added salt, not a problem.
The vinegar, is an added acidifier, not a problem.
The chili flakes dry, will not change the PH.
The chopped green onion either add that to your computations with garlic/ginger, or use dried chopped green onion, so it doesn't change the PH.
I'm pretty convinced that it might work like jalapeno jelly.

If you have a PH meter, or PH strips, you might aim for a low PH, 4 or 4.5???? Someone know the PH of orange marmalade or jalapeno jelly?
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:52 AM   #9
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Thanks Everyone, There is only 2 cloves of garlic in the recipe, and 1" knob of ginger.

I can most certainly used Dried green onion, that's not a problem.

My recipe is basically 85% acidic fruit juice, But my aunt who i asked said that garlic and ginger needs to be pressure canned.

I found a similar recipe online that water-bath canned for 25 mins, but that used minced garlic and ginger from a jar.


I will get a PH meter, What ones do you reccomend????


Thanks
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:27 AM   #10
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How do you normally put your sauce together for eating right away?

Is it all stewed together in a pan on the stove?

is it done the same way for a water bath? Really don't think you need to worry about them.

I put whole raw garlic cloves in with my dill pickles and then a water bath - they're fine. My chutneys are cooked on the stove before water baths - many have both ginger and garlic.

Just looked up PH testors Range from $100 to $500 - these are for commercial operations that must have one. Paper PH testors are what we call Litmus papers. Maybe not as accurate but sure to be a lot cheaper.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:36 AM   #11
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I agree with dragnlaw that an environment that acidic won't support the growth of bacteria. I've seen chutney recipes containing ginger that use the water bath method, as well as pickles that use garlic, so it should be fine.

I have never used a pH meter. My husband purchases supplies for high school science classes in his job; I can ask him if you want.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blissful View Post
If you have a PH meter, or PH strips, you might aim for a low PH, 4 or 4.5???? Someone know the PH of orange marmalade or jalapeno jelly?
Found a good reference here. The pH of orange marmalade is 3.

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodborneill.../ucm122561.htm
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:46 AM   #13
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GG, wow, ph of 3 is quite low. Tomatoes are safe in the PH of 4 range.

I have litmus paper, it is not expensive but it doesn't last for years either. I wouldn't get hung up on getting a ph meter but your final product should be acidic and it should taste acidic (which orange juice does).

If you are only using a 1 inch knob of ginger, and 2 cloves of garlic, that is not a majority of the recipe. It would be like adding garlic to dill pickles so it will be okay to water bath can it.

National Center for Home Food Preservation | How Do I? Jam and Jelly
Here is a peach-orange marmalade.
Quote:
  • 5 cups finely chopped or ground peaches (about 4 pounds peaches)
  • 1 cup finely chopped or ground oranges(about 2 medium-size oranges)
  • Peel of 1 orange, shredded very fine
  • 2 tablespoons lemon juice
  • 6 cups sugar
Here is marinated peppers with optional horseradish and garlic:
National Center for Home Food Preservation | How Do I? Pickle

Quote:
  • 4 lbs firm peppers*
  • 1 cup bottled lemon juice
  • 2 cups white vinegar (5 percent)
  • 1 tbsp oregano leaves
  • 1 cup olive or salad oil
  • 1/2 cup chopped onions
  • 2 cloves garlic, quartered (optional)
  • 2 tbsp prepared horseradish (optional)
I would consider the garlic and ginger you are using, similar to the optional ingredients in the marinated peppers recipe.

This is a syrup recipe (no acid except the fruit juice itself):
National Center for Home Food Preservation | How Do I? Can Fruits
Quote:
  • 1¼ cups juice (see Making Mayhaw Juice below)
  • 1½ cups sugar
  • ¼ cup white corn syrup* (or ¼ more sugar)
    *Using Part corn syrup adds thickness without extra sweetness.
The corn syrup is optional, use sugar instead. (unless the thickness is wanted) The proportions of juice to sugar here is 1 and 1/4 cup syrup to 1 and 3/4 cup sugar. (5 to 7)

So if I was making it for my family, I'd use a recipe most similar to the ingredients and the amounts of ingredients I wanted in my recipe. I wouldn't worry much about the thickness or viscosity of the end product, since it could be thinned out when heating it to serve.

All the recipes are for water bath canning but pressure canning is preferred, you say, so pressure can it, it can't hurt it. (with those ingredients) I wouldn't say pressure can sauerkraut or pickles because that will make your product mushy.

Does this help or make it more difficult to decide?
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Old 09-24-2016, 05:53 AM   #14
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Thanks everyone,

I do stew it together on the stove, so all the ingredients are cooked through.

I have just ordered some Litmus paper i will test it before canning and let you all know.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojobuller View Post
Thanks everyone,

I do stew it together on the stove, so all the ingredients are cooked through.

I have just ordered some Litmus paper i will test it before canning and let you all know.
I make and can a lot of my own recipes, and I wouldn't trust litmus paper or pH test strips. I know from experience that they're horribly inaccurate.

You really need a pH meter to measure accurately. If you're interested I can point you in the right direction. They aren't cheap, though. A decent one with a replaceable probe will run you around $150. You can get a disposable model that will last a few years for much less.

Having said that, there should be plenty of acidity in your recipe for water bath canning. If you feel like throwing caution to the wind, you're very likely safe using that method. However, If you want absolute assurance, a pH meter is the only way to be certain.
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:33 PM   #16
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I'm not sure how long you would pressure can your recipe, but depending on proportions, it looks plenty acidic. The rule of thumb for pickles is that at least half your liquid should be 5% strength vinegar. Lemon juice can be subbed and with the OJ and rice vinegar and no water, you're fine.

I use 0.0-6.0 pH papers in .5 increments. I called the company and was told these are what commercial picklers use to test their pickles (long tme ago...they probably use meters now!). I used them at our county fair when the judges tasted pickled vegetables, and I use them at home mostly to test my tomato products....tomatoes are so borderline. It's not accepted practice at my state university Extension, but it is in other states. Steve is probably right about the accuracy. I aim for 4.0 or lower.....4.6 is your "botulism can live here" point. Hydrion 0.0 -6.0
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