Inferior jars and lids

[56Loaches]

I'll jump to the point:
I successfully pressure cooked 16 12 oz. jars (15psi) of meat/chicken/fish, etc.
I say COOKED because many of the jars lost their hand-tight seal in the canner, lost moisture and were not fully (tightly) sealed when I cracked the cooker.
I immediately tightened the ring/cap/lid as tight as I could and let the jars cool.
They have kept their seal.

Can I go about shelving these and use as I will
OR
Should these all be refrigerated or frozen as is?

Thanks for your advice.
Kevin

 

[GotGarlic]

Hi and welcome to Discuss Cooking [emoji2]

They're supposed to be finger-tight, not super tight, so air can escape during processing, which creates a vacuum seal as they cool. Sometimes siphoning happens, but as long as the head space isn't much more than it should be, and it was processed at the correct pressure for the minimum amount of time, they should be fine.

 

[56Loaches]

Clarification:
They went in finger tight and that was the problem with the ill-fitting covers; they didn't stay tight. It wasn't until they were out of the cooker and cooling that I tightened them a lot...hoping to create a seal that would hold as the cooling continued.
That said, do you still think they're OK?
Define: HEADSPACE.

 

[bethzaring]

Clarification:
They went in finger tight and that was the problem with the ill-fitting covers; they didn't stay tight. It wasn't until they were out of the cooker and cooling that I tightened them a lot...hoping to create a seal that would hold as the cooling continued.
That said, do you still think they're OK?
Define: HEADSPACE.

I wouldn't consider them safe to eat. You should never tighten the screw band/cap after the jars come out of the canner (did you use a pressure canner?) By tightening the jars after they come out of the canner, you are guaranteeing breaking the seal. I would freeze the jars if not too much time has elapsed.

I'm also concerned you don't understand head space? Did you leave the correct headspace when filling the jars? Headspace is defined as the measured space between the top of the food product and the top of the glass jar.

 

[56Loaches]

I guess I just haven't been thorough.
I used a pressure canner to, as I related, achieve 15psi.
Regarding tightening the jars and breaking the seal: As I related, there WAS no seal. The inferior design of the all-in-one caps/lids/rings lost whatever hand-tightened pressure I created. A seal WAS Achieved once I re-tightened the caps.
I have an understanding of HEADSPACE, I just wanted to hear the definition from someone else and verify my understanding was correct.
Hope that helps.
Kevin

 

[taxlady]

I wouldn't trust them. Even with water bath canning, we reprocess or refrigerate jars that didn't seal. Would you be able to reprocess them? As to "all-in-one caps/lids/rings", is that some sort of one piece lid? There's good reasons to use two piece lids.

 

[56Loaches]

I just tried to open a half dozen of the jars with brute force. I could not.
As these meats were cooked for the allotted time at 15ps pressure and the jars were re-tightened down prior to cool down...please explain the danger?
I have spent most of the day on the WWW and, although, there are dozens of sites repeating the same info (some verbatim with identical spelling errors) I just can't find a definitive explanation.
What's the science say?

 

[bethzaring]

Let me suggest you google, "how long does it take for jars to seal after pressure canning".

 

[56Loaches]

Bethzaring,
Thanks so much for your time to respond. I did as you suggested and learned nothing new. I should note I've been pressure canning meat for 20 years. This has never happened before, so I'm in new territory.

Let me try again to explain myself;
As my thread headline suggests, the lid/cap/ring---all in one, were/are inferior. This single/fused design is doomed to fail in this pressure canning application, as:
1) The lid can only be as tightly secured as the cap; being all one unit.
2) It then becomes critical that the screw of the cap and the threads of the jar meet and work in perfect conjunction.
3) Once the rubber seal is vaccum indented (sealed), it is useless a second time and the whole unit must be tossed.

Once packed, The lid/cap/ring---all in one sealer was twisted snug onto the jar and all were inserted into the canner. All subsequent/recommended procedures were followed as I've always done successfully (with reliable 2 part rings/lids)
The canner was removed from the heat and allowed to cool before the weight was removed (note: no pressure escaped/remained in the canner).

Sometime later I cracked the canner cover to find between 2 and 4 of every 6 jars to have lost moisture and, having excessive headroom. Boiling had forced moisture out of the unsecured lid, apparently due to a failure of my initial lid tightening or simple design flaw.

When it became possible to remove all the jars (still quite hot), the lid/cap/ring---all in one was noticeably loose...had become unthreaded, would have leaked had the jar been turned upside down. I even smashed one of the first jars by trying to pick it out of the canner by the lid/cap/ring---all in one which was virtually unattached.

It was at THIS point that I re-tightened the lid/cap/ring---all in one and let the jars cool overnight. I never heard a "pop" which I love to hear,but attribute that to the poor design of the lid. It does seem slightly indented as it sits on the cooled/re-tightened jar and the jars themselves are near impossible to open by hand these many hours later.

I own and use a vacuum sealing bag tool. All indications lean towards the food remaining quite safe, unrefrigerated, even on the shelf, once the air has been sucked out. I THINK that is what happened hereAFTER a full cook.

My inclination is to believe the food was fully cooked at 15psi and the seal allowed to establish occur, but only after being removed from the canner.

Here is where I am more ignorant than anywhere else. Is the food in these re-tightened/sealed jars shelf safe or do they need to be tossed/refrigerated or frozen?

This meat will never be eaten without another full heating. Does that, as it seems to indicate on the WWW, take care of any botulism risks?

Please accept my apology for the longest forum reply I've ever written. I am confused, concerned and curious.

Kevin

 

[dragnlaw]

I would suggest that your jars are unsafe if left as is for storage. I also suggest freezing could probably make them safe at this point.

Headspace is different depending on the jars and the contents. The recipes you are following will should tell you what is the correct space.

Your loss of liquid content could possibly be due to length of time your pressure cooker remained at 15 #. In other words the contents just boiled too long! - hence the loss.

I know you said you pressured them for the allotted time and to the right pressure so if the content level was correct - then I can only assume it was the lids. Can you find new ones?

Use jar tongs to remove from pressure cooker and leave your jars to cool (on a cloth to absorb heat transfer - no cold shocks!) until able to handle with bare fingers. The lids should start to pop quickly when cooling, even with overflow. If the lids have not popped by the time they are cooled then they are not sealed.

If the lids did not go on the jars properly in the first place, then they are not going to seal after processing.


All of the above is just my humble opinion. I am not an expert.