Vindaloo, my first attempt

[giggler]

Vindaloo, my first attempt, now follow up

See my post below, or this.

I used a few small red potatos diced.
1 ripe fresh tomato diced.
1/2 lb. shrimp, peeled.
1/4 cp. water.
2 tbs. Patak Vindaloo paste from jar.

This was not at all what I expected. I'm Texan, German American and really like pretty much all food.. but this was so strange..I ate half my plate, my roomate actually ran out the front door from the smell....

I am not new to Cumin, Cardamon or chillies, so it was not that...

Is it the Tumeric or Fenugreek that gives curry that smell and flavor?

I feel sort of odd that I just really didn't like this at all.

I guess I was expecting a sort of a Mexican version of Shrimp Creole.

I need to get to an Indian buffett and see what I'm getting into here!

It was good fun though!
Thanks, Eric Austin Tx.

I am trying Vindaloo for the first time. I don't know anything about Indian food, but I am adventurous. Not having all the spices I see in the recipies, I thought I'd look for a pre-packaged "kit" to get started.

I found Patak's ready made Curry paste at my local Indian food grocery. What an interesting place just up the street from me! They make all kinds of "kits" and jars of paste..

The lable says.. Fry up one onion, then add 1/2 pound shrimp, then 1 cp. crushed can tomatoes plus a 1/4 cp. water, cook till shrimp are done, 5 min. then stir in 3-4 tbs. of Vindaloo paste from jar, serve over rice...

Does this sound OK?

I'll probably like it... but my SO is not very adventurous.. and I'm hoping it will be good enough so I can try harder next time!

Thanks, Eric, Austin, TX.

 

[Andy M.]

Eric, I can't say if you'll like it, since you've never had Indian food before, but it's simple enough to give it a try. If you find you like it, you may want to acquire the ingredients and make your own.

 

[Yakuta]

Hi Eric, Vindaloo is quite an interesting choice for someone who has not had a great deal of exposure to Indian food. The reason I say that is because it's pretty spicy (In it's authentic form).

I don't use Pathak but I am sure they are good. Next time try to make it from scratch, yes you will need to buy some whole spices but worth it since whole spices last a lot longer than ground spices.

Also authentic vindaloo does not use tomatoes. It uses lots of onions and pungent spices - cumin, corrainder, mustard, fenugreek, black peppers, cinnamon, cardamom, cloves and then uses vinegar for tartness. The curry is very thick and that's the only dish that is popular with pork as a meat choice. Most dishes in India avoid using pork and beef.

I would also suggest that if you are open to trying Indian food try with North Indian recipes first. They are milder and creamier and you might enjoy them. Some of the names of dishes you can google are:

Palak Paneer
Vegetarian Kofta Curry
Makhni Chicken
Chole

All the best.

 

[BreezyCooking]

Patak's Vindaloo paste is quite hot. I always have a jar of it on hand to turn out an impromptu Vindaloo dinner.

I do agree that if you don't like hot & spicy, this might be a bit much for a starter to Indian cuisine. But do keep in mind that if it is too hot for you, there are plenty of authentic Indian dishes with less fire.

 

[waaza]

I believe what Yakuta has said is correct. In fact, I'm surpised at a prawn vindaloo, as the spicing is meant for pork (and only pork). Contrary to what you may find on the internet, Indian food is very specific in the way the ingredients are chosen and used, so that for the vast majority of dishes, only one type of meat will do. That means , in India, most recipes are either for mutton (which in India is goat) and chicken (desi chickens are tough!) Beef outside of Kerala is water buffalo (also tough), so if you follow traditional recipes, timings are pobably going to be too long if using tender cuts.
I suggest if you want to explore Indian cookery, try a cookbook by Madur Jaffrey, she may not be the most adventurous, but she is never wrong, either (IMHO).
Just to recap, vindaloo (from a Portuguese recipe, meaning wine-vinegar and garlic) is a pork dish (actually a stew) without tomatoes or coconut, containing significant quantities of chilli (which are not Kashmiri!), but as the meat is marinated with the chillies, the heat extracted into the fat/oil/ghee produces an overall glow, rather than burn your mouth.
HTH
Waaza

 

[BreezyCooking]

To be perfectly honest - & not meaning to contradict you in the least - I've yet to come across even one Indian restaurant in either New York or Virginia that offers "pork" Vindaloo.

The traditional offering is lamb, with options for goat, chicken, or shrimp.

And again - I'm not saying this to mean you're incorrect; just saying what restaurants - good authentic restaurants - offer. In fact, I frankly can't recall any pork dishes at all being offered at any Indian restaurants I've frequented.

 

[waaza]

To be perfectly honest - & not meaning to contradict you in the least - I've yet to come across even one Indian restaurant in either New York or Virginia that offers "pork" Vindaloo.

The traditional offering is lamb, with options for goat, chicken, or shrimp.

And again - I'm not saying this to mean you're incorrect; just saying what restaurants - good authentic restaurants - offer. In fact, I frankly can't recall any pork dishes at all being offered at any Indian restaurants I've frequented.

BreezyCooking
no offence taken....
the reason that one doesn't see pork on Indian restaurant menus (outside of Goa, where vindaloo originated) is that most restaurants are either run by Muslims (from Pakistan or Bangladesh) or frequentent by same, and as we know, Muslims do not eat pork. In fact, only in Goa is pork freely available, though sold by 'pork butchers' in other Indian states.

I take it you mean the traditional offering in US (and UK) restaurants is lamb, etc. This is so, but for the reasons given, but also, there must be very few (if any) restaurants outside Goa that are run by Goans, so most of mainstream India would not have tasted vindaloo, or even heard of it. As to good authentic restaurants....are there any? even in India they are serving overspiced, heavy on the oil/cream variants.

No, vindaloo is pork, fatty pork at that, and strong pork, like wild boar that will take a strong gravy, which chicken, prawn and even lamb will not take. Horses for courses (pun intended).
cheers
Waaza

 

[Yakuta]

O.K. so here is the deal:

Vindaloo originated as Waaza indicated from Goa and that has a strong Christian foothold. The rest of India Hindu's are a majority (so Beef is a no no) and Muslims are the largest minority (so Pork is a no no).

The only people in India that eat pork are Christians and perhaps a few Hindus that are not vegetarians.

The traditional Vindaloo uses Pork and the adapted version can use any other meat the more popular choice is seafood (prawns for example) because again Goa is on the coast and seafood is available in abundance.

I just came back from India 2 weeks back and I did see Vindaloo on the menu both in Mumbai and Bangalore restaurants but again using prawns mostly and no pork.

In US you would not find Pork Vindaloo because the restaurants cater to Muslim population as well and if they have Pork on their menu they will loose all the Muslim customers. Same thing with Beef, Indian restaurants even in the West will not have beef (unless it's some upscale place that caters to the Western crowd) because they will lose the Hindu customers. In general using Beef or Pork in Indian restaurants (traditional ones) does not make good business sense to they adapt to what works - lamb, chicken and seafood.

 

[jpinmaryland]

If you are just starting out w/ indian cuisine an intermediate approach is to use the commericial sauces but add a few of the basics in the raw form.

For instance mustard seeds, you can get the brown ones, fry them up and then start your dish from there with the paste. Or get some of the tamardin paste in the base form and add work that in. or coconut milk, or make your first chutney and use that w/ the paste.

This way, if you mess up it wont be a total disaster because the biryani or the vindaloo or the curry paste will save it, but you will learn how the flavors work and the cooking techniques.

 

[waaza]

best to get an Indian cook book, that way you don't mess-up. I suggest a good book as many recipes on the net are laughable. India is very diverse, a cook from Bengal would never have (or very unlikely to have) eaten a vindaloo, or even heard of it. So unless you get a book by a very well travelled Indian author, or a less well travelled author writing on just one region, you may well end up with 'kitchen sink' curries, that is, with something of everything

Regional cooking is very specific as regards technique and ingredients. A prawn vindaloo is pointless, you just wouldn't taste the (expensive) prawns. If you want a prawn dish, try a Parsee pathia or subtle Bengali or Keralan variety, or other Goan dishes (all from coastal regions).

cheers
Waaza

 

[YT2095]

I love a good chicken vindaloo, plenty wine and garlic and Loads of chilis

you`ll know when it`s done correctly, it`ll stain the plate, make you sweat, and I`m saying Nothing about next day!

I`v never tried Pataks, I`v been fortunate to have a place that makes it for me exactly to my liking, I`m the only one in the house that can eat it however, so I get to have it very often
although my 2.75 year old daughter is up Madras curry heat and loves it.

Tindaloo if nice also, but you need to be pretty Lagered up to eat it, and Phal....
I manage about a tablespoon and then I`m begging for mercy (but still wanting more coz the smell is nice).

 

[giggler]

Vindaloo, my first attempt, now follow up

See my post below, or this.

I used a few small red potatos diced.
1 ripe fresh tomato diced.
1/2 lb. shrimp, peeled.
1/4 cp. water.
2 tbs. Patak Vindaloo paste from jar.

This was not at all what I expected. I'm Texan, German American and really like pretty much all food.. but this was so strange..I ate half my plate, my roomate actually ran out the front door from the smell....

I am not new to Cumin, Cardamon or chillies, so it was not that...

Is it the Tumeric or Fenugreek that gives curry that smell and flavor?

I feel sort of odd that I just really didn't like this at all.

I guess I was expecting a sort of a Mexican version of Shrimp Creole.

I need to get to an Indian buffett and see what I'm getting into here!

It was good fun though!
Thanks, Eric Austin Tx.

I am trying Vindaloo for the first time. I don't know anything about Indian food, but I am adventurous. Not having all the spices I see in the recipies, I thought I'd look for a pre-packaged "kit" to get started.

I found Patak's ready made Curry paste at my local Indian food grocery. What an interesting place just up the street from me! They make all kinds of "kits" and jars of paste..

The lable says.. Fry up one onion, then add 1/2 pound shrimp, then 1 cp. crushed can tomatoes plus a 1/4 cp. water, cook till shrimp are done, 5 min. then stir in 3-4 tbs. of Vindaloo paste from jar, serve over rice...

Does this sound OK?

I'll probably like it... but my SO is not very adventurous.. and I'm hoping it will be good enough so I can try harder next time!

Thanks, Eric, Austin, TX.

 

[GotGarlic]

This was not at all what I expected. I'm Texan, German American and really like pretty much all food.. but this was so strange..I ate half my plate, my roomate actually ran out the front door from the smell....

I am not new to Cumin, Cardamon or chillies, so it was not that...

Is it the Tumeric or Fenugreek that gives curry that smell and flavor?

I feel sort of odd that I just really didn't like this at all.

I guess I was expecting a sort of a Mexican version of Shrimp Creole.

I need to get to an Indian buffett and see what I'm getting into here!

I think this is an excellent idea Then you can try a variety of items and see what flavors you like. Make sure you write down the items you try and then Google them for the recipes, to see what's in them, or get an Indian food cookbook.

When you're trying flavors that are completely different from what you've grown up with, I think many people have the reaction you did. When DH was in college, he had an Indian roommate who often cooked up dishes that were completely foreign to us - the smells and the flavors. It took some time, but now we enjoy all kinds of cuisines. There just wasn't much in the way of good Indian, Thai or Japanese food around where we grew up.

So keep trying - just because you didn't like the one dish doesn't mean you won't like them all. Tandoori chicken is one I enjoy; chicken biryani is another.

btw, I'd be interested in Yakuta and wazaa's opinions of those recipes

 

[Yakuta]

Giggler, I am not sure what you mean by smell and flavor. Not all curries are pungent and hence I indicated that vindaloo is an interesting choice for someone not that familiar with Indian food.

The flavor and smell of a multitude of spices gives curry it's pungent flavor and smell. Fenugreek adds bitterness, Corrainder seeds are a bit nutty but with a spicy pungenency and cumin is nutty. In addition to that chilis add the heat and warm spices such as cardamom, cinnamon, cloves, black pepper add warmth with sweetness, turmeric adds color and does not have much in terms of taste. All that combined together and then along with a base - which can be yogurt, cream, tomato, ground nuts (almonds, cashews etc.), vinegar, just onions etc. make a curry. If you use dairy with you curry the taste and flavor will be mellow, if you use tomatoes it will be bright and full bodied and if you use just onions and vinegar it will be super pungent.

As I had indicated try to refer to North Indian recipes and give them a try and see what you think. They are milder and less pungent and maybe what your taste buds are used to.

GotGarlic - The recipes you posted are good but again if I were to nitpick they are not authentic. That does not mean it will not yield a good outcome but here are some changes I would recommend:

Tandoori Chicken - Not sure what ground ginger means (hopefully not ginger powder). Please ensure you use freshly grated ginger. Garlic is not authentic so skip it (ginger is sufficient). Ground spices (cumin and corrainder should be increased to 2 tsps each and should be freshly roasted as whole seeds and then ground and added and see what a difference it makes). Finally chicken that you should use aer thighs and legs and not breast for an authentic preparation and no onions and peppers either. I would also add some chopped cilantro in the marinade.

You normally grill onions and serve them alongside the chicken

For Biryani, it's hard to comment on the recipe as some schools of thought may think the recipe is authentic. There are so many biryani recipes out there. Given I am a Muslim and grew up on good Moghulai food that recipe does not appeal to me at alll.

I would say if you want a recipe for a good biryani and I am biased towards a lamb/goat biryani over chicken you should follow a good Hyderabadi recipe for it. I have posted a recipe that is pretty authentic. The only correction I would make is marinate the meat overnight and not for an hour. It's not enough and I like to cook my biryani once I add the rice in the oven (crank it up to 350 degrees for 30 minutes then reduce to 250 and cook for 2-3 hours).

Forgot the link but here it is -> Hyderabadi Biryani Recipe - How To Make Hyderabadi Biryani - How To Prepare Hyderabadi Biryani Recipe

 

[waaza]

I very much agree with all that Yakuta has to say. The Tandoori chicken recipe is OK, I wouldn't have thought you needed that much yoghurt or lime juice, and I wouldn't add any marinade whilst cooking, in fact there shouldn't be any left over, it should all be coating the chicken. I use a similar recipe for chicken breasts, and it works just fine. Use fresh ginger (not powder) and coriander leaf, again as Yakuta suggests. Here's a tandoori chicken breast I made earlier:



The biryani recipe is a let down, IMHO. It misses the whole point of biryani, which is a layered mix of rice and meat, usually lamb/mutton/goat/chimaera, then cooked on dum (kind of steaming) for a while so that all the flavours mix and develop. This is not a good biryani, infact I would have to say it is not a biryani at all. It may poduce an edible result, but do you want an ordinary dish, or one with a great wow factor? Biryanis are not easy to perfect, and probably reflect the amount of work that the cook is prepared to put in. Again, here is one I prepared earier (it is not traditional, but looks nice?)



Giggler: If you want to try the vindaloo again, don't use prawns/shrimp, don't add potatoes or tomatoes, (if Pataks suggested this, they obviously know nothing about how to make a vindaloo); it is a pork stew with spices, garlic, wine vinegar (or locally produced palm toddy vinegar) chillies (local conical shaped ones) and a few other ingredients, but not potatoes, tomatoes, coconut or cream or yoghurt.

Giggler, if you want to start again, I'm sure there are those amoung us that will be very willing to point you in the right direction, so that you may experiece what Indian cuisine really has to offer. If you need to use the spice paste, I'm sure we can accommodate that too, though the result won't be quite as good, IMHO


cheers
Waaza

 

[Gumbotron]

ingredients

I had a lamb vindaloo last night. Can anyone tell me what the name of the green chilis is? I want to try and make my own vindaloo from scratch but I want to use authentic ingredients. I have/can get everything but the chilis and don't want to use habaneros for this. ANy suggestions/recommendations?

 

[waaza]

Goans don't use green chillies in vindaloo, they use dry red chillies. The fresh green chilli is used as a vegetable, and is used to 'punctuate' a dish, that is, add a fiery punch. By contrast, the red chillies used in a vindaloo are mixed into the marinade. After that they are fried with the marinated meat to extract the heat components into the oil, which is mixed with water (to cover the meat chunks) and stewed. The final dish imparts an overall warm glow, rather than be punctuated by blisteringly hot chunks of green chilli.
If you cannot get the real goan chillies, try for the round ones (variety mundu, from the Portuguese mondo, meaning world) which have medium pungency, failing that, any medium pungent dry red chilli.
You are right not to use habaneros, they have a fruity flavour which, IMHO, does not go well with Indian food.
HTH
cheers
Waaza

 

[karenlyn]

I agree with the other posters here... if you find that you don't like Indian food the first time, don't give up! The first several times I tasted a curry, I really didn't like it. Then, after some time, it began to grow on me. I think many people aren't fond of it when they first try it-- if you're new to curries the flavors are so strange!

Now Indian food is my favorite thing in the world-- I eat it all the time and just LOVE it. An indian buffet sounds like a great idea (though I can't imagine the quality would be great)... it's definitely better not to give up on curry!

 

[karenlyn]

Wow, Waaza... I just took a good look at your pics. Gorgeous food!! And very well photographed, too. I just had dinner but it's enough to make my mouth water.

 

[smag]

For Tandoori chicken, Shan spice mix works okay.